IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[girlhasnoname]

Someone asked about RA's cell phones so I pulled them from the search returns. It's a long list but cell tower upgrades could account for a good number of those phones.

RA's phone from CO interview:
MEID-256 691 463 100 153 495
MEIDHEX 9900247025797

From the SW return
2 Audiovox devices, 2 silver Motorola flip phones, 4 car chargers, 3 wall outlet chargers
1 Lexar memory card
1 HP laptop
1 HP Pavillon laptop
1 cardboard phone box with cell info
1 Cruzer micro flash drive
1 Western digital hard drive
1Samsung phone in a floral case
1 external hard drive and cord
1 black IPod
2 SD cards
5 vehicle chargers
9 wall outlet chargers
Misc. phone accessories
1 HP laptop charger
1 black and 1 blue pager
3 Motorola and 1 LG flip phones
1 LG Verizon smart phone
1 LG Verizon side slide smart phone
1 Motorola smart phone
3 older cell phones = Audiovox, Nokia, Motorola
1 Nokia Twist cell phone and documents
1 Garmin StreetPilot device, 2 cords and documentation
1 black Pixel cell phone with an Otterbox case
1 black Samsung Galaxy cell with brown case
1 silver LG Cingular flip phone

Thanks for digging those out Frosted.

17 different varieties of phones seems excessive to me. WTH? I see they noted 3 older phones = Audiovox, Nokia, Motorola those I can see as ones you might keep after upgrading.

And 2 pagers? I believe RA was up to some shady stuff over the years.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Fair but your opinion. We don't know what the judge presiding over this case makes of this, no matter our reaction.



Well he would say that wouldn't he?

Prosecution often try the accused in the court of the media pre-trial through leaks and feeding the press, and look to stack the deck, and when the D try to do the same they don't like it. And vice versa of course.

We'll find out who has what weight of evidence in the court room. From what I've seen from both sides so far I cannot form a reliable opinion of guilt or otherwise.

I can.

Unless RA lied to the investigators about being on the bridge when seen by the witness the trail, with the girls approaching and her turning and leaving the bridge abutment with RA still standing in the platform, he is the one who forced then down the hill.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

For years now, there's been a LOT of public posts about the ineptitude of LE. Then it was the ineptitude of NMcL. Now, when the D hands some of that ineptitude to the public on a silver platter, it's the D who is targeted and the State's evidence is without question. It's hard to navigate. JMO.

You’ll certainly not see me defending LE in this case. They have earned all the criticism they have received in my opinion. And I am not a big fan of anything about the Indiana judiciary.
I am not accepting the prosecution’s evidence without question. I want to see it at trial….hopefully sometime in the next five years.
The difference to me is the prosecution is, pretty much, completely quiet about the evidence. They are not leaking information or filing clever little motions in order to get thoroughly scrubbed pro-prosecution ideas out to the public and potential jurors. They are waiting for the trial to try and prove RA guilty.
Very different from the defense that claims no evidence points to RA yet continues to file inflammatory misleading motions. I have lost all respect for them. I certainly want RA to have attorneys arguing for him, but there are many other ways to do that effectively. Motions should be filed if necessary but those motions don’t have to be like the ones we have seen so far from the defense.
Again, I want to see the evidence at trial. I want to see the prosecution’s case. I want to see the defense’s case. If there’s anything in the latest defense motion that is true or relevant, let’s see it in court, with witnesses front and center and under oath. One hundred and thirty six pages of the defense’s opinions is meaningless.
Let’s go to court.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I agree.
I’ll add also that if, according to the defense, there is no evidence linking RA to the crime, why are they trying to kill the search warrant. Why spent all that time spinning a tale of pagan cults and writing a 136 page document? Why not tell the judge you want your speedy trial after all, right now. Then go to court and watch the prosecution’s case implode. What are they afraid of?

A couple of reasons why IMO:
They know how convincing a good prosecutor can be, even with little evidence.
They are laying the groundwork for appeal in case it goes wrong for them.

 

[Arkay]

Again, I want to see the evidence at trial. I want to see the prosecution’s case. I want to see the defense’s case. If there’s anything in the latest defense motion that is true or relevant, let’s see it in court, with witnesses front and center and under oath. One hundred and thirty six pages of the defense’s opinions is meaningless.
Let’s go to court.

I agree with this.

Right now the Defense IMO just has an outer-space theory with no hard evidence.

Court is where it will all shake out.

 

[girlhasnoname]

We know what items were collected during the search of RA's property. Per the memo, JH testified that there was no forensic or electronic evidence connecting RA to the crime scene, so if that's the case, what is left from the items collected that wouldn't fit within the forensics or electronics (and I know someone will point out the D could have manipulated the wording here)? Ballistics, maybe? (And I don't buy for a minute that the D didn't know exactly what all the test results were before they wrote the memo).

I'm just not convinced that there was anything damning found during the search, causing the D to file for the Frank's hearing. Getting the SW tossed would get rid of the ballistics evidence, I guess. But I personally think that ballistics evidence will really come down to how good the expert witnesses are on both sides.

IMO, if there were legitimate omissions left out of TL's affidavit for the search, then the D had an obligation to file for the Frank's hearing, regardless of their client's guilt or innocence. JMO.

I feel like the D's strategy right now is to be bold and out in everybody's face. If they knew, straight up, that the State's evidence had their client in the bag, why would the D push for broadcasting the trial? Pleading out or keeping RA and the details of the murders out of the public eye would be more beneficial to RA and his family, I would imagine, than a public trial. JMO. Then again, perhaps it's just the strategy for the moment while they wait for the judge. IDK.

I also think there were a lot of details about the crime scene left out of the memo. There are things we don't know about yet, I'm sure, like maybe the signatures, other injuries, or whatnot, and do these things point toward or away from RA? Both the D and the P must benefit by holding some things back for the trial, wouldn't they?

The Defense is pushing for cameras in the courtroom I believe to do more of their sensationalized grandstanding, maybe they can sway one juror with this preposterous religious sacrifice story.

This case has been far from perfect over the years. Frustrating is putting it mildly, but I do not believe the State has picked RA as their scapegoat. No case is ever a slam dunk, but I am convinced on his guilt based on what we know so far by the PCA, SW's and his confessions.

I agree the Defense and Prosecution have held back some things for trial. We will have to wait until then to learn the actual magnitude of those details.

Mostly I feel sorry for the 2 young girls Abby and Libby who were viciously murdered that day and hope that their killer is brought to justice and given the maximum penalty. While I am sorry for RA's family, I grieve for the girl's loved ones who have been living his nightmare going on 7 years (in Feb 24). That's unimaginable to me.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Thanks for digging those out Frosted.

17 different varieties of phones seems excessive to me. WTH? I see they noted 3 older phones = Audiovox, Nokia, Motorola those I can see as ones you might keep after upgrading.

And 2 pagers? I believe RA was up to some shady stuff over the years.

MOO

Your welcome. I find it very easy to keep old phones. I have 3 of those; apps still work, pictures are still there. I've had 1 or 2 Nokias, 2 LGs, 1 Moto and 2 junkers that my provider sent me when the G was upgraded. So I don't find the phones the Allen family have to be excessive.

I don't know much about pagers. I think I saw FB camping pics; maybe RA and wife both had a pager in case of emergency.

 

[MistyWaters]

Your welcome. I find it very easy to keep old phones. I have 3 of those; apps still work, pictures are still there. I've had 1 or 2 Nokias, 2 LGs, 1 Moto and 2 junkers that my provider sent me when the G was upgraded. So I don't find the phones the Allen family have to be excessive.

I don't know much about pagers. I think I saw FB camping pics; maybe RA and wife both had a pager in case of emergency.

Pagers were very common in the 90s, often a means to contact employees who were on call in case of after hours emergencies in the days before everyone had a cellphone.

 

[RedArcher]

This gives me at least some hope that LE have the right guy and that maybe they have more evidence than we are privy to at the moment. Let's all just hope this is legitimate and the right person is being held accountable.
This is the
STATE'S RESPONSE TO DEFENSE'S PETITION TO LET TO BAIL
Pg 54 of 284 paragraph 6-9 delphidocs.pdf



6. That the State believes there is competent evidence that the Court can rely on and
from which the Court can make it's own independent determination that the
admissible evidence against the accused adds up to strong and evident proof of
guilt.
7. That the State believes the evidence shows culpability of the actual crime of murder, for which bail may be wholly denied.
8. That the State believes this evidence shows by a preponderance of the evidence
that the Defendant committed the crime of Murder.
9. Under 1.C. 35-33-8-2, the crime of Murder is not bailable if the State proves by a
preponderance of the evidence that the proof is evident or the presumption strong
that the Defendant committed the offense.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Well, if he helped the killers by kidnapping the girls and forcing them down the hill, and giving them over, then RA is right where he belongs, and should be tried for Felony Murder.

TRUE

 

[MistyWaters]

Well, if he helped the killers by kidnapping the girls and forcing them down the hill, and giving them over, then RA is right where he belongs, and should be tried for Felony Murder.

Just to set the record straight RA was charged with the actual murders as well.

Delphi Suspect Richard Allen Faces Murder Charges with Underlying Offenses, New Court Records Indicate

The suspect in the Delphi Murders is accused of a specific subsection of Indiana's murder statute which involves at least one underlying offense.

lawandcrime.com

“Delphi Murders suspect Richard Matthew Allen, 50, stands accused of murder under a specific subsection of Indiana’s statute which involves at least one underlying offense, a court docket in the case made public for the first time on Wednesday indicates.”

 

[twall]

Just saw this on the Rachel Morin thread.

Found Deceased - MD - Rachel Morin, 37, left for walk on Ma & Pa Trail 6pm, car found at Williams St entrance, Bel Air, 5 Aug 2023 #2

Came over here to check for an update. So this perp who killed may have murdered Rachel and assaulted or even killed others, is still roaming freely ? Unbelievable. Omo.

www.websleuths.com

 

[DeDee]

From the link

A woman escaped an attempted rape in a wooded area just off the Monon Trail Saturday, < >

Officers were called around 4:45 p.m. on a report of an attempted rape on the Monon trail near 71st street.

< > told them she walked off the Monon Trail onto a wooded trail where a man pushed her to the ground. < >, the suspect pulled down the woman’s pants and underwear and “repeatedly” tried to cover her mouth as she screamed for help.

< > fought her attacker, a good Samaritan came to her aid and the suspect ran off.

ETA - this is in Indy; not Delphi?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

From the link

A woman escaped an attempted rape in a wooded area just off the Monon Trail Saturday, < >

Officers were called around 4:45 p.m. on a report of an attempted rape on the Monon trail near 71st street.

< > told them she walked off the Monon Trail onto a wooded trail where a man pushed her to the ground. < >, the suspect pulled down the woman’s pants and underwear and “repeatedly” tried to cover her mouth as she screamed for help.

< > fought her attacker, a good Samaritan came to her aid and the suspect ran off.

ETA - this is in Indy; not Delphi?

Hamilton County near fairgrounds I believe. If so, no where close to area of MHB. JMO. It's almost 75 miles from there to Delphi per this map.

 

[Miya]

For years now, there's been a LOT of public posts about the ineptitude of LE. Then it was the ineptitude of NMcL. Now, when the D hands some of that ineptitude to the public on a silver platter, it's the D who is targeted and the State's evidence is without question. It's hard to navigate. JMO.

Yeah, that's what I don't get. It's just because the defense said it. It's the defense's duty to defend their client, that's part of a fair trial. If we don't accept that, we could just prosecute people without defense and call it a day. Two things can be true at the same time, the defense blows things out of proportion, but so does the prosecution. In every case.

 

[Bergmann]

I can.

Unless RA lied to the investigators about being on the bridge when seen by the witness the trail, with the girls approaching and her turning and leaving the bridge abutment with RA still standing in the platform, he is the one who forced then down the hill.

We trust that the jury pool will make their minds up based upon the presentation of evidence in court rather than making their minds up based on pre-trial sparring.

You are right to raise the witness statements and I truly believe that being convincing on this issue will do the most to sway a jury either way (in the absence of compelling proven DNA etc

If I were the prosecution I would try to make this very simple and easy to follow, and lead with conclusion rather than detailed analysis. I'd use RA's words against him. I'd use my witnesses on the stand to maximum effect. If I'm prosecution then really all I need to do is convince the jury that RA is BG and I'm pretty much there (due to the felony murder charge).

If I were the D I would seek to clarify and cross examine precisely who said what about who and how reliable these statements are and seek to demonstrate conflict etc. If the judge allowed, I would have a field day focusing on the 'poofy haired young man' etc. I'd also point to inconsistencies with regard to clothes described and of course which car was seen parked where at what time.

Of course nothing new about this, ever was it thus!

 

[Bergmann]

Turning attention to one of the big issues raised in the D memo which has a number of facets - the named suspects who were subsequently cleared. This begs a number of questions which will need to be considered.

a. Who are EF, BH, PW and other named actors - ie what kind of people are they, what is their background, do they have criminal records etc

b. Delphi is a very small town ie 3k pop'n. Who are these people connected to by relationship, family ties etc. ie the families of the vitcims, RA, RL etc?

b2. LE has said DNA has been recovered from the scene - in such a small population how hasn't genealogy DNA ruled suspects in or out?

c. How exactly does EF confess to his sister on the 14 Feb 2017 that he was involved in the death of two girls, near a bridge, naming one as Abigail, and describe aspects that appear to fit the unusual crime scene (which I don't think has become public knowledge until the D memo of 18th Sep 2023?)

d. What level of investigation was done on these initial suspects and how thorough was this? What status is the file at - I assume it is sealed and not available for public access?

e. The report by the 3 investigating officers was subsequently rejected and the investigation closed, and EF, BH & PW eliminated as active leads - on what basis did LE choose to do this? Particularly as they had not followed up and identified RA until 2022?

f. Entirely speculative, but I do wonder whether on the basis of what was known about these suspects, the tips received, the outcome of the interviews etc - would there have had sufficient probable cause to serve SWs on any of them at the time? (You would imagine that this is a line of enquiry that D will follow up in cross examination of LE)

 

[MistyWaters]

Turning attention to one of the big issues raised in the D memo which has a number of facets - the named suspects who were subsequently cleared. This begs a number of questions which will need to be considered.

a. Who are EF, BH, PW and other named actors - ie what kind of people are they, what is their background, do they have criminal records etc

b. Delphi is a very small town ie 3k pop'n. Who are these people connected to by relationship, family ties etc. ie the families of the vitcims, RA, RL etc?

b2. LE has said DNA has been recovered from the scene - in such a small population how hasn't genealogy DNA ruled suspects in or out?

c. How exactly does EF confess to his sister on the 14 Feb 2017 that he was involved in the death of two girls, near a bridge, naming one as Abigail, and describe aspects that appear to fit the unusual crime scene (which I don't think has become public knowledge until the D memo of 18th Sep 2023?)

d. What level of investigation was done on these initial suspects and how thorough was this? What status is the file at - I assume it is sealed and not available for public access?

e. The report by the 3 investigating officers was subsequently rejected and the investigation closed, and EF, BH & PW eliminated as active leads - on what basis did LE choose to do this? Particularly as they had not followed up and identified RA until 2022?

f. Entirely speculative, but I do wonder whether on the basis of what was known about these suspects, the tips received, the outcome of the interviews etc - would there have had sufficient probable cause to serve SWs on any of them at the time? (You would imagine that this is a line of enquiry that D will follow up in cross examination of LE)

The newly introduced speculation of potential involvement of EF, BH, PW isn’t anything new, it’s just more of. Over the last five years there’s been countless other characters who could’ve done it, too many for me to remember their all names other than RL, JBC, and KAK plus some guy who gravitated towards axes.

The Judge is not going to allow a whole array of other possibilities to be either convicted or cleared during the trial. It will solely focus on the issue at hand, the accused - RA and will the prosecution prove he is guilty of the charges. Everything else is just a SM sideshow.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The newly introduced speculation of potential involvement of EF, BH, PW isn’t anything new, it’s just more of. Over the last five years there’s been countless other characters who could’ve done it, too many for me to remember their all names other than RL, JBC, and KAK plus some guy who gravitated towards axes.

The Judge is not going to allow a whole array of other possibilities to be either convicted or cleared during the trial. It will solely focus on the issue at hand, the accused - RA and will the prosecution prove he is guilty of the charges. Everything else is just a SM sideshow.

Have you followed any of her other cases to know how she rules or how much latitude she gives one side or the other?

 

[MistyWaters]

Have you followed any of her other cases to know how she rules or how much latitude she gives one side or the other?

No but court procedure does not vary a whole lot - only the accused is ever on trial. That’s the whole point of it - does the state have adequate evidence to convict the accused beyond reasonable doubt.

If not, imagine if the defence introduced the 50,000 tips and poured through them one by one, seeking every other possible suspect. The trial would go on for years!