IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170

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Are conference rooms usually unlocked or would one typically lock them? Does “conference room” mean not Baldwin’s office? Is a conference room shared with multiple people or does each individual have their own conference room? I wonder what the meeting with AB was about?
My defense attorney father didn't lock his conference room but he also didn't leave important sealed discovery docs in the room with no one else there.

And usually conference rooms are back in the private areas of the office, Typically there is a front lobby/waiting area and the reception desk. NO ONE can just walk past the desk and go into the conference rooms or offices without the front desk person inviting them in and also telling the attorney or legal assistant they are coming in.
 
I would like to see Judge Gull removed and Baldwin and Rozzi reinstated. Otherwise, any conviction of Allen stands a good chance to be reversed on appeal. MOO
The only way that JG remains and B and R are removed is if the appellate courts agree to it after this upcoming appellate review.

If that happens, there won't be an appeal on this decision, IMO.
 
What you're missing is that a judge can not remove a defendant's attorneys against their wishes and against the defendant's wishes,
I don't think that is legally correct. I do think court appointed attorneys can be 'fired' for cause.

and table the motions filed by those attorneys.
If the attorneys had already orally withdrawn in chambers, then the judge can table their motions. It wasn't probably the best decision but it is a legal issue that is going to be worked through this week.
What a mess! I fully expect Gull to be removed a judge and the two attorneys reinstated, IMO.
These 2 attorneys aren't doing RA any favours. They are going to put him into a LWOP sentence if they continue as they have been.

The jury is not going to believe that a cult of Odin prison guards killed the girls in a forest ritual sacrifice that day.
 
So regardless of your feelings on the security of Baldwin's conference room, consider this from the petition brief:
No Indiana court has ever tolerated a trial judge removing a lawyer from a case, over the client’s objection, based on the judge’s subjective belief the lawyer is negligent, or even “grossly negligent.” And courts across the country regularly issue extraordinary writs in criminal cases to reinstate defense attorneys who have been kicked off cases for conduct the trial court found upsetting or negligent. See State v. Huskey, 82 S.W.3d 297, 311 (Tenn. Crim. App. 2002); Smith v. Superior Ct. of Los Angeles Cnty., 440 P.2d 65, 75 (Sup. Ct. Cal. 1968); Stearnes v. Clinton, 780 S.W.2d 216, 223 (Tex. Crim. App. 1989); Buntion v. Harmon, 827 S.W.2d 945 (Tex. Ct. Crim. App. 1992); Finkelstein v. State, 574 So. 2d 1164, 1168 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1991).
The big legal question is whether the court had any authority to remove RA's attorneys, even if you buy the narrative the state is peddling about the leak.
 
So regardless of your feelings on the security of Baldwin's conference room, consider this from the petition brief:

The big legal question is whether the court had any authority to remove RA's attorneys, even if you buy the narrative the state is peddling about the leak.
I'm not clear as to what narrative the State is 'peddling' about the leak? Could you link or explain? Thanks
 
I'm not clear as to what narrative the State is 'peddling' about the leak? Could you link or explain? Thanks
Well, through the record submitted to the Supreme Court we know the state asked for the defense attorneys to be DQd. Weirdly, and unless I'm missing something, the guy who originally disseminated the materials is out giving interviews and not under arrest. There was no benefit to defense with leaking crime scene photos. Another weird thing is that prosecution knew about the leak at least a day before the attorneys who were eventually removed and (at least on record) did not notify the court (or the other party) before the defense.

But from the legal arguments in the brief, I get the sense getting into the weeds of the leak is missing the point. Even if D's actions were negligent or grossly negligent, constitutional protections of the accused very well might outweigh that and prevent their removal. Other remedies were available to the court, such as sanctions or bar actions.
 
Well, through the record submitted to the Supreme Court we know the state asked for the defense attorneys to be DQd. Weirdly, and unless I'm missing something, the guy who originally disseminated the materials is out giving interviews and not under arrest. There was no benefit to defense with leaking crime scene photos. Another weird thing is that prosecution knew about the leak at least a day before the attorneys who were eventually removed and (at least on record) did not notify the court (or the other party) before the defense.

But from the legal arguments in the brief, I get the sense getting into the weeds of the leak is missing the point. Even if D's actions were negligent or grossly negligent, constitutional protections of the accused very well might outweigh that and prevent their removal. Other remedies were available to the court, such as sanctions or bar actions.


I am from the UK so thankfully a completely different system here. But photos leaked from the defenses office is grossly negligent especially when you consider these were all murdered children. It’s amazing being a outsider looking in that this system that something like this can happen and yet seemingly protected.

MOO
 
I am from the UK so thankfully a completely different system here. But photos leaked from the defenses office is grossly negligent especially when you consider these were all murdered children. It’s amazing being a outsider looking in that this system that something like this can happen and yet seemingly protected.

MOO

I can get the confusion, obviously it's confusing to us Americans as well which is why a higher court has been asked to rule on the issues. The discovery materials, from my understanding, are under a court-ordered protective order. (Side note: separate from the much-discussed "gag order", which is meant to prevent parties talking out of court about the case.) But as far as whether negligent handling of discovery materials gives the court the authority to interfere with a defendant's right to counsel, a constitutional right, courts have to weigh those issues against each other all the time with deference given to constitutional rights of course.
 
Well, through the record submitted to the Supreme Court we know the state asked for the defense attorneys to be DQd. Weirdly, and unless I'm missing something, the guy who originally disseminated the materials is out giving interviews and not under arrest. There was no benefit to defense with leaking crime scene photos. Another weird thing is that prosecution knew about the leak at least a day before the attorneys who were eventually removed and (at least on record) did not notify the court (or the other party) before the defense.

But from the legal arguments in the brief, I get the sense getting into the weeds of the leak is missing the point. Even if D's actions were negligent or grossly negligent, constitutional protections of the accused very well might outweigh that and prevent their removal. Other remedies were available to the court, such as sanctions or bar actions.
MW's Exhibit U page 33 dated Oct 18th does not specify what date he was in AB's office and took those pictures. That makes me curious. Now that he has signed and notarized an affidavit to that effect, I am sure there will be some charges coming.

Distributing pictures of naked children, especially grotesquely displayed homicide victims is a crime. He then sent it the man who committed suicide and it was further disseminated to various podcast and media content people. How is this not a punishable offense? Theft, CSAM just to start.

Record of Proceedings Volume 2.pdf

MOO
 
So regardless of your feelings on the security of Baldwin's conference room, consider this from the petition brief:

The big legal question is whether the court had any authority to remove RA's attorneys, even if you buy the narrative the state is peddling about the leak.
Maybe this is the first time this particular type of grossly negligent conduct has happened? It's the first I've ever heard of it. At the time of the leak, RA's defense team was court appointed. Judge Gull did have authority over them and their conduct and both agreed to withdraw on the 19th hearing in chambers rather than the Judge read the findings into the record in Open Court with the Media present.

The Defense had been begging for cameras allowed. Funny that...then they changed their mind because they were under duress. Hah, 2 attorneys with 50+ combined experience were under duress??? Knowing full well what MW had done and were going to be called out on it? Not buying it.

I think they said that in chambers to save face in open Court, knowing the whole time they would do exactly what they are doing now. Just one more example of how underhanded and sneaky they have been throughout this entire case.

I want RA to have good, solid representation with no chance of appellate issues of misconduct or ineffective counsel, so that when he goes to trial and if found guilty, there will be some justice for the true victims here: Abby & Libby.

MOO
 
MW's Exhibit U page 33 dated Oct 18th does not specify what date he was in AB's office and took those pictures. That makes me curious. Now that he has signed and notarized an affidavit to that effect, I am sure there will be some charges coming.

Distributing pictures of naked children, especially grotesquely displayed homicide victims is a crime. He then sent it the man who committed suicide and it was further disseminated to various podcast and media content people. How is this not a punishable offense? Theft, CSAM just to start.

Record of Proceedings Volume 2.pdf

MOO
Yeah this is something I can't wrap my head around. They have a sworn affidavit from this guy admitting what he did, they have ISP chasing down those involved with the dissemination, but he hasn't faced any repercussions yet except reputation damage.
 
Yeah this is something I can't wrap my head around. They have a sworn affidavit from this guy admitting what he did, they have ISP chasing down those involved with the dissemination, but he hasn't faced any repercussions yet except reputation damage.
I'm just going to make a guess and say there are charges pending this legal motion against AB&Rozzi and Judge Gull.

JMO

EBM: Corrected name
 
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One truly needs to be a Legal Eagle to be able to follow all of the legalese, motions and leaks and news releases these days. It's so different from the long, quiet days when we impatiently awaited an arrest or more recently as we plodded slowly toward trial but 2023 has been wild. Whew.
It really is a complicated and confusing turn of events.

I am starting to wonder if it’s not all being orchestrated by design. Defense tactics to create distraction from the charges against their client.

jmo
 
It really is a complicated and confusing turn of events.

I am starting to wonder if it’s not all being orchestrated by design. Defense tactics to create distraction from the charges against their client.

jmo
The defense can't be blamed for everything.

What JG did to the Chronological Case Summary was just plain wrong and she's been ordered to take her document dump and put those documents back where where they belong.

As for the legal stuff... it's out of my realm of expertise. lol...
 
Justice for those Abby and Libby and a fair trial for RA.

It still makes my mind explode with questions and confusion why the Judge treated Baldwin and Rozzi the same…..when one seemed to be in error more.

Then the Judges actions in chambers without RA there and no open record of it …

I honestly believe the only way a fair trial will happen is if the Judge is excused, Baldwin is removed and Rozzi takes the lead for the defense.

Then the new Judge conduct the trial and decisions in the court room.

The idea of the Judge staying and the trial being moved back… the prosecution having time to refine their case and a new defense team rushing to wade through the mountain of evidence gathered doesn’t seem fair.

The case needs to start moving again and Abby and Libby’s families get answers and justice instead of this.
 
The defense can't be blamed for everything.

What JG did to the Chronological Case Summary was just plain wrong and she's been ordered to take her document dump and put those documents back where where they belong.

As for the legal stuff... it's out of my realm of expertise. lol...
I blame defense for the photo leak that started the latest chain of events in the debacle. I know.. it does go back further. It’s been a mess ever since Diener recused himself. If I want to get really upset, I could go back to the multiple sketches or trampled crime scene. Argggghhhh
 
MW's Exhibit U page 33 dated Oct 18th does not specify what date he was in AB's office and took those pictures. That makes me curious. Now that he has signed and notarized an affidavit to that effect, I am sure there will be some charges coming.

Distributing pictures of naked children, especially grotesquely displayed homicide victims is a crime. He then sent it the man who committed suicide and it was further disseminated to various podcast and media content people. How is this not a punishable offense? Theft, CSAM just to start.

Record of Proceedings Volume 2.pdf

MOO
Didn't the unfortunate suicide occur following an ISP interview? I don't think it was an easy interview to experience when coupled with a man who already suffered from PTSD. The extra stress was likely compounded and amplified, thusly, triggering panic. ATT, I believe those involved in the leak were people who wanted the Odin theory shut down. The leak was meant to destroy the Defense in every way possible. They wanted the D attorneys removed, imo. The J wants it shut down, too. The P wants the DTeam disqualified. Are they afraid of the evidence of a blood sacrifice to Odin?

This case is dangerous and always has been terrifying. Didn't the first Judge recuse himself due to threats made against his family? Didn't the lady who conducted the polygraphs die in an unexplained fire? The horrific murders of A&L came from a demented mind or one behaving irrationally but aren't murders always conducted from a place of evil we don't easily understand?

At WS, there's an entire forum on JonBenet Ramsey that includes numerous threads of actual crime scene photos. With sensitivity and respect, we've studied the cracks in her skull, the knots tied in the rope and the damage to her little neck. Personally, I don't want to see the bodies of the two precious victims but I do want to understand their CS.
 
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