IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

[girlhasnoname]

The video included in your article shows copies of parts of the motions. If the news released all the docs they have, we probably would know a lot more than we do.

They've only had "14 hard drives, five more flash drives and three more discs" for 24 days. How would a person ever know where to begin unless P gave them minute markers or whatever (which I seriously doubt).

Yeah, it's a lot of evidence in this case of 6 years. The Prosecution isn't required to point out minute markers on drives and discs. They are required to turn it over in Discovery and it's the Defenses's job to find it.

All hands on deck I suppose, but I don't believe the trial will be held in Jan 2024.

JMO

 

[zh0r4]

I've seen quite a few cases where the guilty passed an initial polygraph, it's not unheard of. That's part of the reason they're not admissible in court.

JMO

Correct, guilty suspects have passed polygraphs before, but in this case JM is not a suspect in any crime, only an alleged witness to a story from her family member who said he was there.

 

[zh0r4]

Mine is time stamped as well and does not say "Final Draft" anywhere on the document. I personally don't believe it was uploaded by accident at all, it was a calculated move by the Defense.

MOO

The copy that I have currently is on scribd. Mine also says 2:06am but doesn’t say final draft. However, the first time I read the defense memo it was a Google doc that has since been removed. Originally both the Google doc link and the scribd link worked. If I remember correctly the Google doc link was taken down about 3 days after it was originally posted.

 

[zh0r4]

RBBM - Not with a gag order in place.

Exactly. A gag order could be perceived as a way to control the flow of information. JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Correct, guilty suspects have passed polygraphs before, but in this case JM is not a suspect in any crime, only an alleged witness to a story from her family member who said he was there.

My point was that people who were lying have passed polys. I'm not accusing JM of lying per se' maybe she believes what EF told her. I'm just suspicious of anything the Defense has alleged in the Memorandum.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

My reading of the memo (which references its sources for these statements in the footnotes) is that on the day when the poor girls were found (14th Feb '17) that EF made such a fuss to his sister claiming that he was involved/ witnessed the murder of two girls by a bridge, and that he placed sticks above the head of Abigail.

We haven't seen and nor would we want to personally, the crime scene photos. But the description given by the D who have seen them is that EFs confession includes description which bears a strong resemblance to the crime scene, which given how unusual it has always been described as looking, is quite an uncanny thing IMO - well before texts, rumours and the like could have possibly influenced EF or his sisters.

On page 1 of the Odin report, Mary Jacobs told law enforcement that on February 14, 2017,Elvis was rambling, hyper and borderline incoherent. He was talking about having a “brother”(even though Elvis had no male siblings) and was now part of a “gang.” Elvis told Mary that he had been on a bridge with two girls that were killed. Elvis told her that someone named Abigail was a pain in the *advertiser censored* and a troublemaker. She said Elvis tried to give her (Mary Jacobs) a blue jacket. She told him that she had her own jacket.

After Elvis made these statements to his sister, Mary Jacobs, she later became aware of the Delphi murders and put two and two together. Sometime 2-3 weeks after Elvis made the statements, Mary Jacobs and her husband (Troy) drove to Delphi. While in Delphi, March Jacobs talked to law enforcement about the things Elvis had told her on February 14, 2017, but “due to the mass amount of tips that were generated, her information may have been overlooked".

In December 2018 Mary Jacobs enlisted the help of an old acquaintance of hers named Misty Moore. Since law enforcement had not followed up with Mary Jacobs from earlier in the year when she drove to Delphi and described what Elvis had told her, Mary was still concerned that Elvis was involved in the murders, but nothing was being done about it.

In Mary’s “Pre-examination interview”, polygraph examiner Stephanie Thompson recorded that Mary Jacobs stated the following: “Elvis told her (Mary) Abigail is a little troublemaker, that he placed leaves on her and used sticks to give her horns ".

EF told the first sister that he was on the bridge with the girls the day of their murders.

Other than that, there wasn't a mention of him supposedly being involved with the killings until some 8 months later.

The other things he mentioned were all a part of a huge rumor mill.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I keep reading that by discussing what EF is alleged to have said that somehow he is being unfairly implicated or accused. This is not the point being made.

To be clear, the points that I find useful to debate is -

a. That on the day after the two girls were murdered, the day they were found (which was what noon or 2pm I can't remember) that EF is alleged to have said he witnessed this, that two others were involved and described placing branches and leaves which the D assert is similar to the actual crime scene. The question being how would he know this, why would he say it?

This is not about mental capacity, this is about the potential for someone to have knowledge of a crime that has only just occurred.

b. How throughly was this investigated and followed up by LE? And in comparison with the RA alleged confessions, why would the nature and detail of EFs alleged confession carry any less weight? Particularly since this was so close to the murders, with investigation just getting into full swing. It is fair for LE to provide rationale for what was done, and why this lead (not necessarily EF as a perp) was filed as closed.

Nothing to do with whether EF was capable or materially involved.

A)
The only claim made by EF on February 14th was that he was on the bridge with the girls the day they died.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Mine is time stamped as well and does not say "Final Draft" anywhere on the document. I personally don't believe it was uploaded by accident at all, it was a calculated move by the Defense.

MOO

If you can find the document that has the option of "Document Properties" you will find the title is "Final Draft" along with the date; as well as the Created: date and time stamp and Modified: date and time stamp.

I would post the link; but since I downloaded it, it has my name in it so I won't post it. If one of the mods wants to see it, I'll send them the link.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I would personally like all of the information. It would be great if there is a P memo, that cites and quotes these confessions as the D memo does (i.e., “RA confessed on x date in a taped/recorded interview with x officer @ x:x:x min”)-this is why I was asking if something like this exists. I would like to read it as I did the D memo. IMO the media, for example, is not straight from LE/P; details can get lost from source to source. This is why I prefer reading all information from both P and D which typically cites the source of their information. JMO just because I would like to have everything before forming an opinion, does not mean I believe RA is innoce

Newly released documents claim Richard Allen confessed to Delphi Murders 'no less than 5 times' in jailhouse call

In this article it states that Richard Allen made a phone call to his wife on April 3, 2023 where he confessed to the murders of Abby and Libby. This call was recorded and transcribed and forwarded to proper parties. Allen immediately began to act erratically, eating paper, refusing food and breaking his iPad.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Filed today; Judge Gull has more reading to do.

10/03/2023

Motion Filed Defendant's Additional Franks Notice

 

[Ravenmoon]

The following is AJMO:

The correct person will stand trial for the crime of kidnapping and murdering AW and LG. They have that person in custody.

I don't buy the cult theory.

I do believe that there are others involved.

I don't really think that anyone else participated in the murders physically, but it wouldn't be crazy to find out that there is somehow another person that helped that day.

I hope that whoever else had any involvement will be prosecuted.

I lean towards photos and really nasty people being a part of "the tentacles.'

Again, JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

The following is AJMO:

The correct person will stand trial for the crime of kidnapping and murdering AW and LG. They have that person in custody.

I don't buy the cult theory.

I do believe that there are others involved.

I don't really think that anyone else participated in the murders physically, but it wouldn't be crazy to find out that there is somehow another person that helped that day.

I hope that whoever else had any involvement will be prosecuted.

I lean towards photos and really nasty people being a part of "the tentacles.'

Again, JMO

Agreed, photos or video God forbid.

 

[Trebor5591]

Did the memorandum say it was done transposing the CO's report, so clerical not incorrect police reporting?

What is the CO report please?

 

[Miya]

Filed today; Judge Gull has more reading to do.

10/03/2023

Motion Filed Defendant's Additional Franks Notice

If I just found the right one, and I probably did (and I'm probably not allowed to say where I found it or link to it, so I let somebody do that who understands the rules better than I do), they miraculously found the Professor shortly after the Frank's motion memo mentioning him and how nobody remembers who he is. LE interviewed him and it looks like he didn't say that there is no Odinist link at all.

Interesting. It is weird that they tried to hide this Professor.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

If I just found the right one, and I probably did (and I'm probably not allowed to say where I found it or link to it, so I let somebody do that who understands the rules better than I do), they miraculously found the Professor shortly after the Frank's motion memo mentioning him and how nobody remembers who he is. LE interviewed him and it looks like he didn't say that there is no Odinist link at all.

Interesting. It is weird that they tried to hide this Professor.

is it possible they simply didn’t have it? I mean they lost the CO report which linked Allen to the bridge and trails the day the girls went missing.
It was a theory that was looked into in 2018 and they felt was not related. The new interview definitely isn’t word for word what was discussed in 2018- it’s a new interview.
Doesn’t mean that the deposition wasn’t the investigator’s true and honest summary and memory of the findings on August 8th of this year.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Remember they decided it wasn’t a good lead back in 2018, when there wasn’t another likely suspect on the line. I would think they would have investigated this theory to the fullest extent.

 

[Miya]

is it possible they simply didn’t have it? I mean they lost the CO report which linked Allen to the bridge and trails the day the girls went missing.
It was a theory that was looked into in 2018 and they felt was not related. The new interview definitely isn’t word for word what was discussed in 2018- it’s a new interview.
Doesn’t mean that the deposition wasn’t the investigator’s true and honest summary and memory of the findings on August 8th of this year.

Not sure what you are trying to say? In the defense memo it said that LE doesn't remember and likely won't be able to find that Professor - ever. And just after that memo, they suddenly remember and interview him. And he says pretty much the opposite of what LE claimed before (that it had nothing to do with any cult). So you do have to wonder why they were trying to hide him but after the memo couldn't anymore.

I lose more and more trust in LE and the prosecution, it's disturbing and even if RA is guilty, with all the games and lies and trying to hide things, they create reasonable doubt on top of reasonable doubt ...

 

[DeDee]

What is the CO report please?

CO stands for the Conservation Officer that Richard Allen told that he'd been at the Monon trails when the two saw one another outside of a grocery market. The CO gave the tip to Delphi authorities but there was an oversight so it was overlooked for fricking six years!

 

[DeDee]

"The attorneys claim one such piece of information involves “several search warrants signed by Judges in Marion County pertaining to certain internet and phone records, including at least one unknown person who admitted to killing the girls, even providing details unknown to the general public of the crime scene such as the fact that he used a knife in a way consistent with the manner of death and also claiming that he used a gun but never fired it.”


Marion Co
Cities in this county include: Indianapolis, Lawrence, Beech Grove, Speedway, Cumberland, Southport, Meridian Hills, Warren Park, Clermont, Homecroft.

Marion County, Indiana detailed profile - houses, real estate, cost of living, wages, work, agriculture, ancestries, and more

eta: Rushville is a two hours drive to Delphi.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Not sure what you are trying to say? In the defense memo it said that LE doesn't remember and likely won't be able to find that Professor - ever. And just after that memo, they suddenly remember and interview him. And he says pretty much the opposite of what LE claimed before (that it had nothing to do with any cult). So you do have to wonder why they were trying to hide him but after the memo couldn't anymore.

I lose more and more trust in LE and the prosecution, it's disturbing and even if RA is guilty, with all the games and lies and trying to hide things, they create reasonable doubt on top of reasonable doubt ...

Miya,
I am sorry I don’t have the memorandum to reference in this response. I am on my phone and it is downloaded elsewhere. My understanding of events is that in defense memorandum states two separate things. 1) Liggett stated during deposition on August 8th that a Purdue Professor did not believe the sticks left at the crime scene were Odinist symbols. 2) Defense states that September 6th Prosecutor NMCL was unable to identify who the Purdue Professor was.
Now once the memorandum came out, State Trooper did find and re-interview the Purdue Professor on September 19th, and then provide the interview to defense on September 27th on a hard drive.
The initial interview of the Purdue Professor was also done by Holeman in the months after the murders and the conclusion at that time was it was not related to Odinist or any other cult worship.
New interview basically states several things but mostly that the patterns look like “somebody” trying to replicate runes.
Holeman, Liggett and NMCL are all different people with different roles.
If they wanted to HIDE the Professor’s testimony then they did a horrible job by tracking him down and getting a new interview.