IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

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would like to read the motion itself if any one has a link to it. Sounds as if it relies on the previous motion for some of it's content. I am curious to read the writing style of new counsel so I can see what it looks like in contrast to old counsel.
 
I just read the actual filing - the motion to move RA to a county facility and I'm impressed with the standard of writing (compared against former attorneys for RA), and also surprised to learn that there is a guard who didn't wear an Odin patch but, "one of the guards did have a symbolic face tattoo of Odin's Spear..." (snipped from the motion). The lawyer went on to note that the guard's personal social media has Odin symbols etc visible to the public. While I'm not sure a guard's personal FB should be at issue, I am wondering how the hell a guard at such a facility can get away with a face tattoo of this nature?

The motion goes on to describe RA as being shackled in a manner akin to that of Hannibal Lecter in the book / film Silence of the Lambs. That is atrocious and it seems overkill to me!!

What he was found trying to gouge his eyes out or rip his tongue out? Would that change your mind?
 
I suspect if he is walled in behind glass and only gets his food through a slot in the door it is a precaution due to the large stink that has already been made about how guards allegedly intimidated him and had conversations with him that caused him to confess to the murders. Glass or clear cell walls would be easier to monitor if someone is speaking to prisoner, if prisoner is harming himself, if prisoner is being harmed or threatened by a guard, etc. not sure about the shackles business. I could see them being used if a prisoner was a threat to others' his own safety.
 
The request also describes a guard at the prison who has “a symbolic face tattoo of Odin’s Spear and multiple hand and finger tattoos emblematic of Odinism and/or Norse mythology. This same prison guard had a public Facebook account that also displayed the same tattoos in addition to a necklace with “Thor’s Hammer” inscribed with the letters BRSRCR, an acronym for “berserker” which is a very specific type of Norse battle ax and the name given to warriors fighting in honor of Odin. Other photos displayed three interlocking triangles; another symbol associated with Odinism.”
Richard Allen's new attorneys request his transfer, allege mistreatment

so a guard's tattoos are now indications of a conspiracy to intimidate RA :rolleyes:

This just tells me that RA's new attorneys have nowhere to go with their defense either and must continue down this scary group of Odinists ritually sacrificed these girls and for reasons unknown LE and the DA have framed poor RA path that previous defense put forth. GMAFB JMO
Seems to me that after seeing how the previous defense team were ridiculed for their allegations, most attorneys would scrupulously try to avoid them. Or perhaps IN has an apparent high percentage of lying clown lawyers?

I was almost convinced myself that at least one of the two previous attorneys was being overdramatic; now I'm back to believing that where there's smoke there is fire.

Seems like the new team could petition based on driving distance & lack of access alone. Why add in the rest- the Odinist tattoos, the unusually harsh holding conditions, the obvious coming of their client- if there's nothing to it?
 
One can laugh, sneer and roll their eyes but the fact remains the CS appears to be related to Odinism.

From the WISHTV.com link from above:

View attachment 474140
disagree. I haven't seen the crime scene. Some who have think so. Some who have don't. Old defense did. New defense team relies heavily on what was previously alleged by old team. Doesn't make it so. MOO

Until I have seen the CS photos and heard this malarky from someone besides the defense, like an expert at trial with experience in such things, I will continue to roll my eyes JMO MOO
 
@Niner
01/12/2024Motion Filed
Motion to Transfer Richard Allen
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 01/12/2024
from above:

On September 18, 2023, prior counsel filed a motion for a Frank’s Hearing, in support of
their previously filed Motion to Suppress. Prior counsel included a 136-page
Memorandum with 126 confidential exhibits. The memorandum and exhibits, among
other things, alleged prison guards at Westville Correctional Facility were allowed to
wear patches on their official uniforms supporting Odinism, and that crime scene photos
suggested a potential connection to Odinism (a Nordic religion and/or cult that has been
associated, both in the prison system and in society in general, with white supremacy).

After reviewing crime scene photos and visiting Mr. Allen at Westville Correctional
Facility, present counsel believes these claims have merit,
and that pre-trial incarceration
within the State Prison System negatively impacts Mr. Allen’s rights, in addition to
counsel’s ability to effectively represent him.

I daresay new D has adopted an old D's defense theory contained in the Frank's Memo plus Exhibits, using it as argument for this motion to transfer.

and O - O - Oh my, I am not at all surprised.
 
What he was found trying to gouge his eyes out or rip his tongue out? Would that change your mind?
It might. But if that were the case, wouldn't we have his counsel filing for him to be moved to a county facility? Would such a place be equipped to deal with such self harm by prisoners?
 
I suspect if he is walled in behind glass and only gets his food through a slot in the door it is a precaution due to the large stink that has already been made about how guards allegedly intimidated him and had conversations with him that caused him to confess to the murders. Glass or clear cell walls would be easier to monitor if someone is speaking to prisoner, if prisoner is harming himself, if prisoner is being harmed or threatened by a guard, etc. not sure about the shackles business. I could see them being used if a prisoner was a threat to others' his own safety.
I was wondering, this cell with the food slot opening, is that where RA is held normally? Or was that just where they brought him to for access to his lawyers?
 
One can laugh, sneer and roll their eyes but the fact remains the CS appears to be related to Odinism.

From the WISHTV.com link from above:

View attachment 474140
Totally agree.
We haven't seen all the crime scene photos; only descriptions of two of them. I believe there is a whole lot more to the crime scene than we're aware of. I remember the descriptions from people who have seen it.
 
Seems to me that after seeing how the previous defense team were ridiculed for their allegations, most attorneys would scrupulously try to avoid them. Or perhaps IN has an apparent high percentage of lying clown lawyers?

I was almost convinced myself that at least one of the two previous attorneys was being overdramatic; now I'm back to believing that where there's smoke there is fire.

Seems like the new team could petition based on driving distance & lack of access alone. Why add in the rest- the Odinist tattoos, the unusually harsh holding conditions, the obvious coming of their client- if there's nothing to it?
Because it gives them a basis to appeal a guilty verdict later on. They're just documenting what they've observed, and how it could negative affect RA's right to a fair trial (eg: lack of timely access to his counsel, inability to review video / documents given the type of holding he was in, possible intimidation by staff etc). They may not seem relevant to the matter right now, but they're laying the groundwork for a future appeal should he be found guilty.
 
I was wondering, this cell with the food slot opening, is that where RA is held normally? Or was that just where they brought him to for access to his lawyers?
The motion says that the new prison has no room setup for meetings with lawyers, so they had to meet him in what appeared to be a prep-kitchen with a cell built-in for feeding prisoners. They could only communicate with him through the small slot in the cell door that was meant for passing food into the cell. They weren't allowed to come within 6 feet of the door and thus couldn't show him any documents and had to yell so that they could be heard.
 

The motion says that the new prison has no room setup for meetings with lawyers, so they had to meet him in what appeared to be a prep-kitchen with a cell built-in for feeding prisoners. They could only communicate with him through the small slot in the cell door that was meant for passing food into the cell. They weren't allowed to come within 6 feet of the door and thus couldn't show him any documents and had to yell so that they could be heard.
Which, is absurd! Why insist that counsel sit 6 feet away? Is there some as yet unpublicized indication that RA is a danger to himself or to his counsel??
 
Frankly, I wish the judge would order him moved. Not because I buy the Odinists are after him crock of crap, but because I believe he has a need for adequate counsel and this has become a bigger deal than it needs to be, such that we are losing sight of the trees for the forest as it were.

Just move the guy closer to his counsel in a facility better suited to him being able to meet with counsel and participate in his own defense. H*ll, I'd have no objection to him being moved back to county jail.

I have to admit, I don't get the judge's thinking in not simply moving RA.
 
Frankly, I wish the judge would order him moved. Not because I buy the Odinists are after him crock of crap, but because I believe he has a need for adequate counsel and this has become a bigger deal than it needs to be, such that we are losing sight of the trees for the forest as it were.

Just move the guy closer to his counsel in a facility better suited to him being able to meet with counsel and participate in his own defense. H*ll, I'd have no objection to him being moved back to county jail.

I have to admit, I don't get the judge's thinking in not simply moving RA.
Its a gamble and no judge wants the liability for his death in the event that another facility cannot manage to keep him safe be it from himself or other prisoners. In considering the motion, if I were the judge, I'd do some research and find out where he could be housed safely and whether any staff he might be in contact with / or who may be visible to him are sporting Odin patches or tattoos etc. Then, if he could be kept safe, and no such issue was found amongst the staff, then I'd go ahead and move him there. That way, it shuts up the counsel from screaming about Odins etc.

If he cannot be moved closer, then what accommodations can be made, if any to ensure he is more accessible to his counsel? Can changes be made to where / how they meet? Could he be brought closer to counsel for a weekly meeting or something? I have no idea how they might manage that issue safely or if it can be done.
 
Random flourishes (not theory) that jumped out in the motion upon a first quick read:

New D argues that RA's confinement conditions are "FATAL" (as to impact on defense's ability to provide effective defense). (nice one, IMO)

Also, Hannibal Lecter is referenced, (in terms of RA's chains), although Scremin spells Hannibal's name wrong. (oops)

1. I'm going to have to be annoyed with Scremin for the Hannibal misspelling - but only for 24 hours or so. :rolleyes:

and

2. I'm weighing the wisdom of comparing one's client to Hannibal Lecter ... for any reason ... so, I may consider extending the annoyed with Scremin time. :oops:

just a little MOO ;) as to "flourishes/tone/style of the new D... worth noting ... on this first shot over the bow.
 
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Random flourishes (not theory) that jumped out in the motion upon a first quick read:

New D argues that RA's confinement conditions are "FATAL" (as to impact on defense's ability to provide effective defense). (nice one, IMO)

Also, Hannibal Lecter is referenced, (in terms of RA's chains), although Scremin spells Hannibal's name wrong. (oops)

1. I'm going to have to be annoyed with Scremin for the Hannibal misspelling - but only for 24 hours or so. :rolleyes:

and

2. I'm weighing the wisdom of comparing one's client to Hannibal Lecter ... for any reason ... so, I may consider extending the annoyed with Scremin time. :oops:

just a little MOO ;) as to "flourishes/tone/style of the new D...
I share your annoyance with this egregious error in spelling of Hannibal!! I also did wonder if it was wise to compare RA's confinement to that of this particular character who was known as a cannibal! It did make me wonder if we're just not yet aware of some concerns around self harm or a risk of harm to his counsel or others? I wonder if we'll get a response filing from the prosecution that outlines why these measures were taken / are necessary?
 
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