Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[steeltowngirl]

Tried to review some LE-provided information regarding the crime scene w/o speculation.
What do we know from LE reports/statements to public or to the press, and to what degree of detail? Made myself a list of LE-sourced information (I think - feel free to correct), but I may not have the degree of detail that LE provided on said information. (A lot to review/catch up/distill; it's a long case record.) Sharing what I think are LE-info shared w/ public highlights here - fellow WS folks here are welcome to fix it.

a) bodies moved after death (any LE details re: distance between discovered bodies vs murder site)
b) crime scene "staged" (any LE details as to particulars of the "staging"? "staged" can mean a few things. DId LE specify details: Is staged here = "posed" ? Or is staged = moved in effort to conceal.)
c) trophies were taken (LE specified if taken from crime scene? Clothing v hair v photos v other)
d) ejected bullet at crime scene 2 ft from discovered bodies.
e) evidence exists from crime scene in form of non-victim DNA (is this DNA evidence partial?)
f) evidence from crime scene of non-victim fibers (do fibers match RA search product & BG video?)
g) statement that some of victims' clothing missing vs. clothing recovered @ crime scene (any specifics?).
h) disclosure that some of victim's clothing found in creek vs w/ bodies. (any specifics?)
i) evidence suggests absence of sexual assault/rape of victims
j) BG video evidence on victim's phone
k) Witness evidence: Other hiker/walkers on trail describe passing man matching BG-video figure on man on trail; Driver on 300 witnesses side of road - muddy & bloody clothing on roadside pedestrian. All witness timelines line up.
l) Vehicle witness(es) describe dark car parked reversed-in @ former CPS bldg. Timeline match.
m) RA's 2016 Ford Focus owned at time of crime and "similar" to witness description above.
n) 2016 interview w/ RA - RA confirms he parked his vehicle at the location of CPS building.
o) digital evidence as to pedophilia catfishing social media HAD engaged w/ one of the victims and HAD arranged a meetup at the park location that day/time, etc (although, no LE specifics linking this digital/social media activity, or that social media group to RA?)
p) 2022 interview(s) w/ RA about AFTER LE revisited RA 2016 interview & crime scene bullet matched a gun RA owned. (any specifics comparing consistency of the 2016 and 2022 interviews?)
q) confirmation that cause of death and bloody crime scene was likely from attacks with sharp blade instrument
r) 2022 interview RA describes what he wore for his 2017 hike. In 2022, he describes himself dressed as BG video subject is dressed.
s) RA wife says RA still owns blue Carhart jacket (from PCA - but is it same jacket RA had in 2017?)
t) LE witness reports (RA) walking down 300 with CLOTHES that were "muddy and bloody".
u) No LE witness reports seeing RA returning from walk using trail.
v) knives taken from RA home upon search
w) bullet forensics - is "crucial" evidence (per court docs)

- What crime scene info above was released to public as part of LE plea to public for more leads?

- Has LE addressed/confirmed (victim's Family assertion) RA personally helped family at CVS with victim photos after the fact? (Could "trophy" include RA keeping copy of these family photos?)

- As part of investigation, has LE located the 2016 Ford Focus? Any LE mention of vehicle forensics (LE running forensic testing on RA's 2016 Ford Focus)?

- Any LE mention of clothing forensics on RA clothing recovered at RA home?

- Has LE disclosed results of RA's residence/property search other than what was described in the redacted probable cause affidavit?

- Has LE publicly confirmed death by knife wounds?

-

For item ‘g’ only (clothing). It was mentioned in RL’s PCA, pg 3 and also in RA’s PCA pg 2.

The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”

FBI agent: Bodies 'moved and staged' in Delphi murders, suspect took clothing

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Investigators believe the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were “moved and staged” at the Delphi murder scene, according to court documents obtained by I-Team 8. READ: See the court documents The revelation is included in a nine-page request for a search warrant...

www.wishtv.com

And a photographer saw the clothing in the creek

“From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby."

J Kyle Keener

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

 

[Emma Peel]

For item ‘g’ only (clothing). It was mentioned in RL’s PCA, pg 3 and also in RA’s PCA pg 2.

The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”

FBI agent: Bodies 'moved and staged' in Delphi murders, suspect took clothing

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Investigators believe the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were “moved and staged” at the Delphi murder scene, according to court documents obtained by I-Team 8. READ: See the court documents The revelation is included in a nine-page request for a search warrant...

www.wishtv.com

And a photographer saw the clothing in the creek

“From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby."

J Kyle Keener

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

Thank you for this addn'l info!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Murder Sheet

An order was filed with the Indiana Supreme Court on Feb. 15. From May 1, 2023, the Court may allow TV news stations to broadcast certain cases. The new order states:

“The judge has discretion to approve or deny a request for broadcast of a court proceeding. If the judge allows broadcast, the Judge’s discretion to interrupt or stop the coverage if he or she deems the interruption or stoppage appropriate. The Judge also has discretion to limit or terminate broadcast by a news media organisation at any time during the proceeding”.

”All civil and criminal proceedings are eligible for broadcast by the news media except for proceedings closed to the public either by State statute or Indiana Supreme Court Rules. No broadcast of a court proceeding is allowed without authorisation from the Judge. All authorised broadcast coverage of a court proceeding must comply with the Indiana Rules of Professional Conduct and the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct. The Judge must prohibit media broadcasts of minors, juvenile delinquency and child in need of services matters, victims of violent offences, sex offences and domestic abuse, jurors, attorney-client communications, bench conferences and materials on counsel tables and judicial bench, the Judge’s discretion to deny broadcast coverage of a witness for safety concerns”.

Bearing in mind the huge media and public interest in this case, hopefully Judge Gull will allow RA’s trial to be televised. Aine and Kevin are left wondering whether they will be considered news media journalists and whether podcasters and YouTubers will be included in the definition of news media.

The public, worldwide, has been more than patient for 6 years and I’d like to think that the Judge will agree that the public now has a right to know what has been happening.

 

[mrjitty]

Bearing in mind the huge media and public interest in this case, hopefully Judge Gull will allow RA’s trial to be televised. Aine and Kevin are left wondering whether they will be considered news media journalists and whether podcasters and YouTubers will be included in the definition of news media.

RSBM - I also skimmed this as I wanted to see if they would discuss the bail hearing. Kevin said only that it was very unusual to leave the client in jail 8 months before conducting the bail hearing and that it was scheduled for 2 days which is quite long. So perhaps this is being set up more as a faux prelim from the defense POV? A chance to have a run at sum of the evidence in detail?

 

[Falling Down]

RSBM - I also skimmed this as I wanted to see if they would discuss the bail hearing. Kevin said only that it was very unusual to leave the client in jail 8 months before conducting the bail hearing and that it was scheduled for 2 days which is quite long. So perhaps this is being set up more as a faux prelim from the defense POV? A chance to have a run at sum of the evidence in detail?

Two days have been set aside for the hearing, not a two-day bail hearing. That way if something comes up they have one more day to have the actual hearing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I believe this is the first time since Feb. 25, 2017 that I came to this case and found no postings since the prior day.

Lots of stuff going on in other cases right now. I've been over my head in the Murdaugh trial the past few weeks. I'm glad it's finally winding down.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630915390325833729

Investigators looking into possible link between Stephenson murders and Delphi case

Boone County investigators were recently in northern Indiana looking into the tip.

www.fox19.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630915390325833729

Investigators looking into possible link between Stephenson murders and Delphi case

Boone County investigators were recently in northern Indiana looking into the tip.

www.fox19.com

From your link (it's not linked to RA):

“There’s things that will make you really interested in a case, simply more than just somebody saying, ‘Hey, we we think this person might have been involved.’ But we had a little piece of information that really made that case specifically interesting to us,” Cox said.

The information pointed Boone County investigators toward a specific person who had a specific item they were interested in.

“I’m not going to tell you about what that item was,” Cox said. “We’ve recently been in the northern part of Indiana, investigating this guy, following him around, looking for things, collecting all of the information and evidence that we would need to at least vet him as best we could with our case. He was cooperative... We were able to go down that path with him, and he articulated good reason to why that [item] may have existed.”

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I saw information about the possible Stephenson/Delphi connection and I dismissed it as a news story teaser gone rogue. Then I read the article and kinda thought the same thing, until I got to the Delphi part, and I’m not sure what to make of it now.
If this case was not insane, I wouldn’t give it another thought., but look what we’ve been through already. Add in that I have no confidence in Indiana LE and well…I just don’t know.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I saw information about the possible Stephenson/Delphi connection and I dismissed it as a news story teaser gone rogue. Then I read the article and kinda thought the same thing, until I got to the Delphi part, and I’m not sure what to make of it now.
If this case was not insane, I wouldn’t give it another thought., but look what we’ve been through already. Add in that I have no confidence in Indiana LE and well…I just don’t know.

This paragraph from the article especially caught my eye:

“There were things that were done to their bodies that, that was horrific... They changed several things in the scene, which is really, really unusual for any murder scene anywhere in the country or in the world,” Cox said. “There was quite a bit of time that the perpetrators, the killers, stayed in the residence or felt comfortable coming back to the scene.”

 

[raja]

this is a head spinner. What item would someone have 11 years later related to the crime in Ky?

 

[Hope32]

this is a head spinner. What item would someone have 11 years later related to the crime in Ky?

I mean perpetrators killers keep the oddest trophies to remember their crimes. \_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TL4S]

From your link (it's not linked to RA):

“There’s things that will make you really interested in a case, simply more than just somebody saying, ‘Hey, we we think this person might have been involved.’ But we had a little piece of information that really made that case specifically interesting to us,” Cox said.

The information pointed Boone County investigators toward a specific person who had a specific item they were interested in.

“I’m not going to tell you about what that item was,” Cox said. “We’ve recently been in the northern part of Indiana, investigating this guy, following him around, looking for things, collecting all of the information and evidence that we would need to at least vet him as best we could with our case. He was cooperative... We were able to go down that path with him, and he articulated good reason to why that [item] may have existed.”

Florence, KY to Delphi, IN is only 3 hours apart, so proximity doesn't seem implausible. What a strange connection, though! Very curious where this will go. Nov. 2022 was a very busy time, and it was during that time that NMcL told the court they thought there were other actors involved.

 

[Emma Peel]

from same article re KY murders:

Investigators looking into possible link between Stephenson murders and Delphi case

Cox said they sent what they found to Indiana State Police, since that is the agency handling Abby and Libby’s murder case.

To be clear, Cox says their investigation into a potential link between the two cases did not include Richard Allen. When Boone County detectives were in Delphi, Allen was already in jail, where he has been since October 2022, accused in the murders of Abby and Libby.

“We received information from Indiana as it related to some persons and we forwarded that to them... We did not send them the information that led them to Richard Allen. We sent them information that may have had some parallel consistencies with where they are with that case right now,” Cox said. “I know that sounds a little cloak and dagger, but I’m just sorry about that. We’re not getting farther with that.”

My goodness, this KY-Delhi "interest" article is a bunch of ... gobbledygook.

"item" of interest

"not info that led them to RA"

"parallel consistencies with where they are with that case right now"

**************

if there's any connection ... all I might glean from this gobbledygook is that someone (LE-related) contacted KY w/ Delhi facts known to LE and ... they are comparing facts between the 2 crimes ... somehow????

But even that gleaning is a stretch looking through a thick fog in the middle of the night without benefit of night vision glasses. (can't even be sure if it's fog I'm looking at or ... just night)

 

[TL4S]

from same article re KY murders:

Investigators looking into possible link between Stephenson murders and Delphi case




My goodness, this KY-Delhi "interest" article is a bunch of ... gobbledygook.

"item" of interest

"not info that led them to RA"

"parallel consistencies with where they are with that case right now"

**************

if there's any connection ... all I might glean from this gobbledygook is that someone (LE-related) contacted KY w/ Delhi facts known to LE and ... they are comparing facts between the 2 crimes ... somehow????

But even that gleaning is a stretch looking through a thick fog in the middle of the night without benefit of night vision glasses. (can't even be sure if it's fog I'm looking at or ... just night)

If this article is accurate, then it seems there was someone connecting Delphi to the KY case due to a specific item that could be tied to a specific person. It appears, per the article, that KY LE followed and spoke with that specific person. Am I reading that correctly? What's interesting is the timing, IMO. Nov. 2022...

 

[FrostedGlass]

from same article re KY murders:

Investigators looking into possible link between Stephenson murders and Delphi case




My goodness, this KY-Delhi "interest" article is a bunch of ... gobbledygook.

"item" of interest

"not info that led them to RA"

"parallel consistencies with where they are with that case right now"

**************

if there's any connection ... all I might glean from this gobbledygook is that someone (LE-related) contacted KY w/ Delhi facts known to LE and ... they are comparing facts between the 2 crimes ... somehow????

But even that gleaning is a stretch looking through a thick fog in the middle of the night without benefit of night vision glasses. (can't even be sure if it's fog I'm looking at or ... just night)

I had to laugh at your gobbledygook. I went on a little mental rant after reading this quote below. Can't they ever just say what they mean?

"We were able to go down that path with him, and he articulated good reason to why that [item] may have existed.”

 

[M. Kay]

If this article is accurate, then it seems there was someone connecting Delphi to the KY case due to a specific item that could be tied to a specific person. It appears, per the article, that KY LE followed and spoke with that specific person. Am I reading that correctly? What's interesting is the timing, IMO. Nov. 2022...

I'm intrigued about this; yes, or maybe just more desperate to jam a piece of the puzzle in, even if it is not fitting exactly. However, the word 'specific' for both the item and the person I agree is more of interest with the timing. (Point taken about Law Enforcement's tiresome hifalutin way with language.)

 

[Gemmie]

For item ‘g’ only (clothing). It was mentioned in RL’s PCA, pg 3 and also in RA’s PCA pg 2.

The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”

FBI agent: Bodies 'moved and staged' in Delphi murders, suspect took clothing

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Investigators believe the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were “moved and staged” at the Delphi murder scene, according to court documents obtained by I-Team 8. READ: See the court documents The revelation is included in a nine-page request for a search warrant...

www.wishtv.com

And a photographer saw the clothing in the creek

“From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby."

J Kyle Keener

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

You know... I've always wondered about this part:

The document says authorities also found that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered.

and

And a photographer saw the clothing in the creek <snip>

“From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek

What I've wondered since I saw that photographer's statement a while back is ... Does that really mean RA took the 2 articles of clothing? To me it just feels like an assumption due to the rest of the clothing recovered from the creek. "Therefore he must have taken them". Perhaps the 2 articles moved downstream and simply haven't been found. Sure, he could have taken them, but then again, they could have moved through the water and simply not been found.

Now, if those 2 articles from one of the girls were her panties and bra... as opposed to a sock and a shirt or pants (not intimate items)... I'd sway from 50/50 that it could be souvenirs/simply not found... to something more like 95/5 souvenirs/simply not found. Both items being intimate items would sway me a lot more than simply "2 item".

With that said... has it been posted which items were found? I apologize if this has been rehashed a bazillion times and I've forgotten.

 

[Yemelyan]

Florence, KY to Delphi, IN is only 3 hours apart, so proximity doesn't seem implausible. What a strange connection, though! Very curious where this will go. Nov. 2022 was a very busy time, and it was during that time that NMcL told the court they thought there were other actors involved.

Just for the heck of it, here's some interesting facts about the Stephenson murders:

Two victims
Both bludgeoned and stabbed
"Bizarre" scene
Bodies posed
Every room in the house where the murder took place was staged
Items moved around
Killer(s) either stayed at the scene for hours or returned at some point
There was a postmortem injury inflicted on one of the victims
There was a message of some kind left by the killer(s)
There is unknown DNA from the scene, but it is unsuitable for genetic genealogy (sounds like it is a mixed profile from two or more persons but that's just my interpretation)
Motive is confusing to investigators due to the staging
The killer(s) staged photographs at the scene
"There's a lot about this scene you wouldn't believe"

Info from this article: Backstory: Detective vows brutal slayings of Florence couple won't go unsolved

Crazy thought but all the LE talk about a parallel investigation to Delphi makes me wonder if the specific item they wanted their POI to explain the existence of was photographic in nature.

 

[raja]

ok they received info from Indiana that related to some persons and they related that to Indiana. That info did not lead to LE’s arrest of RA since he was already in custody. Someone was followed around and contacted about an (item) and explained why they had it. So that person was not incarcerated at the time right. Or could they have followed around a “trail” of an incarcerated person. I agree the timing is interesting. Could someone be trying to direct attention away from RA? Talk about confusing. Is the item one of the reasons for the secrecy around discovery?