IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[FrostedGlass]

His legal team asks for him to be moved without a hearing so I don’t think that’s an issue.

What I do question, if they’re concerned about RA, how do they expect him to “assist his legal team in addressing his mental health concerns“?

BBM

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ALLEN-MOVE-PRISON-REQUEST.pdf

20. Attorney Rozzi believes an emergency exists and time is of the essence based upon the dramatic change in Mr. Allen's condition, including his change in demeanor, change in appearance, and change in his overall mental health status, and respectfully requests that this Honorable Court modify the Safekeeping Order (as permitted by LC. 35-33-11-1) and order Richard Allen to be transported and housed at the Cass County jail or somewhere nearer to his family and lawyers, and to do so without a hearing, or (in the alternative) to conduct a hearing as soon as possible before Mr. Allen is placed in further jeopardy due to his current placement, and also so that Mr. Allen may assist his lawyers in addressing Mr. Allen's mental health concerns as well as allowing Mr. Allen to participate in the preparation of his defense, and for all proper and just relief in the premises.”

His team issued an emergency motion; NAL but I would assume that may skirt the hearing.

 

[Boxer]

I truly hope he is not being mistreated and I would think he could be closer to his attorneys to help with his defense. This is still America and he is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty which IMHO he most likely is. I think more details need to be known at this time. Don’t throw tomatoes at me.

I agree. A bed, mealsp

If moving RA closer to his attorneys makes things run a little better for them, have at it. Maybe the trial will come quicker.
What I have a problem with is lawyers filing motions for public consumption with fantastical exaggerations, playing for sympathy, playing on emotions, misrepresenting things. (see Murdaugh trial).
They could just as easily filed for his transfer without mentioning dog kennels, or their dispicable referenced to POWs among other things. Straight forward and to the point, but they chose not to. I believe we have found the Indiana equivalent to Harpootlian.
The proof of their strategy is the fact that they claim RA’s mental health is declining to the the point where he is schizophrenic and delusional, yet not once do they request a medical intervention of ANY kind.

Right. Just emotions, no actual attorney work.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think we’re forgetting RA was moved to a State facility for his own protection. Had he been violently attacked, well what then, more blame.

The defence was appointed last November and suddenly if it’s all about convenience for preparing a defence why wasn’t that an issue at the onset? Both parties are in the same place as they were back then.

I’d speculate there’s another reason behind this motion and it’s connected with consultation, that is to gauge the public perception and support toward RA alone now that the public wrath toward KAK being the instigator is lessening.

JMO

I may have missed it but I've never seen any reports of people threatening RA's life. Surely Leazenby would have stated that in his motion to move RA. He stated due to the high profile and media coverage, potential of safety and security concerns for the defendant, the staff and facility.

Since the document became no longer available to the public, we probably could assume it was never meant to be seen by the public. So no public gauging.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1644160569765773316

 

[TL4S]

I may have missed it but I've never seen any reports of people threatening RA's life. Surely Leazenby would have stated that in his motion to move RA. He stated due to the high profile and media coverage, potential of safety and security concerns for the defendant, the staff and facility.

Since the document became no longer available to the public, we probably could assume it was never meant to be seen by the public. So no public gauging.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1644160569765773316

This is a key point that keeps getting omitted in the discussions over this document. It's very possible that the document was never meant for public consumption. We just don't know for sure, but if it was not meant for us to see, then the document might need to be viewed in a different light. JMO.

I don't personally feel like RA's lawyers would publicly announce the location he would be potentially moved, or speak towards mental health issues that could skirt towards HIPPA violations if RA is not sound enough to give permission. The language used, which many find offensive (POW) might have been chosen specifically for the judge they are writing the motion to, not necessarily the public.

IDK, I'm just tossing some ideas out there...

 

[Salah11]

Just seen that photo and he does look absolutely horrific but it’s jail and he has been charged with the murder of 2 teenage girls so I still have zero sympathy.

As long as no rules are being broken then he is still alive while his victims died in the most horrific circumstances and he has been charged with those crimes.

 

[MistyWaters]

I may have missed it but I've never seen any reports of people threatening RA's life. Surely Leazenby would have stated that in his motion to move RA. He stated due to the high profile and media coverage, potential of safety and security concerns for the defendant, the staff and facility.

Since the document became no longer available to the public, we probably could assume it was never meant to be seen by the public. So no public gauging.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1644160569765773316

Just associating the previous order with the dictionary definition of ”safekeeping”, which probably refers to safety and security concerns for the defendant. High profile defendants are always at risk, I’d expect, whether or not there have been any specific reports of threats on RA’s life.

Definition of FOR SAFEKEEPING

in order to be kept from danger or harm… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Spiritecho]

So I have 1% sympathy for RA, simply because if he is able to commit suicide or starve himself, then any and all potential answers die with him. I don't want that. There may not be any answers other than he wanted his jollies, we don't know now and we would never know. Imagine how Abby and Libby's families feel with this new motion????

Previously being in the legal field, this motion does, in a way, protect RA and his rights in an appeal as well as if he is found not guilty, he can sue for damages, (I'm still stuck on where were Abby and Libby's rights but...) this motion could also, potentially, create even more legal drama over certain comments and language in the motion. It could also get other attorneys, advocates, congressman, etc..involved to create even more drama. I use the word drama since I can't think of the proper word atm, so I'm not being disrespectful at all.

I would ask any of you, realizing some of you may already, could you travel 3 hrs a day with no pay? They are attorneys and I'm assuming at minimum $200/hr that they are never going to get reimbursed. Having RA closer would help mitigate what these attorney's are paying out, and keep in mind, they potentially have their own experts, had to hire extra staff to review this massive amount of documents just for this case, do their own investigating, going through ever tip, etc. Our small law office had to hire me some help, as I couldn't review docs, draft motions, do filings, answer the phone and talk with clients when we were trying to get ready for trial. So imagine this on a way larger scale.

Be prepared for more of this as well as filings of rescheduling requests because RA's 'team' simply won't be ready any time soon with the vast amount of info they claim they need to go through.

All MOO

 

[twall]

Thank you for pointing us back to your post, you’ve got someone in. Do you know if overall conditions are as bad at Westville as are being described in the motion?

I do not know what the conditions are like in the maximum security unit as my bil is not housed there. I did not know they even had a maximum security unit until this case as I have always known Westville to house low level non-violent offenders so I did some research.

About Westville Correctional Facility:
The campus that is now Westville Correctional Facility was originally Beatty Memorial Hospital, a state-run mental health facility, which opened its doors in February of 1951. The hospital was named in honor of Dr. Norman Beatty, an Indianapolis doctor who had dedicated his career to mental health services. In 1974, a lawsuit filed in the US District Court forced the state to reduce overcrowding in its prisons, creating the need for another prison. Governor Otis Bowen and the Indiana legislature transferred Beatty Memorial Hospital to the Department of Correction. In July of 1979, following renovations and additions, Westville Correctional Facility was opened. In 1991, a 220-bed Maximum Control Complex was added. The facility now has a capacity for more than 3,400 incarcerated individuals, and offers multiple programs focused on community service and re-entry. The facility has partnerships with Gold Standard Truss, with a truss manufacturing facility on grounds, and with the University of Notre Dame and Holy Cross College to offer the Moreau College Initiative

Westville Correctional Facility

www.in.gov

WCU holds 110 maximum security inmates assigned to long-term restricted housing plus 110 inmates in disciplinary segregation.

https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/WCC-Facts-and-Figures-Brochure.pdf

 

[katydid23]

So I have 1% sympathy for RA, simply because if he is able to commit suicide or starve himself, then any and all potential answers die with him. I don't want that. There may not be any answers other than he wanted his jollies, we don't know now and we would never know. Imagine how Abby and Libby's families feel with this new motion????

Previously being in the legal field, this motion does, in a way, protect RA and his rights in an appeal as well as if he is found not guilty, he can sue for damages, (I'm still stuck on where were Abby and Libby's rights but...) this motion could also, potentially, create even more legal drama over certain comments and language in the motion. It could also get other attorneys, advocates, congressman, etc..involved to create even more drama. I use the word drama since I can't think of the proper word atm, so I'm not being disrespectful at all.

I would ask any of you, realizing some of you may already, could you travel 3 hrs a day with no pay? They are attorneys and I'm assuming at minimum $200/hr that they are never going to get reimbursed. Having RA closer would help mitigate what these attorney's are paying out, and keep in mind, they potentially have their own experts, had to hire extra staff to review this massive amount of documents just for this case, do their own investigating, going through ever tip, etc. Our small law office had to hire me some help, as I couldn't review docs, draft motions, do filings, answer the phone and talk with clients when we were trying to get ready for trial. So imagine this on a way larger scale.

Be prepared for more of this as well as filings of rescheduling requests because RA's 'team' simply won't be ready any time soon with the vast amount of info they claim they need to go through.

All MOO

But why would they need to travel 3 hours A DAY? Are the attorneys planning to spend every day with their client?

My Dad was a defense attorney and I never saw him spend every day with a client, even for serious charges. You do many client interviews, in depth, early on, then you begin building your case through further investigation and by hiring experts to do further investigations and reports.

During that time you confer with your client, but not necessarily all day and in person. They could easily do phone meetings and maybe do in person meetings once a week. I don't understand the request to be across the street from each other?

 

[sunshineray]

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ALLEN-MOVE-PRISON-REQUEST.pdf

"Companion"

JANUARY 11, 2022​

In Indiana prisons, people on suicide watch are monitored by peers, not professionals​

In some prisons, people on suicide watch are monitored by peers

People who have threatened to harm themselves can be placed on whats known as suicide watch, where they're constantly monitored by a mental health professional. But in some prisons, suicide watch works differently.

www.wfyi.org

So, they take someone who is legally innocent, transfer him to an Indiana state prison, put him in solitary confinement, put him on suicide watch, take away his bed, have some stranger watch him through a window (so he can't even go to the bathroom in private?). And we still question his treatment?

Until the public knows everything about how RA's own behaviors behind bars may have affected his circumstances there, it's premature to hang the prison system out to dry. This is not an Abu Ghraib situation. RA is not the first, nor will he be the last, accused multiple murderer held behind bars without bail. It's for the protection of the public that this type of incarceration is necessary.

If RA's lawyers truly fear for his physical and mental well being, an emergency motion to the judge to have their client evaluated at once by doctors should have been their first action. Odd RA's lawyers didn't ask for that. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

But why would they need to travel 3 hours A DAY? Are the attorneys planning to spend every day with their client?

My Dad was a defense attorney and I never saw him spend every day with a client, even for serious charges. You do many client interviews, in depth, early on, then you begin building your case through further investigation and by hiring experts to do further investigations and reports.

During that time you confer with your client, but not necessarily all day and in person. They could easily do phone meetings and maybe do in person meetings once a week. I don't understand the request to be across the street from each other?

Maybe because it's a death penalty case?

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO a fairer comparison would be anyone in custody (he is not yet an inmate) awaiting trial for a death penalty eligible
charge, not be housed where it creates hardship/limitations on the defendant and defense's ability to prepare for trial.
The long-term goal being a conviction at trial with limiting grounds for appeal.
I don't think this applies to many in custody or inmates.

I should have used the term Defendant, per Websters definition:

A person or group against whom a criminal or civil action is brought : someone who is being sued or accused of committing a crime.

It's the defense's obligation to arrange and conduct meetings regardless of where he is housed. I'm not sure what hardships are on the defendant currently?

As of Feb 2023, there are 14 awaiting 1st degree murder charges in IN.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

This is a key point that keeps getting omitted in the discussions over this document. It's very possible that the document was never meant for public consumption. We just don't know for sure, but if it was not meant for us to see, then the document might need to be viewed in a different light. JMO.

I don't personally feel like RA's lawyers would publicly announce the location he would be potentially moved, or speak towards mental health issues that could skirt towards HIPPA violations if RA is not sound enough to give permission. The language used, which many find offensive (POW) might have been chosen specifically for the judge they are writing the motion to, not necessarily the public.

IDK, I'm just tossing some ideas out there...

Or this could have been leaked by the Defense despite the gag in order to obtain public sympathy for the accused.

I want RA to be treated fairly just like every other defendant awaiting trial. It's the right thing to do, but extra measures and special treatment are not an entitlement to this defendant IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

In Carroll Co., the public defender is paid $100 per hour. How much of a travel bill can he rack up before people object? Baldwin is based in Franklin, south of Indy.

I don't think the costs should play a part in the treatment (special or otherwise) for any defendant. That's the State's financial concern. I'm sure they know this is going to be a lengthy and costly trial, where the money comes to fund it is probably already being forecasted.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree. A bed, mealsp

Right. Just emotions, no actual attorney work.

Typical Defense tactics IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ALLEN-MOVE-PRISON-REQUEST.pdf

The article RA's atty noted in the motion:

He spent more than four years in solitary confinement. Now Indiana will pay him $425,000​

Published 10:41 PM EST, Tue November 12, 2019

He spent more than four years in solitary confinement. Now Indiana will pay him $425,000 | CNN

The Indiana Department of Correction will pay Jay Vermillion $425,000 as part of a settlement.

www.cnn.com

This Indystar article is longer and has more details:

Indiana will pay inmate $100K for each year he spent in solitary, lawyers say

Jay Vermillion said he spent more than four years in solitary confinement from 2009 to 2013 in Indiana State Prison.

www.indystar.com

RA has been in this facility for 5 1/2 months. Why in the world are his lawyers citing an article about someone who was in confinement for over 4 years!?

Are RA's lawyers ready to sue the state of Indiana already or just threatening? Maybe they should be looking at getting mental and physical check ups on their client.

Do they still have padded cells available if an inmate becomes a danger to themselves...or forced medical attention if they're not drinking or eating?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I should have used the term Defendant, per Websters definition:

A person or group against whom a criminal or civil action is brought : someone who is being sued or accused of committing a crime.

It's the defense's obligation to arrange and conduct meetings regardless of where he is housed. I'm not sure what hardships are on the defendant currently?

As of Feb 2023, there are 14 awaiting 1st degree murder charges in IN.

MOO

Do you know what counties the accused are in and where they are being held?

Maybe we can cite some other cases where an arrested person is held in solitary confinement in prison instead of a county jail.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do you know what counties the accused are in and where they are being held?

Maybe we can cite some other cases where an arrested person is held in solitary confinement in prison instead of a county jail.

https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/data-and-statistics/0223-OffenderPopulation.pdf

Lots of good info here.

 

[FrostedGlass]

RA has been in this facility for 5 1/2 months. Why in the world are his lawyers citing an article about someone who was in confinement for over 4 years!?

Are RA's lawyers ready to sue the state of Indiana already or just threatening? Maybe they should be looking at getting mental and physical check ups on their client.

Do they still have padded cells available if an inmate becomes a danger to themselves...or forced medical attention if they're not drinking or eating?

I posted the articles to help people understand the problem with his current incarceration. Did you read them?

I fully understand that many are 100% convinced that RA is guilty and is deserving of whatever treatment he's getting. It's OK to argue their opinion for feeling that way. However, we still have laws and the accused still have rights; they are spelled out clearly (for those who understand the wording).

 

[minazoe]

he doesn't like being treated like a prisoner. LOLZ.