IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Sillybilly]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

There has been a major cleanup on this thread tonight due to numerous TOS violations. Here are the RULES we all agreed to upon joining this site.

We have a thread dedicated to KAK HERE. If you have an update specific to any of his current charges, pending charges or news, it is to be posted on that thread. For example, dismissals, court appearances, etc.

This is an example of an article and subject matter that may be brought up for discussion on this thread. This pertains to KAK and Abby’s and Libby’s cases. Although sources such as this are approved, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to them. Nevertheless, they remain approved sources here on Websleuths.

Regardless of what is posted in ANY approved source, RA’s family (to include photos) are completely off limits as of this post. They are victims. PERIOD.

If you’re going to reference or discuss a topic (even if it’s been brought up before), a link to an approved source must be provided. Otherwise, don’t mention it.

Decisions made by officials may not sit well with us, but they’re most often made for a reason.

And lastly, STAY ON TOPIC. Please and THANK YOU!

- Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

If your post begins with any of the following, IT IS LIKELY AT RISK OF BEING REMOVED, along with any of its replies. Please take the time to find an approved source link to accompany the information you post.

“I thought I read somewhere…”

“I seem to remember hearing…”

“I’m not sure if I can bring this up, but…”

“I can’t remember where I heard this…”

OR

“This is just a rumor…”

Thanks,
Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Gray Hughes has obtained Richard Allen’s voice from social media that we would not normally approve, so here’s how we are going to handle this. This is really a Gray area (yeah, I said that )

Obviously as RA is the accused, his voice is of great interest to all, and we would not be relevant in the true crime community if we disallowed it when it is so highly relevant.

After discussion with Tricia, the decision is that we will allow members to fully discuss the voice as heard on Gray’s podcast.

We will NOT allow direct linking to the wife’s social media accounts.

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

Although a source is approved here on Websleuths, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to these sources. The fact that a source is or is not approved and the reasons why, however, are not up for debate.

Also, if you have a post removed for a particular reason, do not attempt to post the same information and expect it not to be removed also.

Thanks,
Mad

 

[Ravenmoon]

Funeral pyre? Perhaps the base for what could've become a massive bonfire? The sticks arranged like a pyramid....

How quickly would tinder burn in February? Dry kindling turned instant conflagration?

An effigy of sorts?

But was interrupted?

jmo

Interesting.
I thought about the possibility of trying to burn everything.
I thought about " The Wickerman".
But, with wet clothes, with it being February...it seems like it would be unlikely.

I just don't believe that Runes where ever the intention.


JMO

 

[DeDee]

< RSBM >
All just my opinion below:

—Leazenby calls off the search
*a huge huge mistake. Nothing justifies it in my opinion. A huge mistake but has zero effect on where we are now or RA’s guilt or innocence.

Isn't it fair to judge the investigation by the steps taken by the investigators?

—LE fails to collect evidential material like sticks etc at crime scene
* if LE thought the sticks were just sticks, why would they collect them? It only matters if the defense’s pagan fantasy is true. It’s not a factual document. Why would I believe them over the prosecution.

The manner of the displayed sticks prompted CSI to return to the CS. Surely, the sticks' symbolism is what Ives had in mind when he spoke of signatures.

—The sketches
* LE and the prosecution have a lot to explain concerning the sketches. It has never made sense to anybody. Personally I think LE at that time had absolutely no idea where to look next, and made the bone headed decision to reveal the second sketch. A gigantic mistake! Does it mean RA is innocent? Not necessarily, we need to hear about it in trial. Could it cause RA to walk even if he’s guilty. Yes, I think it could.

A sketch is not a photo -- Doug Carter

—Doug Carter
* he drives me crazy too. He says something, then spends two weeks having to correct or explain what he meant. I never questioned his heart however. DC’s inability to communicate effectively makes him inept at his position. I don’t think DC’s weaknesses equates to him organizing a giant conspiracy against a CVS employee. I doubt he could pull that off anyway.
—Liggett lying and changing witness statements
*Haven’t seen the actual document, only defense’s thoughts. I would like to see it in court.

If Liggett stretched the truth in order to secure an arrest then could it make the Jury question his integrity?

—the decision to put RA in Westville
* He’d be dead by now if they hadn’t in my opinion. Where should they have put him? He couldn’t stay in Carroll County Jail…dead man walking. Any other county jail would have the same safety issues. He was not going to get bond for this crime, and the local Holiday Inn seems inappropriate. Despite all that, how does RA being in Westville affect his guilt or innocence. Also the judge already blew up the hooey about RA being abused by being there.

RAs downfall since being at Westville has lost favor of ISP, etal. Bad for PR.
Confirmation of Odin patches worn by Westville Prison Guards will be heard by the Jury?

—Holeman doesn’t know Nordic professor but tries to find him.
*why wouldn’t he do that? So he forgot the guy’s name, I don’t see why that’s a big deal. It would be a big if he hadn’t tried to find him I think. Let’s see what he says at trial.

As a witness, a searcher is bound to be asked what the CS looked like when they found the girls. The Odin theory is not going gently into that good night. Were crude runes made with freshly cut logs and branches? It appears LE diverted attention away from the Odin theory; perhaps, mainly bc the ritual aspect is unthinkable.

—McL has never tried a murder case
* it would be great if there was an old grizzled prosecutor with 500 cases under his belt. But there isn’t. Why this equates to incompetence or corruption makes no sense to me. He seemed pretty good at the last hearing where he shredded the defense’s claims of abuse. Let’s see him at trial.
—McL sealing the documents and not wanting cameras
*that sure didn’t make me happy but I understood it at the time. The judge corrected that earlier this year. The Judge also stated that it was an error by her court employees to do that, they were sealing things even when no one requested they be sealed. How is that McL’s fault. I would like cameras in the court room.

Transparency in the courtroom is preferred. It'd be a shame to lose justice for Abby and Libby. They must get this right.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Isn't it fair to judge the investigation by the steps taken by the investigators?

The manner of the displayed sticks prompted CSI to return to the CS. Surely, the sticks' symbolism is what Ives had in mind when he spoke of signatures.

A sketch is not a photo -- Doug Carter

If Liggett stretched the truth in order to secure an arrest then could it make the Jury question his integrity?

RAs downfall since being at Westville has lost favor of ISP, etal. Bad for PR.
Confirmation of Odin patches worn by Westville Prison Guards will be heard by the Jury?

As a witness, a searcher is bound to be asked what the CS looked like when they found the girls. The Odin theory is not going gently into that good night. Were crude runes made with freshly cut logs and branches? It appears LE diverted attention away from the Odin theory; perhaps, mainly bc the ritual aspect is unthinkable.

Transparency in the courtroom is preferred. It'd be a shame to lose justice for Abby and Libby. They must get this right.

I just want to hear all the evidence front and center under oath at the trial, with all the cross examinations required. I want to hear all of it, from the prosecution and the defense. If the defense wants to argue the pagan cult idea, let’s hear it.
I’m open to the evidence however it goes, as long as it’s at trial and under oath.

 

[zh0r4]

@Emma Peel Re: your list of really great questions:

Quick Q #2:
Is LE obligated to finally clear other POIs once a guilty verdict is reached for the suspect they arraigned? (PW needs to know.)

IMO. I do not think LE is obligated to clear other POIs once a guilty verdict (via trial/jury) is reached. Theoretically, other POIs would have been cleared before sentencing. From their perspective, the case is closed, as they have located, tried, and convicted the correct perpetrator.

Q #6: I missed this PW name (recent interview guy) as a POI. Perhaps he was never announced to public? Likely there's many POIs we've not heard of. I do think Patrick - should he speak with counsel - will likely find LE can keep a list of POI's with anyone on it for any amount of time they see fit.

PW is named in the D memo, specifically on pages 99-101.

 

[Bergmann]

@StarryStarryNight thanks for your thoughtful reply on the previous thread.

Just to say if I’m giving the impression that I’m anti prosecution and pro defense then let me be clear and state that I hold all parties to a very high standard whether they be P, D or LE. This is such an important case to solve, I just expect all of them to be at the top of their game - and frankly none of them are IMO.

P and LE get the brunt of this because investigating this terrible crime is their responsibility and I think they are massively out of their depth - this case is beyond their capability and capacity and the fact they’ve fallen out with the FBI speaks to that and sadly reminds me of other investigations where this has happened that didn’t have a satisfactory conclusion so for me personally that doesn’t inspire confidence.

This case also comes on the heels of the Flora Fire which is another very tragic case just a few miles away which hasn’t been resolved.

As for the D, believe me I’m not giving them a free pass! I expect them to hold D and P to account and ensure they have the right man. The memo has some good legal bits in it but as I’ve posted before, it also has many gaping holes in it and the leap from Nordic staging to sacrificial murder is just one example of a big mistake IMO. They have really put their own credibility in question with some of the assumptions and wording which annoys me as they need to be credible to properly hold P and LE to account.

It’s kind of like P have the ball at the moment as it’s their prosecution they’re inevitably going to be the ones I’d scrutinise, but that’s not because I’m pro D. Closer we get to trial they’ll get their share too.

I don’t really care about RA as such, just that he gets a fair trial and his rights are protected. I can’t conclude his potential guilt or innocence so for now I presume innocence as is his right to be considered. The state is the big guy with all the resources so I am one of those that just wants the little guy not to get unfairly pummelled.

Prosecution lies matter more to me because we all see the potential injustice if they’re allowed to do this. P are more likely to be believed by more people so this carries a greater risk IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Prosecutor Nick McLeland has a Felony Murder conviction in a case out of Flora, which was recently appealed. One of the main issues was a comment Judge Diener made and another one was the FM charge. We've had so much discussion about FM that I thought the oral hearing would be of interest in this case.

I'll leave the link to the case and to the hearing. It will also be in the Flora case.

GUILTY - IN - Willie Lee Smith Jr., 55, murdered during a meetup for sex, Flora, June, 2021 *2 Arrested*

Suspects in Lafayette man's murder held without bond until hearings [snips] Note: the murder happened in June but charges weren't filed until July. DELPHI, Ind. — Willie Lee Smith Jr. drove to Flora on Wednesday July 16 to have sex with Shianne Brooks-Brown for $80, according to probable cause...

www.websleuths.com

Indiana Appellate Clerk's Portal

 

[Emma Peel]

I'd really like to bake some croissants and muffins and cookies and brownies for this thread. But I can't.

In lieu of baked gratitude, here's a quick thanks to this Abby/Libby community for graciously helping folks (like me) catch-up and noodle through the latest case info. Like many others, my schedule doesn't always cooperate with the breaking news schedule of the cases I follow. When I try to catch up, I notice and so appreciate everyone's patience, kindness, resourcefulness and generosity sharing both the facts and their thoughts here as I catch-up. And I know - it's all for the girls. The good peeps here - are just heartwarming.

 

[raja]

Dbm

 

[Boxer]

About sticks being sticks.
Nope, they were not just sticks.
They were stcks touched by a murderer.

Why are the citizens of Indiana paying these people's cushy salaries and retirements?

 

[FrostedGlass]

About sticks being sticks.
Nope, they were not just sticks.
They were stcks touched by a murderer.

Why are the citizens of Indiana paying these people's cushy salaries and retirements?

Maybe because they generally don't know these things happen? We didn't know anything about the sticks until D brought it up. If it doesn't come out in trial, people still won't know things like leaving the sticks behind. Or any of the other problematic things.

Most people don't go digging through stuff like we do here.

 

[somequestions]

The part I think is strange about this case is that the killer just stopped. I did not think the killer would just stop for 5 1/2 years. If someone comes up with an idea to try to throw investigators off by trying to make it appear the murders were part of some pagan religion, it is sort of surprising they did not try it again somewhere else.

Even though there are other cases where the murderer just stops, this case is unique. People focus on the religious aspect of the crime scene. In my opinion, the killer in this case seems to have a reason for doing what they did.

 

[Boxer]

The part I think is strange about this case is that the killer just stopped. I did not think the killer would just stop for 5 1/2 years. If someone comes up with an idea to try to throw investigators off by trying to make it appear the murders were part of some pagan religion, it is sort of surprising they did not try it again somewhere else.

Even though there are other cases where the murderer just stops, this case is unique. People focus on the religious aspect of the crime scene. In my opinion, the killer in this case seems to have a reason for doing what they did.

There are cold cases solved recently solved by new DNA techniques that are one off murders.
There is apparently a class of (male) murderers that commit one murder, scare themselves and as far as the investigators can discover have only committed the one murder.

These single murders often have a theme of victimizing underage girls or vulnerable women.