IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170

[sunshineray]

Where is that trial rule?
(ETA: The PCA was made public by the judge and discloses the prosecution's theory and evidence)
jmo

Surely not all of it, just enough for a judge to sign the search warrant?

 

[sunshineray]

Someone posted a letter titled Ex Parte Pleading sent to JG by BR on 10/12/2023 on another social media site about a half hour ago. The following from it is interesting to your point...

"Andy communicated to me that Mitch was a fairly skilled strategist and that he would sometimes communicate ideas and circumstances with Mitch to get his feedback. Andy reported that he did this, on occasion, in this case. At no time did Andy ever authorize Mitch to duplicate or take physical possession of any exhibits or documentation in this case."

I feel like it gets murkier with each doc that gets released. Reading the above portion...makes me wonder...how much was he getting feedback from this guy, and even though he wasn't authorized to duplicate or take...was this guy being permitted to view the documentation to provide his "feedback"?

JMO

BINGO!

 

[O.Incandenza]

Well, I'm just glad that it looks like we'll get a ruling from a higher court on this issue.

The worst possible outcome, IMO, would have been for the trial to go forward with the new team without the issue having been definitively resolved by an appellate court. At least this way it won't be hanging over the whole case as a huge appealable issue.

 

[zh0r4]

They skipped over some stuff in regarding the leak.
Early October “F” tree photos from crime scene leaked. MS had seen but unable to verify validity, chose not to share.
10/5 - early morning hours MS received graphic crime scene photos from source M.
10/5- as soon as sun comes up MS informs LE and defense of leak.
MS some point thereafter receives Facebook messaging screenshots that show conversations between M, RF and MW. From investigating on they determine MW to be former employee of AB.
Also MS makes note that RF states he had been involved with collaborating with defense “at their invitation” for a length of time. Messages also indicated MW was still meeting with defense and shares in FB messages another POI and strategies considers by defense.
10/6 4:13pm -BR sends email to JG stating that they just became informed in the last hour ( does not coincide with MS timeline) that a leak of crime scene photos has occurred. That they were told by a staff member by an uninvolved 3rd party. That they are “not the source” of the leak. BR says he called to inform NMc and that they already knew for at least 24 hours. ( which coincides with MS timeline).
10/8 11:05 am JG sends email to AB, BR and NMc encouraging a thorough investigation occur and that leak be stopped and photos seized. She emphasizes how they should be only involving staff that are trustworthy. She points out previous breaches by defense.
10/9 MS has formal interview with LE and turns over all documentation including messages and screenshots implicating all parties all signs lead to defense leak.
10/10 ISP detective sent to get a statement from RF to determine a) gather photos and delete from his phone b) find out who he got them from and who he distributed to. RF refuses to answer questions, states he wants an attorney.
10/10 AFTER RF refuses to answer questions-AB informs NMc that that MW accessed crime scene photos from conference room some time in August and “leaked” to RF and then RF leaked to other individuals.
10/11 RF makes statement to his wife that he needs to “ come clean” about where he got the photos. 10:00pm RF commits suicide.
10/12 4:07am NMc informs JG,AB and BR of the suicide and briefs them of their interactions. This email also informs JG that leak originated with defense.
10/12 JG orders defense to cease work on case. I wonder why.
Now when you align these timelines it becomes very obvious which party was skirting the truth (ie:lying) and trying to CYA.

AB/BR were trying to distance from the leakers because they know it’s gross negligence.
But evidence may show that in actuality the leakers were not snookering but invited to the table and evidence shared against court order.

I am sure this investigation is still ongoing and time will tell just how gross the negligence was.

My heart hurts for the families of these two bright and beautiful girls. They endured enough already it’s absolutely heart breaking these girls were exploited in death.

Great timeline, thank you!

To add, from a Sleuthie re-post of a timeline from a page called The Unraveling:

10/5/23- Podcasters receive crime scene photos & alert Jerry Holeman

10/6/23 1:30pm- YouTuber makes post saying he has photos from anonymous email

10/6/23 4pm- Defense emails Gull & McLeland. Subject: "Leaked Info". They just learned of "leak" & McLeland knew 24-30 hrs ago

10/7/23- FB group admin S.E.A. says she received photos from anonymous email (her email address not listed anywhere). She later deletes this comment 10/8/23 4:39am- Westfield police "assist other agency" at the home of M.W. (search warrant?

10/8/23 11am- Gull emails back. Subject: "Re: Leaked Info". Wants to ensure Podcasters/ Youtuber have been interviewed & that "LE" (which one?) is investigating

10/8/23: Youtuber says he contacted Holeman & was instructed to delete photos & Holeman didn't ask about email address that sent him the photos

10/10/23 8:30am- Report of Found or Lost Property at home of R.F. (confirming)

10/10/23 Unk. Time- "ISP" (Holeman?) tries to interview R.F. while at work at US AFB in Fort Wayne. R.F. declines, says he will contact lawyer 10/10/23 Afternoon- 4-way call w/ Gull, McLeland and Defense. Defense informs them M.W. stole info/pics in Aug & shared w/ R.F.

10/11/23- Richard Allen pens letter to judge saying Prosecution trying to D his defense & he wishes to keep them as his counsel

10/11/23 7:24pm- 911 call from home of R.F. reporting Male w/Back Pain

10/11/23 9:04pm- 911 call from home of R.F. reporting a Male is Shot

10/12/23 3:53am- McLeland emails Gull & Defense informing of R.F 's death via "an
ISP Detective". Has info pertaining to his wife's statements, Manner & COD 10/12/23 7am- Gull responds; instructs Defense to "cease all work" on Allen's case.

10/14/23- Podcasters that recv'd photos on 10/5 release episode 'piecing together' how this 'leak' unfolded & describe it verbatim to McLeland's 10/12 email.

10/16/23- Westfield Police go to home of M.W. for Misc.

https://x.com/the_unraveling8/status/1721016301689180444?s=46&t=rlxmmTQVKLhzP78ILfWjKQ

 

[Jurisprudence]

Surely not all of it, just enough for a judge to sign the search warrant?

That's the way it "could" be, meaning, that's all they need to do. But that's not "what" they did. They said a lot.
jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, I believe it was said, by MS, that podcaster was sitting next to H when H was very loudly speaking in the courtroom before the hearing started.

Yes, and saying not very nice things in front of the gallery. Such class, um not.

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

In all fairness, you're assuming that the defense leaked these. You are not even considering or entertaining whether MW did this on his own accord for money.

jmo

Yes you are correct. I admit it!
I have lost trust in this particular defense team by their actions leading up to this point.
Perhaps it is an occupational hazard, but it seems like sometimes there can be a slippery slope to being a good defense attorney and becoming so accustomed to bending the truth that it is no longer recognized.

 

[zh0r4]

SBM, Thank you for putting together this timeline!
IMO MW saying to others that he was invited by the D doesn't necessarily mean he was invited -- he could be lying in order to make himself appear more important and informed than he is, and making stuff up or referencing things he had seen while sneaking into the office. Or, combining what he was actually told while legitimately collaborating with what he had sneaked access to.
In addition, RF being a recipient of the leak when he was previously collaborating with AB/BR, may indicate that he did not have access to the photos when collaborating with them, and needed to be 'leaked' to.
Did MS indicate what types of leaks they were sent - were they pictures of photos printed out, or pictures of a screen, or both?
I know that there were reports of a previous leak that had been pictures of a screen from almost a year ago, which coincides with Chris Todd of CourtTV reporting he had been sent CS photos 12/3/22 and planned to release them.

(@7mins, he says that he received them from "LEO whistleblowers" and that there is "creepy posing and staging")

MW in his affidavit cops to pictures taken of printed out photos:
View attachment 458670

Even though I personally wouldn't say from what I know that I think AB/BR were actually the ones leaking, IMO it isn't a good look that they were involved with MW at all let alone leaving such photos lying around without locking them up.

Ugh, I need to stop being distracted from my work, but it's hard to focus on anything but these developments!

Are conference rooms usually unlocked or would one typically lock them? Does “conference room” mean not Baldwin’s office? Is a conference room shared with multiple people or does each individual have their own conference room? I wonder what the meeting with AB was about?

 

[Jurisprudence]

Yes you are correct. I admit it!
I have lost trust in this particular defense team by their actions leading up to this point.
Perhaps it is an occupational hazard, but it seems like sometimes there can be a slippery slope to being a good defense attorney and becoming so accustomed to bending the truth that it is no longer recognized.

I think this is precisely the problem. We would know the answers to a lot of questions if the judge had only held that hearing. She should have held the hearing. RA's constitutional rights demanded it, even though I realize there are people not happy with that. Why did MW take them. And, what was the other person's (RF?) involvement in this to a point where he felt he had to take his life? How much and what parts of this was he involved in? Was it limited to the photos? Did he possess other information directly relevant to the case? This is a crazy situation.
jmo

 

[zh0r4]

Order issued with deadline 11/16

11/06/2023

Order Issued Any briefs opposing issuance of the writ or any supplemental records must be filed directly with the Clerk of the Supreme Court on or before Thursday, November 16, 2023. Any supplemental record must be submitted in the same format required for the record under Original Action Rule 3(C) and (G). Once briefing is completed, the Court will take the matter under advisement. Judicial Officer: Rush, Loretta H. Serve: Gull, Frances M. Cutino Serve: Wieneke, Cara Schaefer Serve: Rokita, Theodore Edward Serve: Trial Clerk 08 - Carroll Serve: Leeman, Mark Kelly Serve: Sanchez, Angela Serve: Supreme Court Public Information Officer File Stamp: 11/06/2023

Thank you! Here is a pic of the Order if anyone is having trouble downloading:

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes you are correct. I admit it!
I have lost trust in this particular defense team by their actions leading up to this point.
Perhaps it is an occupational hazard, but it seems like sometimes there can be a slippery slope to being a good defense attorney and becoming so accustomed to bending the truth that it is no longer recognized.

110% The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, and I've never had that feeling or made that statement in all of the cases I've followed here. It's deep gut instinct.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

One of our members was questioning the relationship between Baldwin and Hennessy.
Here's the answer; it's from a general summary of JG's complaints
Pg 224

f. Mr. Baldwin had "hired" lawyer to represent him in this matter.

Allen's Response: This is/was not true. Mr. Baldwin was betrayed by friend
and there was subsequent related suicide. As friend and colleague, David R. Hennessy, suggested he needed lawyer to speak on his behalf and he
volunteered, no fee was arranged between the two. The Court also alleged
undersigned had put volatile facts in the memorandum regarding possible
sanctions or disqualification. The true facts in criminal case are often
volatile. There was no untruth.

Record of Proceedings.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[zh0r4]

I'm curious about the Record of Proceedings in the two SC appeals.
Are these two versions the same or has the latest one grown in size?
These aren't clickable but we have the one from 10/30.
If the second one has more info, it would be great if we had it.
How many pages are in a volume?

10/30/2023

Record of Proceedings (Original Action) Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 10/30/23 Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 10/30/2023

11/06/2023

Record of Proceedings (Original Action) - Two (2) Volumes Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 11/06/2023

Record of Proceedings Vol. 1, filed 11/6 (246 pages)

Record of Proceedings Volume 1.pdf

drive.google.com

Record of Proceedings Vol. 2, filed 11/6 (41 pages)

Record of Proceedings Volume 2.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree. And, I think this is precisely the problem. We would know the answers to a lot of questions if the judge had only held that hearing. She should have held the hearing. RA's constitutional rights demanded it, even though I realize there are people not happy with that. Why did MW take them. And, what was the other person's (RF?) involvement in this to a point where he felt he had to take his life? How much and what parts of this was he involved in? Was it limited to the photos? Did he possess other information directly relevant to the case? This is a crazy situation.
jmo

There is nothing good that came from MW's supposed 'taking without permission' of the photos and I believe will we hear much more about the bad. I mean one man committed suicide, does that not speak to the gravity of the situation? This dude (MW) didn't even pass the Bar, he isn't a licensed attorney.

I've never heard of such egregious behavior by anyone associated with a Defense attorney working on an especially high profile, confidential and privileged case.

Mind blowing to say the least.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

One of our members was questioning the relationship between Baldwin and Hennessy.
Here's the answer; it's from a general summary of JG's complaints
Pg 224

f. Mr. Baldwin had "hired" lawyer to represent him in this matter.

Allen's Response: This is/was not true. Mr. Baldwin was betrayed by friend
and there was subsequent related suicide. As friend and colleague, David R. Hennessy, suggested he needed lawyer to speak on his behalf and he
volunteered, no fee was arranged between the two. The Court also alleged
undersigned had put volatile facts in the memorandum regarding possible
sanctions or disqualification. The true facts in criminal case are often
volatile. There was no untruth.

Record of Proceedings.pdf

drive.google.com

Even if AB didn't pay him, he was still represented by DH during those hearings.

MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

MW just mozied into the conference room and then noticed photos laying there? The chairs that I'm sure are outside AB's office and conference room were too shabby to sit on and wait? Not one person eyeballed him in a room which held extremely confidential evidence? Yeah I think something smells in this explanation. AJMO

or ... maybe smells like boundary issues. jmo

 

[sunshineray]

That's the way it "could" be, meaning, that's all they need to do. But that's not "what" they did. They said a lot.
jmo

I think there will be much more laid out by the prosecution at the appropriate time. Seems the defense just wanting all their stuff and then some out in the public eye to try the case there instead of the courtroom...in January. They were never going to be ready for a January trial and would have asked for a continuance which JG would have granted, AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think this is precisely the problem. We would know the answers to a lot of questions if the judge had only held that hearing. She should have held the hearing. RA's constitutional rights demanded it, even though I realize there are people not happy with that. Why did MW take them. And, what was the other person's (RF?) involvement in this to a point where he felt he had to take his life? How much and what parts of this was he involved in? Was it limited to the photos? Did he possess other information directly relevant to the case? This is a crazy situation.
jmo

I think maybe the precise problem was negligence, libelous defense theory being made public along with children's death scene photos and even collusion of numerous people labeled now as only zealous representation of a client. A big crazy mess that keeps growing of lawyers breaking rules and doing wrong by their client and trying to make it look like they're crusaders.
ALL just my opinion.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

I don't know where all these docs are coming from... but here is the Ex Parte Pleading from 10/12 submitted by Rozzi (found on reddit)

 

[sunshineray]

or ... maybe smells like boundary issues. jmo

Ehh smells like collusion to me, AJMO