Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[Trebor5591]

sadly though most sexual/sadists are repeat offenders and usually don't start out stalking and murdering at 45 years old.

chances are high he has other victims. mOO

I am aware of no evidence that RA is a "sexual/sadist". Perhaps that is your speculation? Who knows, you may be right.

And yes, I agree that murderers don't start out stalking and murdering at age 45--which is why some are open to the idea that RA--married to his HS sweetheart, a father and with no criminal history--might be the wrong guy.

But if he is the murderer of Abby and Libby, I pray there is more evidence than is presented so far. The strongest evidence is the bullet found at the murder scene, because none of the eyewitnesses that day can identify him--all they can say is that they saw someone dressed similar to how RA described his own attire that day.

The search warrant for RL said that some of the girl's clothing was missing--if the police found that during the search of his residence, that would remove all doubt, in my opinion.

If RA is the murderer, I hope he is convicted and sentenced to death--but there needs to be stronger evidence. I am praying for justice for Abby and Libby.

 

[Boxer]

I am aware of no evidence that RA is a "sexual/sadist". Perhaps that is your speculation? Who knows, you may be right.

And yes, I agree that murderers don't start out stalking and murdering at age 45--which is why some are open to the idea that RA--married to his HS sweetheart, a father and with no criminal history--might be the wrong guy.

But if he is the murderer of Abby and Libby, I pray there is more evidence than is presented so far. The strongest evidence is the bullet found at the murder scene, because none of the eyewitnesses that day can identify him--all they can say is that they saw someone dressed similar to how RA described his own attire that day.

The search warrant for RL said that some of the girl's clothing was missing--if the police found that during the search of his residence, that would remove all doubt, in my opinion.

If RA is the murderer, I hope he is convicted and sentenced to death--but there needs to be stronger evidence. I am praying for justice for Abby and Libby.

It’s a strong case right now. The defense is going to assail the tool marks on the round. Tool
marks are very strong evidence so MOO it’s going to go the prosecutions way.

 

[Salah11]

sadly though most sexual/sadists are repeat offenders and usually don't start out stalking and murdering at 45 years old.

chances are high he has other victims. mOO

It’s never been confirmed there is a sexual nature to this crime. It’s likely but it’s certainly not a given and there are cases where somebody has committed a crime and not committed a crime before.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

1 people from your residence. I mean all, all that hundred percent sure. We know
2 it. We know if for fact.

MOO Seriously, LE making this statement in an interrogation is the most basic, overused bluff ever!
It doesn't matter how many times the transcript is read, posted, or debated, the fact is that almost 6 years have passed and LE has not found evidence to charge KAK with any crime related to the murders.
KAK's charges are no less significant because he isn't shown to be a murderer, and it certainly isn't defending him, in any way, to point out that an interrogation is not evidencing that he was involved.

 

[getthefax]

Almost right. Your description is more like a misfire rather than a jam. If the gun jams, the bullet does not enter the chamber, and so the firing pin never strikes the bullet. When the operator racks the slide one or more times, the jammed bullet is ejected onto the ground. My opinion!

Thank you. Either way, the bullet remains technically unspent. MOO

 

[MissUnderstood]

Mentioning the purple PT cruiser and man in black in the PCA does imply there was someone else there. Why mention those two things if not related to RA. We know what car he was in and what he was wearing. Why is this purple car and man in black taking up space in the PCA if not significant in some way. It’s my understanding the PCA needs enough evidence stated to get a judge to sign off on an arrest. A purple car and man in black is obviously not RA, so who is it?

 

[Boxer]

Mentioning the purple PT cruiser and man in black in the PCA does imply there was someone else there. Why mention those two things if not related to RA. We know what car he was in and what he was wearing. Why is this purple car and man in black taking up space in the PCA if not significant in some way. It’s my understanding the PCA needs enough evidence stated to get a judge to sign off on an arrest. A purple car and man in black is obviously not RA, so who is it?

Purple car is one thing.
But the the man in black is RA.
Black clothing is how one of the three girls RA passed on the trail remember him.
The other two girls remember him wearing blue jeans and blue jacket. RA confirmed he passed the three girls and that he was wearing blue jeans and blue jacket.

 

[Megnut]

Purple car is one thing.
But the the man in black is RA.
Black clothing is how one of the three girls RA passed on the trail remember him.
The other two girls remember him wearing blue jeans and blue jacket. RA confirmed he passed the three girls and that he was wearing blue jeans and blue jacket.

The purple car....

If this was a planned abduction, with multiple players, maybe the driver of the purple car was on speed dial to transport the (cat)fish RA caught.

JMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

RA is tied to the murders by the totality of evidence. LE clearly have a lot more than the gun.

We don't know what they have. We'll all just have to wait and see.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

In reference to the ejected round found on the ground.

Pictures will seal the deal on it matching his gun.

Jmo

Pictures??

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I am aware of no evidence that RA is a "sexual/sadist". Perhaps that is your speculation? Who knows, you may be right.

And yes, I agree that murderers don't start out stalking and murdering at age 45--which is why some are open to the idea that RA--married to his HS sweetheart, a father and with no criminal history--might be the wrong guy.

But if he is the murderer of Abby and Libby, I pray there is more evidence than is presented so far. The strongest evidence is the bullet found at the murder scene, because none of the eyewitnesses that day can identify him--all they can say is that they saw someone dressed similar to how RA described his own attire that day.

The search warrant for RL said that some of the girl's clothing was missing--if the police found that during the search of his residence, that would remove all doubt, in my opinion.

If RA is the murderer, I hope he is convicted and sentenced to death--but there needs to be stronger evidence. I am praying for justice for Abby and Libby.

Very well said!

 

[everybodhi]

Let me preface this by the fact that I feel, sometimes, some people intrepert those of us who doubt the strength of the prosecution's case are not interested in justice for Abby and Libby. Justice for Abby and Libby is about having the right person and having a strong case against them. For me, questioning the case is because I want justice.


To answer your question, they absolutely do not show that KAK is guilty of conspiracy or even any crime related to Abby snd Libby; just contact and catfishing.

As for the Alito ruling, the South Carolina case and law had to do with forensic evidence but the Supreme Court ruled on all third party evidence of guilt evidence. The ruling was that the strength of a prosecutor's case had no logical relationship to whether a defendant's evidence was too weak to be admissible.

They interupted the Compulsory Process Clause of the Sixth Amendment and the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as saying that "a meaningful opportunity to present a complete defense" had nothing to do with the strength of the prosecution's case, as was being argued on this thread.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/qp/04-01327qp.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjCp4iPj5P8AhUrEFkFHW9FBHQQFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3TRQiUyosOltOg3c-Vg3h7

The question is merely whether KAK or a KAK theory is enough to raise doubt that a jury could find reasonable.

You can put the "first sketch is not a POI anymore" stuff in the same bucket. If the RA defense can use that to say there was a second guy out there, they could sow doubt.

https://www.wrtv.com/isp-person-in-first-delphi-sketch-is-not-a-person-of-interest-in-libby-abbys-murders%3f_amp=true

The prosecution case, from this stuff, to the science around the casing and second actor, is just a mess in my opinion.

Holmes

Well said!

I read in depth about those appeal cases after I posted, they are pretty wild.
The one was Alito’s first ruling as a Supreme Court justice and came as a surprise to many because he ruled in favor of the defendant.
He was convicted on DNA which was highly questionable because he worked there before the murder.
And the court ruled inadmissible several witnesses including the other suspect who bragged to several people about committing the crime but allowed witnesses for the prosecution who changed their story regarding identifying him.
And in the other case, the prosecution offered $100,000 to the wife (during their divorce) to testify against his alibi and she turned them down. There were also photos of him at an event during the murder and that’s just a little side note of the wrongs done to convict him.
Their appeals were rightly upheld imo.
I agree, the case against Allen looks messy, it will be interesting to see where this goes.
I hope they have the evidence and A and L finally get long awaited justice.

 

[Counttrarian]

Motive?

 

[katydid23]

Motive?

RA's motive?

If it is true that he had the girls undress, and he kidnapped them at gunpoint, then the motive could be as simple as the sexual/emotional gratification that comes from scaring and controlling hostages and then killing them.

 

[al66pine]

Did RA Ever Lend his Gun to Anyone?

Does it Matter why the bullet was there?
The fact is it was there and he admitted he had never loaned his gun to anybody. It places him slap bang in the middle of two dead bodies.

@Salah11 Yes, bullet seems to to put RA at murder scene as being The Perp. He can walk back his "no loan" stmt to LE.

Poss'ty at trial?
1. If RA testifies: Sure, I told LE in fall 2022, no loan of gun, but oops, I forgot I had loaned gun to Rumplestiltskin in early 2017. Just completely slipped my mind, cause he returned it a couple weeks later like he said he would.
2. Wife or dau. testifies: One day in 2016, I came home and found front door open, & my jewelry box in bedroom was jumbled up, Grandma's cameo broach was missing, blah blah. But we did not make a police report because (lame excuse). Plus some other testimony. Def atty in closing argument: gun was stolen then, burglar returned later to same closet from which he took it, that's why LE located gun pursuant to S/Wt in fall 2022.

If def. firm or friend of def't is reading here, worry not. This post is not "giving them any ideas." They've already thought of these plus more.
imo jmo moo

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Mentioning the purple PT cruiser and man in black in the PCA does imply there was someone else there.

Purple car is one thing.

If this was a planned abduction, with multiple players, maybe the driver of the purple car was on speed dial to transport the (cat)fish RA caught.

I'm not seeing where anyone said there was more than one car parked at the former CPS building and the PC affidavit certainly describes that all 3 witnesses were believed to have seen the same vehicle and that all three probably saw RA's 2016 Ford Focus, parked in a specific location, and in a specific manner (backed in).
One witness said that he observed "a purple PT Cruiser OR a small SUV-type vehicle", per LE, in the affidavit, parked at the CPS building, backed in. To me, it is obvious that the witness is not positive which make/model it was.

The purple car has now become an additional car parked/backed in at the CPS building? And the description is being given attention for what reason?

In my opinion, it's due to online rumors and internet sleuths' discussions of unverified information and it is not a valid reason to assert that there was a second vehicle, supposedly driven by a "catfishing" accomplice. LE has never said a purple vehicle or any 2nd vehicle, was there or seen parked in the area of the CPS building.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

"Investigators note witnesses described the vehicle parked at the former Child Protective Services Building as PTCruiser; small SUV or "Smart" car Investigators believe those descriptions are similar in nature to a 2016 Ford Focus"

(witness name) "advised when she was leaving she noted a vehicle was parked in an odd manner at the old Child Protective Services building. She said it was not odd for vehicles to be parked there but she noticed it was odd because of the manner it was parked, backed in near the building."
(witness said) "on February 13, 2017, he observed a purple PT Cruiser or a small SUV-type vehicle. (Witness) stated it appeared as though it was backed in as to conceal the license plate of the vehicle. Both drew diagrams of where they marked the vehicle parked and their diagrams generally matched as to the area the vehicle was parked and the manner in which it was parked."
(another witness) "advised he remembered seeing a smaller dark-colored car parked at the old CPS building. He described it as possibly being a "smart" car."

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Let me preface this by the fact that I feel, sometimes, some people intrepert those of us who doubt the strength of the prosecution's case are not interested in justice for Abby and Libby. Justice for Abby and Libby is about having the right person and having a strong case against them. For me, questioning the case is because I want justice.


To answer your question, they absolutely do not show that KAK is guilty of conspiracy or even any crime related to Abby snd Libby; just contact and catfishing.

As for the Alito ruling, the South Carolina case and law had to do with forensic evidence but the Supreme Court ruled on all third party evidence of guilt evidence. The ruling was that the strength of a prosecutor's case had no logical relationship to whether a defendant's evidence was too weak to be admissible.

They interupted the Compulsory Process Clause of the Sixth Amendment and the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment as saying that "a meaningful opportunity to present a complete defense" had nothing to do with the strength of the prosecution's case, as was being argued on this thread.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/qp/04-01327qp.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjCp4iPj5P8AhUrEFkFHW9FBHQQFnoECCsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3TRQiUyosOltOg3c-Vg3h7

The question is merely whether KAK or a KAK theory is enough to raise doubt that a jury could find reasonable.

You can put the "first sketch is not a POI anymore" stuff in the same bucket. If the RA defense can use that to say there was a second guy out there, they could sow doubt.

https://www.wrtv.com/isp-person-in-first-delphi-sketch-is-not-a-person-of-interest-in-libby-abbys-murders%3f_amp=true

The prosecution case, from this stuff, to the science around the casing and second actor, is just a mess in my opinion.

Holmes

Excellent post on all counts!!!

 

[gregjrichards]

Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukkah/Happy Holidays to you all. Abby and Libby’s loved ones continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. I cannot imagine how hard it must be for them to face each day and holidays like Christmas Day without them.I am so glad that the individual who has allegedly taken the lives of Abby and Libby and who has caused them unimaginable heartbreak, pain, suffering and devastation is spending Christmas Day behind bars where he belongs.

It is a relief that the girl’s loved ones are not spending yet another Christmas Day with nobody arrested. Hopefully if he is convicted and found guilty (I hope and believe he will be) he will be spending every Christmas Day for the rest of his life in jail. Last Christmas he may have felt smug and in disbelief that he was spending another Christmas Day free and wrongly believed he may actually have gotten away with what he has allegedly done.

 

[Soulmagent]

It’s never been confirmed there is a sexual nature to this crime. It’s likely but it’s certainly not a given and there are cases where somebody has committed a crime and not committed a crime before.

No ,but it has always been the implied motive.

 

[Elley Mae]

Pictures??

Yes Pictures.

At trial there will be pictures/images of the ejected round found on the ground and pictures of a like round that was ejected from same (RA) weapon to show a match. Like a fingerprint.

Jmo