Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[WingsOverTX]

This was a few years back, and in another state. I missed an 'imported jury' by a hair's breadth, but my next door neighbor was sequestered.

My child was 19 months old, hers were in elementary school.

Jury selection was from our county's juror pool, happened in our county courthouse. I was still in the room when the pool was dropped from about 300 to 46 potential jurors. 12 jurors & 4 alternates were seated.

I was relieved when she was picked instead of me!!! Another neighbor's son-in-law was also on this jury.

She was told to be dropped off at the courthouse in our county. A tour bus took them to the county of the trial. (I suppose neither county had room to park 16 cars for 3 weeks?) She was sequestered in a motel in the county of the trial, meals brought in or entire jury taken to a restaurant with a separate room for groups. At least once they had a church lady lunch near the courthouse!

The neighbor's son-in-law said it felt like Kindergarten -- they were asked to walk on the sidewalk, in pairs, with a bailiff in front of them and another behind.

She was allowed to talk to me on the phone with a deputy on the line because I was taking care of her children during the day outside of school. She told the school exactly what was happening, the kids did OK considering the situation. Dad got them dressed, I made lunches, they came to our house after school as we were all 2 blocks from the building. Homework, board games, play outside. Their Dad worked full time but did not have to travel during the three weeks she was gone. He did dinner -- sometimes we included the family in our dinner.

She was allowed to talk to the children & her husband on the phone, but not much & with the deputy on the line.

The defendant was convicted & is still in prison afaik.

What a burden on a family with young children! And on you and your family although I know you were happy to help them.

And that was a 3-week trial. This one could be longer. Who knows?

I understand the concern about an impartial jury but stress like your friend experienced could have an influence on juror performance, too.

I guess no alternative is ideal but I feel for those impaneled to decide this case.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

I don’t mean to demean the important work of the Secret Service but a retired SS agent is the last person I’d talk to. They don’t generally deal with the public, don’t ever see dead bodies or investigate murders, or come to your house when you call 911.

I know a retired SS agent who served on the Ford detail back in the day. He is a fascinating man to talk to about all sorts of LE related things the public doesn't usually hear about. Inner workings within the different LE circles, sort of thing. Just a different viewpoint, that's all.

jmo

 

[getthefax]

Yes, and what’s up with the 3 bumpy raised lines on his right jawline? Or is that just photo weirdness and wrinkled skin?

They look like gills!

 

[EllaMinnowP]

Decisions made from today’s hearing to set the stage in Delphi trial

Special Judge Fran Gull will hold a hearing in Carroll County Circuit Court Friday to listen to arguments regarding a change of venue, a permanent gag order and a defense motion that lists 29 speci…

fox59.com

[snips]
McLeland said he would not provide a statement attesting to exculpatory evidence favorable to Allen, nor a summary of the state’s opinions on statements made by Allen or witnesses,... and information about ongoing litigation by a retired Carroll County sheriff’s deputy,...

McLeland did respond affirmatively that the state would comply with a defense motion requesting, “A statement as to whether the Defendant, or any other person who participated in the alleged crime, was acting directly or indirectly at the investigation, or on behalf of the State of Indiana…”

Attorney John Tompkins, who is not involved in this case, was interviewed in the above Fox 59 article I linked to above. He lists these things as important for the defense atty to have access to: the entire investigative file, every interview that was ever done, every lead, every other suspect, what their sources of information were to see if they were trustworthy and reliable, the applications for search warrants to see if they were based on hearsay.

I'm really glad that RA's attys are on top of this. I'm bothered by the things that McL is not willing to hand over. He indicated that he thought it seemed like the defense was asking him to do their work for them; but if he did find evidence that was favorable to RA, is he justified in keeping it from RA's atty?

Responding to (colored by me) red part:
I believe prosecution IS obligated to provide every single piece of discovery to the defense regardless of whether it may be favorable to the defense.
The way I understand the BBM is that McLeland IS turning everything over, but he’s not willing to make, or provide, a statement specifically pointing out the potentially exculpatory discovery; He’s leaving that up to the defense to examine the discovery, interpret and decide for themselves what may be favorable to the defense.

As to the above bit italicized by me, I’m
VERY CURIOUS about this, and hoping to see some discussion about it here on WS.

Thanks for the very good article, it’s full of talking points, imo.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Responding to (colored by me) red part:
I believe prosecution IS obligated to provide every single piece of discovery to the defense regardless of whether it may be favorable to the defense.
The way I understand the BBM is that McLeland IS turning everything over, but he’s not willing to make, or provide, a statement specifically pointing out the potentially exculpatory discovery; He’s leaving that up to the defense to examine the discovery, interpret and decide for themselves what may be favorable to the defense.

As to the above bit italicized by me, I’m
VERY CURIOUS about this, and hoping to see some discussion about it here on WS.

Thanks for the very good article, it’s full of talking points, imo.

While prosecution may be obligated to turn over discovery, what if they don't? The defense wouldn't know if they had anything, would they?

How does the sealing of documents work? Who gets to see those docs; I know the public does not.

 

[EllaMinnowP]

From the article posted by @FrostedGlass:

McLeland said he would not provide a statement attesting to exculpatory evidence favorable to Allen, nor a summary of the state’s opinions on statements made by Allen or witnesses,[…]
and information about ongoing litigation by a retired Carroll County sheriff’s deputy, claiming he was demoted and targeted for retaliation because he offered an investigative alternative during the early days of the case that was rejected by Sheriff Tobe Leazenby.

(BBM)
I sure would like to know more about this!

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

To me he looks like some biker of a gang and pretty confident and fearless. Not a bit ashamed.

Really? Because in this screenshot from the video above, IMO, he looks scared. Whether that be scared of that specific officer or otherwise. JMO.

 

[FromGermany1]

Really? Because in this screenshot from the video above, IMO, he looks scared. Whether that be scared of that specific officer or otherwise. JMO.

I for my part am seeing, RA is staring at someone, TL perhaps. Perhaps his intense stare was meant to look evocative?

 

[girlhasnoname]

What a burden on a family with young children! And on you and your family although I know you were happy to help them.

And that was a 3-week trial. This one could be longer. Who knows?

I understand the concern about an impartial jury but stress like your friend experienced could have an influence on juror performance, too.

I guess no alternative is ideal but I feel for those impaneled to decide this case.

jmo

ITA, look what happened with the CA case in FL.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Really? Because in this screenshot from the video above, IMO, he looks scared. Whether that be scared of that specific officer or otherwise. JMO.

I'm sorry but the thought of him maybe feeling an ounce of the fear he is accused of causing Abby & Libby that day makes me feel okay. I hope he never has a happy, stress free, fun day ever again.

moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

From the article posted by @FrostedGlass:

McLeland said he would not provide a statement attesting to exculpatory evidence favorable to Allen, nor a summary of the state’s opinions on statements made by Allen or witnesses,[…]
and information about ongoing litigation by a retired Carroll County sheriff’s deputy, claiming he was demoted and targeted for retaliation because he offered an investigative alternative during the early days of the case that was rejected by Sheriff Tobe Leazenby.

(BBM)
I sure would like to know more about this!

Deputy sheriff, former candidate files lawsuit against Carroll County Sheriff

A Deputy Sheriff in Carroll County has filed a lawsuit against the Carroll County Sheriff's Department and Sheriff Tobe Leazenby.

www.wlfi.com

And

Thomas v. Carroll County, Indiana et al (2:22-cv-00309), Indiana Northern District Court

Thomas v. Carroll County, Indiana et al (2:22-cv-00309), Indiana Northern District Court, Filed: 10/25/2022

www.pacermonitor.com

 

[vinayd]

Just peeking in to catch up but can’t believe there is still doubt RA is the man. Seriously BG had no shoulders. RA takes the same form in the oversized jail coat. I don’t know many men with shoulders like that and it would stand out to me.

 

[gizmobtj]

What do you all think about the idea that there is a deal to be made with Richard Allen? We tend to think a deal is in the works with KAK or one of his family members, but what if it's the other way around? Thoughts?

 

[Gemmie]

What do you all think about the idea that there is a deal to be made with Richard Allen? We tend to think a deal is in the works with KAK or one of his family members, but what if it's the other way around? Thoughts?

That's a pretty interesting twist/take you tossed out there.

 

[gizmobtj]

I know that this is accurate but can you share a link anyway, please? When I searched on COs in Indiana I found some jurisdiction and county websites, aligning on the fact they are law enforcers and detectives, but the closest I found about criminal investigation work was how to report a poacher or hunting violation. And since they are under the DNR, I’m having trouble seeing them much more as park rangers than people who get involved in murders.

Now, as an aside, my husband and I were once at Whitewater State Park in southern Minnesota when everyone was evacuated down from the trails because a prison escapee was up in the bluffs (we had seen him up there but didn’t know he was a criminal yet!) As we came down, there were all kinds of responders herding people out, and if memory serves, they were mostly the park rangers. Of course, this is an irrelevant OT story I’m telling for the memory, but I’d think anywhere, whether park police are part of LE or DNR or both, they serve and protect in any situation they are called to do so.

If it mirrors the federal system, like the National Park Service, there would be two main types -- law enforcement rangers and general rangers. But, that said, i think there is only one person responsible for follow through on tips -- and thats the lead investigator, whomever that is. You cant expect every ancillary officer who is not on a case to know whether a tip was followed through on, why it may or may not have been and why someone is excluded or included as a suspect. And I can't imagine the investigators on any case have the time to fill in every investigator who offered a tip or did an interview

 

[Sleuth2010]

Deputy sheriff, former candidate files lawsuit against Carroll County Sheriff

A Deputy Sheriff in Carroll County has filed a lawsuit against the Carroll County Sheriff's Department and Sheriff Tobe Leazenby.

www.wlfi.com

And

Thomas v. Carroll County, Indiana et al (2:22-cv-00309), Indiana Northern District Court

Thomas v. Carroll County, Indiana et al (2:22-cv-00309), Indiana Northern District Court, Filed: 10/25/2022

www.pacermonitor.com

IMO JMO MOO it is terrible, when a case as severe and serious as this, turns into law enforcement tearing one another apart

 

[gizmobtj]

That's a pretty interesting twist/take you tossed out there.

There is something about all the squishness in this case - the felony murder charge (i.e. alleging that RA committed a felony that  led to a murder), the comments about others being involved, the way the attornys on both sides interact, the demeanor of RA - that screams we are in for some kind of twist

 

[TTF14]

What do you all think about the idea that there is a deal to be made with Richard Allen? We tend to think a deal is in the works with KAK or one of his family members, but what if it's the other way around? Thoughts?

Who do you mean by "we?" I don't disagree, at all, just wondering who you mean.

 

[TTF14]

IMO JMO MOO it is terrible, when a case as severe and serious as this, turns into law enforcement tearing one another apart

Well, maybe it's justified.

 

[EllaMinnowP]

Deputy sheriff, former candidate files lawsuit against Carroll County Sheriff

A Deputy Sheriff in Carroll County has filed a lawsuit against the Carroll County Sheriff's Department and Sheriff Tobe Leazenby.

www.wlfi.com

And

Thomas v. Carroll County, Indiana et al (2:22-cv-00309), Indiana Northern District Court

Thomas v. Carroll County, Indiana et al (2:22-cv-00309), Indiana Northern District Court, Filed: 10/25/2022

www.pacermonitor.com

Thank you very much for sharing the links!

The ‘retired’ sheriff’s deputy seems to have been pushed out due to political reasons ultimately (imo) but turmoil may have been building ever since he suggested bringing in experts early-on to assist with A&L’s homicide investigation. I still don’t know what sort of experts he had suggested/ which aspect of the investigation he thought warranted outside experts. Maybe we will know that info pretty soon. There’s more I’d like to discuss about it, but I’m afraid that -for now at least- it’s getting a little OT from A&L’s thread. Maybe Thomas v. Carroll County, Indiana should have a thread of its own.

Before now, I’d heard chatter about this, but hadn’t seen any MSN reports. I’m not sure how I missed it, but I really appreciate you bringing it forward, along with the actual Court case information. Thanks again!