IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[CGBSpender]

Do you have any thoughts as to why Roland Kohr did the autopsies? I researched that years ago and was curious as to why they sent the bodies to Terre Haute.

His specialties?

My understanding is that he is/was one of the main forensic pathologists used by FBI and ISP in Indiana, and he would have been the closest to Delphi (the other main forensic pathologists used by those agencies at the time I believe being Hiedingsfelder (Evansville), Hoover (South Bend), and Wagner (Fort Wayne)). The FBI also has a satellite office in Terre Haute.
See also: https://www.in.gov/ctb/files/section201.pdf

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Dbm
Sorry, wrong thread!

 

[twall]

https://x.com/NewsyBarbara/status/1712501222559699093?s=20

 

[Emma Peel]

I still think somebody tipped RA in. JMO

"fresh eyes" vs. ... a tip offering "fresh eyes"?

LE didn't mention a tip (ahem) ... but I really like the translation.
A tip = "fresh eyes".

******

First, Libby sent a social media post of Abby on the bridge.
Then Libby had the presence of mind to take a video of BG on the bridge as he got closer to them.

What was on Libby's mind ... that she captured BG on her video?
Can the Prosecution make that connection ... without cyber evidence?

Q: Did they ruled out KK/RA relationship?

 

[girlhasnoname]

"fresh eyes" vs. ... a tip offering "fresh eyes"?

LE didn't mention a tip (ahem) ... but I really like the translation.
A tip = "fresh eyes".

******

First, Libby sent a social media post of Abby on the bridge.
Then Libby had the presence of mind to take a video of BG on the bridge as he got closer to them.

What was on Libby's mind ... that she captured BG on her video?
Can the Prosecution make that connection ... without cyber evidence?

Q: Did they ruled out KK/RA relationship?

I remember at the very first first Presser when they announced an arrest, a reporter asked about the reward. Something along the lines of "will the reward be paid or claimed?", close to that. ISP's Doug C very definitely hem-hawed around answering that question, seemingly looking off guard for an answer.

Of course, that could certainly be my over active mind. hah

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

https://x.com/NewsyBarbara/status/1712501222559699093?s=20

Next Thursday 10/19 can't get here soon enough. We need something new to bat around, I hope the Franks Hearing is held on 10/31.

 

[Justice101]

Funnily enough I don't. I have much more cynical and conspiratorial reasons why RA was looked at again - lol

What's your reason?

I thought when they went back to square one... they said, "Let's make a new list of everyone we know about that was on the trail that day and re-interview them." That is when I think perhaps the clerk that the lieutenant praised when the arrest was announced, found the missing reference to that Natural Resource officer (possibly informally) interviewing RA.

 

[Emma Peel]

I remember at the very first first Presser when they announced an arrest, a reporter asked about the reward. Something along the lines of "will the reward be paid or claimed?", close to that. ISP's Doug C very definitely hem-hawed around answering that question, seemingly looking off guard for an answer.

Of course, that could certainly be my over active mind. hah

MOO

ah ha! and oops!
reporter w/ a source confuses on background and off-the-record info?

(more of that, please)

 

[Emma Peel]

ah ha! and oops!
reporter w/ a source confuses on background and off-the-record info?

(more of that, please)

explains the gag order.

 

[scapa]

Odinism is a religion, not a prison gang.

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this here, but it's an article from what I think is a reputable source.

Mods, if this isn't appropriate please snip this comment, thanks.

'Odinism': How white supremacists co-opt pagan symbols to further racist agendas in the United States

White supremacists have long had a tendency to steal, then subvert, the original meaning of symbols and runes used by peaceful, pagan religions worldwide.

www.wthr.com

For sure. OTOH, there are numerous sources and articles that quote prison wardens and staff who view some forms of "Odinism" as the political / theological arm of white supremicist groups within prisons.

Supreme Court Requires Prisons Give Special Consideration to Racist Pagans

Correctional officials around the country struggle with a court ruling accommodating Odinism, a sometimes racist religion

www.splcenter.org

Not sure where prison guards might or might not fit into this, or if these practices / groups have any relevance to the murders of A and L, whatever their role, if any, in the treatment of RA while incarcerated.

 

[Jade]

"fresh eyes" vs. ... a tip offering "fresh eyes"?

LE didn't mention a tip (ahem) ... but I really like the translation.
A tip = "fresh eyes".

******

First, Libby sent a social media post of Abby on the bridge.
Then Libby had the presence of mind to take a video of BG on the bridge as he got closer to them.

What was on Libby's mind ... that she captured BG on her video?
Can the Prosecution make that connection ... without cyber evidence?

Q: Did they ruled out KK/RA relationship?

The Probable Cause Affidavit calls it a ‘tip’

Funnily enough I don't. I have much more cynical and conspiratorial reasons why RA was looked at again - lol

Why wouldn’t we believe it is as said: a review of the case revealed an overlooked witness present at the very time in question?

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Page 4:

>>

Investigators reviewing prior tips encountered a tip narrative from an officer who interviewed Richard M. Allen in 2017. >>



If every word of the Ds tale is to be believed why not this?



Read the redacted Richard Allen court documents tying him to the Delphi murders

 

[Bergmann]

What's your reason?

I have very little faith nor trust in the LE and DA in this case. I understand for lots of people YMMV so please don't be offended or feel the need to put me right, this is just opinion only.

• Leazenby calls off the official search early
• LE fail to collect all the evidential material - the sticks left out in the elements for two weeks, the tree bark and blood just left there
• The sketches
• Doug Carter I just cannot take to, the man IMO speaks in riddles
• Liggett lying and changing witness statements
• The decision to put RA in Westville
• Holeman who says he doesn't know who the Nordic Prof is, but at the same time is organising a follow up interview
• McLeland has never tried a murder case before
• McLeland sealing all the documents and trying to keep cameras out of court

Mostly, and there's nothing to back this up - I've always felt something was off in this case and not quite right. I still can't put my finger on it properly and its just hunch type feeling so probably completely wrong.

If every word of the Ds tale is to be believed why not this?

Good lord I would not believe nor recommend others to believe everything that D has said! Equally I wouldn't dismiss is it either. Remember when NMcL dismissed the D 136p memo saying it was 'colourful, dramatic and highly unprofessional', he also said it was 'not completely true' - oh ok Nick so which bits are true...

 

[Emma Peel]

The Probable Cause Affidavit calls it a ‘tip’





Why wouldn’t we believe it is as said: a review of the case revealed an overlooked witness present at the very time in question?

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Page 4:

>>

Investigators reviewing prior tips encountered a tip narrative from an officer who interviewed Richard M. Allen in 2017. >>



If every word of the Ds tale is to be believed why not this?



Read the redacted Richard Allen court documents tying him to the Delphi murders

Perhaps because (while sadly true), it's very difficult to accept that that ... for 4 years ... the investigation "overlooked" any fact witness on the trail that day, especially the male(s) fitting the BG description. It's not like they had to interview every possible fact witness at coachella or something.

Best place for this case is on that WS thread that asks what case makes you nuts.

 

[tlcya]

weird conversation I witnessed this past weekend at my local biker bar. A friend who is black and a member of a local motorcycle club was wearing a necklace featuring Thor's hammer.

Some white dude who was not a regular and we didn't know started talking about said friend's necklace and asked if my friend was an Odinist. My friend asked him why and the guy said because those folks are usually white supremacists and you are black. Why would you wear a symbol of theirs.

He went on to explain that many fellow prisoners when he was "inside" were Odinists/white supremacists. My friend told him there may be a sub faction of Odinism that was indeed not "black friendly" but many once percenters are into the old norse religions and are not at all affiliated with white supremacy and that further some bikers and MC members simply enjoy the cool look of Thor's hammer and runes, right along with skulls and other cool symbols.

I just thought it was interesting because as long as I've been riding and hanging out with one percenters, Odinism has never been a topic of conversation. Until an ex con brought it up this weekend.

 

[Emma Peel]

I have very little faith nor trust in the LE and DA in this case. I understand for lots of people YMMV so please don't be offended or feel the need to put me right, this is just opinion only.

• Leazenby calls off the official search early
• LE fail to collect all the evidential material - the sticks left out in the elements for two weeks, the tree bark and blood just left there
• The sketches
• Doug Carter I just cannot take to, the man IMO speaks in riddles
• Liggett lying and changing witness statements
• The decision to put RA in Westville
• Holeman who says he doesn't know who the Nordic Prof is, but at the same time is organising a follow up interview
• McLeland has never tried a murder case before
• McLeland sealing all the documents and trying to keep cameras out of court

Mostly, and there's nothing to back this up - I've always felt something was off in this case and not quite right. I still can't put my finger on it properly and its just hunch type feeling so probably completely wrong.




Good lord I would not believe nor recommend others to believe everything that D has said! Equally I wouldn't dismiss is it either. Remember when NMcL dismissed the D 136p memo saying it was 'colourful, dramatic and highly unprofessional', he also said it was 'not completely true' - oh ok Nick so which bits are true...

weird conversation I witnessed this past weekend at my local biker bar. A friend who is black and a member of a local motorcycle club was wearing a necklace featuring Thor's hammer.

Some white dude who was not a regular and we didn't know started talking about said friend's necklace and asked if my friend was an Odinist. My friend asked him why and the guy said because those folks are usually white supremacists and you are black. Why would you wear a symbol of theirs.

He went on to explain that many fellow prisoners when he was "inside" were Odinists/white supremacists. My friend told him there may be a sub faction of Odinism that was indeed not "black friendly" but many once percenters are into the old norse religions and are not at all affiliated with white supremacy and that further some bikers and MC members simply enjoy the cool look of Thor's hammer and runes, right along with skulls and other cool symbols.

I just thought it was interesting because as long as I've been riding and hanging out with one percenters, Odinism has never been a topic of conversation. Until an ex con brought it up this weekend.

Please explain "one percenters"? I'm not following.

 

[TL4S]

The Probable Cause Affidavit calls it a ‘tip’





Why wouldn’t we believe it is as said: a review of the case revealed an overlooked witness present at the very time in question?

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Page 4:

>>

Investigators reviewing prior tips encountered a tip narrative from an officer who interviewed Richard M. Allen in 2017. >>



If every word of the Ds tale is to be believed why not this?



Read the redacted Richard Allen court documents tying him to the Delphi murders

Yes, I was under the impression that RA tipped himself in, like called to report himself as having been on the trails that day, when LE were asking people to do so.

 

[Jade]

Perhaps because (while sadly true), it's very difficult to accept that that ... for 4 years ... the investigation "overlooked" any fact witness on the trail that day, especially the male(s) fitting the BG description. It's not like they had to interview every possible fact witness at coachella or something.

Best place for this case is on that WS thread that asks what case makes you nuts.

My understanding is that it was misfiled. Lost not overlooked.

If it were in a batch of active tips and ignored then I agree but it wasn’t.

It was one CO who met with RA at his request, took the tip casually, not at a LE precinct, shoddily recorded it and seemly never followed through.

If the rest of LE had no idea RA had come forward as a park goer at the critical time how would they know who he was?

Once the clerk turned up the tip and there it was the missing piece of the not tall, surly guy who was seen but never identified it pointed right to RA.

The CO’s testimony I’m looking forward to because it was he alone that fouled up RA’s tip, imo.

RA sought him out thinking him a patsy and it worked, imo.


all imo

 

[Boxer]

Right. Those witnesses box him in at 1.30

Basically the police interview was the second dumbest thing he did, after the tip interview.

If you did a double murder, or even if you didn't, don't do these interviews!

He may have recognized the 3 girls, meaning he would think when they thought about it, they would tell police they saw the guy from CVS so he chanced being forthcoming.

 

[Justice101]

My understanding is that it was misfiled. Lost not overlooked.

If it were in a batch of active tips and ignored then I agree but it wasn’t.

It was one CO who met with RA at his request, took the tip casually, not at a LE precinct, shoddily recorded it and seemly never followed through.

If the rest of LE had no idea RA had come forward as a park goer at the critical time how would they know who he was?

Once the clerk turned up the tip and there it was the missing piece of the not tall, surly guy who was seen but never identified it pointed right to RA.

The CO’s testimony I’m looking forward to because it was he alone that fouled up RA’s tip, imo.

RA sought him out thinking him a patsy and it worked, imo.


all imo

I agree!

The CO's explanation of how ho conversed with RA, what he found out and how he conveyed it to the investigation.. will be interesting and a learning experience for LE everywhere.. but IMO will not be part of an effective defense strategy at discrediting the information on their client

 

[Boxer]

LYes, I was under the impression that RA tipped himself in, like called to report himself as having been on the trails that day, when LE were asking people to do so.

Is it cerain what day he talked to the CO? I believe it was the 14th.