IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

[girlhasnoname]

SBMFF
Well, I for one would not hold you to it! Golf visors don’t digest well and I would hate to see you in the ER explaining that!

I appreciate we don’t agree on this case, but I just cannot take the leap and pronounce him guilty based on the evidence, or lack thereof, we’ve seen. I also understand there are cases where the perp has pretty much convicted himself, Morphew, (should it ever go to trial), because he’s a complete imbecile. RA’s situation strikes me as very different. I’m convinced this crime was committed by more than one person. It may also have been committed FOR someone, who hides in the shadows of his chosen “brotherhood.”

No, I’m willing to wait to see what the actual evidence against RA is or did he just have the misfortune of being at the trails that day and being honest enough to come forward. Are there any connections at all with the Rushville clan? Any connections to KAK or the AS’s account? Some way, somehow, someone knew the girls would be there. From what I’ve learned, there could be a number of motives for this heinous crime, which I am not able to express here. I’m fine with that. That’s what the trial is for.

Something stinks in Delphi (and area) and not to heaven. More like to the pits of hell. JMHO

You'd make a good juror SQ, waiting to get all the info before coming to a decision. I admit, I'm a gut follower. No proper word for that, maybe instinctive? LOL

I do absolutely agree that someone knew those girls were supposed to be there and I am still very open to the fact that RA had some type of help in this also.

Agreed that stuff stinks in Delphi and this case. Things will move forward after the SCOIN one way or another.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I agree and add that, the only source concerning RA’s living conditions and his supposed abuse in prison is, once again, the defense.
Just like the only true source of Odinism involvement in the Franks memo was the ex-defense’s imagination and opinion.
Just like the only source of RA’s POW-like treatment and abuse last spring was the over the top misrepresentations and lies of the ex-defense.

Horrendous prison conditions have been reported in the news many, many times. IMO, too many times to blow them off.

We know the D told the truth about the Odin badges on the guards and about the atty/client meetings being video taped. We know the badges disappeared and the video taping stopped prior to the issue coming before the judge. How many of the other things were changed prior to?

JG never made a surprise visit to see exactly what his living conditions were/are. All of the the attys, plus whoever was accompanying them, did. She decided to take Galipeau's word for it. Had she done her due diligence, she might have come away with a different outlook. Do you think if a person will lie about one thing, they probably will lie about another if a situation calls for it?

I believe most of the things the D said were true but maybe a couple were exaggerated a bit. Is living in an 8 x 12 cell that much better than living in a 6 x 10 (or whatever those numbers are)? Maybe whoever stated the room was 6 x 10 didn't have a tape measure on them.

If you can find the affidavit from the new D's, you'll get a bit more information.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Horrendous prison conditions have been reported in the news many, many times. IMO, too many times to blow them off.

We know the D told the truth about the Odin badges on the guards and about the atty/client meetings being video taped. We know the badges disappeared and the video taping stopped prior to the issue coming before the judge. How many of the other things were changed prior to?

JG never made a surprise visit to see exactly what his living conditions were/are. All of the the attys, plus whoever was accompanying them, did. She decided to take Galipeau's word for it. Had she done her due diligence, she might have come away with a different outlook. Do you think if a person will lie about one thing, they probably will lie about another if a situation calls for it?

I believe most of the things the D said were true but maybe a couple were exaggerated a bit. Is living in an 8 x 12 cell that much better than living in a 6 x 10 (or whatever those numbers are)? Maybe whoever stated the room was 6 x 10 didn't have a tape measure on them.

If you can find the affidavit from the new D's, you'll get a bit more information.

I have seen the new defense team’s information.
Gosh, FrostedGlass, we have been down a lot of roads in this case together and I know we both want justice for Libby and Abby and also RA. I have tons of respect for you and that has not and will not change.
On this one issue, though, we disagree. I see it entirely different than you do, and that’s OK. I’m not going to try and change your mind.
If SCOIN sides with the defense, I’ll except it. It won’t change my opinion of the defense and their methods however. I want a trial with witnesses under oath, and cross examinations. That seems to be the last thing the defense wants.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

DBM.... WRONG THREAD

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have seen the new defense team’s information.
Gosh, FrostedGlass, we have been down a lot of roads in this case together and I know we both want justice for Libby and Abby and also RA. I have tons of respect for you and that has not and will not change.
On this one issue, though, we disagree. I see it entirely different than you do, and that’s OK. I’m not going to try and change your mind.
If SCOIN sides with the defense, I’ll except it. It won’t change my opinion of the defense and their methods however. I want a trial with witnesses under oath, and cross examinations. That seems to be the last thing the defense wants.

The inability to understand why people can't see what I see is one of my many flaws.
You wouldn't want to be around when someone can't smell what I smell. lol

I shouldn't have quoted you; I just should have opined. I promise to do better in the future.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The inability to understand why people can't see what I see is one of my many flaws.
You wouldn't want to be around when someone can't smell what I smell. lol

I shouldn't have quoted you; I just should have opined. I promise to do better in the future.

Not a problem. We both want the same thing.

 

[arielilane]

@cathyrusson

This case!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746006255079182537

 

[steeltowngirl]

One thing is for sure. Despite a gag order, the defense has managed to keep Richard Allen‘s name in the news, painting him as the victim.

jmo

 

[Dotta]

One thing is for sure. Despite a gag order, the defense has managed to keep Richard Allen‘s name in the news, painting him as the victim.

jmo

I only check this thread occasionally waiting for a trial, but...
I was shocked when I saw the picture of the defendant in Press.

Thin, shackled and wearing a dirty uniform (or was it a t-shirt?)

Looking bewildered, intimidated.

Geez,
I couldn't believe it was the same arrogant and overweight man

Hmmm...
Not good IMO
Let's hope he will stay alive till trial.

JMO

ETA
I found this picture

Delphi suspect Richard Allen's lawyers say he's treated like POW

Attorneys for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen, accused of murdering two Indiana teenage girls in 2017, say he's been treated like a prisoner of war in a motion to move him.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think this forbes reference is fully accurate/complete.
This type of appeal is made under 6th and 8th amendment for the purpose of challenging pre-trial holding conditions. It is interesting. Gull's decision denied RA his speedy trial right ... which opens a number of pre-trial appeal avenues. Given it's high profile, RA has benefit of pro-bono appellate counsel (concerned about constitutional rights) ready to challenge the IN lower court here. JHMO

I think it can be argued it was his original defense team and their associate who denied RA a speedy trial. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

This is not relevant to the extremely unusual housing and treatment of RA as a prison inmate. Other defendants not eligible for bail and awaiting trial do not go through any process that determines whether or not they will be held at a county/regional jail or put in a prison, which is only equipped with the means of housing felony convicted and sentenced inmates.

And unfortunately, been down this road already and no, I'm not sympathizing with RA or think he is innocent. Accept it as a fact that I believe everything should be done to ensure the trial and appeals go smoothly to keep RA's dead or in prison for the rest of his life.

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's unusual for a person being charged with double child abduction and child murder to be held without bail. As far as the decisions made as to where that defendant is held, there are important factors considered. One being the defendant's safety, the safety of those around him while in custody and of course flight risk, suicide risk or danger to the community if that defendant is bonded out. The prosecution must show and convince the court reasons why bail should be denied and the County and DOC must then act, with that knowledge, judgement, and actions observed within their job's universe to ensure safety for all. AJMO of what has transpired.

 

[photographer4]

I think it can be argued it was his original defense team and their associate who denied RA a speedy trial. JMO

I disagree with this. His trial wasn't even set to begin until a full year and a bit past his original incarceration date. That isn't even "speedy" to begin with in my view.

 

[Emma Peel]

I disagree with this. His trial wasn't even set to begin until a full year and a bit past his original incarceration date. That isn't even "speedy" to begin with in my view.

I disagree as well, but for a different reason; IMO, there's no logical or legal argument that RA's speedy trial was denied by his Old D.

It is the Defendant's right to a speedy trial (therefore it is the State's and the Court's constitutional obligation to conduct that speedy trial); it is the Defendant's prerogative to waive that speedy trial if not ready for trial; and it is Defendant's right to be held (confined) for trial in a manner that does not violate his rights. These rights are articulated in the 6th and 8th Amendments.

"Speedy" trial is a relative concept. It's flexible within reason and different with each case, each district (caseload) and whether or not delays that occur are deemed reasonable, one delay at a time.

Prior to their dismissal, the Old D had verbally noticed the Court that their client was ready to schedule trial and was NOT going to waive speedy trial.

The SCOIN will hear the arguments the SCOIN has questions about; the arguments will (likely) include considerations of the priority of Defendant's constitutional rights vs Judicial Powers and (perhaps) notice to the defendant, process, deliberation as to the Court's findings of gross negligence/incompetence and removal decision as to the Defendant's preferred counsel. Not sure about the Defendant's right for relief from his current holding situation (I think RA's holding conditions are described in his papers).

JMHO

 

[Emma Peel]

New D's supporting affidavit to motion to move RA to (jail) alternate holding facility

https://x.com/defense_diaries/status/1745896169912349074?s=20

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's unusual for a person being charged with double child abduction and child murder to be held without bail. As far as the decisions made as to where that defendant is held, there are important factors considered. One being the defendant's safety, the safety of those around him while in custody and of course flight risk, suicide risk or danger to the community if that defendant is bonded out. The prosecution must show and convince the court reasons why bail should be denied and the County and DOC must then act, with that knowledge, judgement, and actions observed within their job's universe to ensure safety for all. AJMO of what has transpired.

I don't know what you are disagreeing with, I never said that it was unusual that RA is being held without bail, I've never suggested he should be out on bail, I've made it clear that I think he is guilty.
That is not relevant to his being housed in a prison. All over this country, murder suspects are housed in county jails. RA is no more a threat to the public, himself, or in more danger than a hundred other murderers. I think are unaware of that different and unusual treatment of a specific defendant is not without risk. Making up excuses of why he should be or that it is okay for RA to be at a prison is shortsighted. A number of people tried to claim that other (not convicted) defendants awaiting trial were also being held in prisons, but there aren't any in the same circumstances found. Several horrific cases, that are being followed on WS, have the defendants in the county jails, no one is proposing they be moved to a prison.

 

[mrjitty]

“Alleged” is the important word.

Sure but this stuff shouldn't be in frame at all, and the judge should get to the bottom of it one way or other. For instance the defence seem to be implying in the affidavit upthread that the defendant is being drugged. Well the defendant has access to the defendant's medical records so this should be put into evidence or discounted.

Personally to me it is Kafkaesque that a defendant is held under such alleged conditions without so much as a prelim or bail hearing. I get that it is the defence who decided not to apply for bail and that the state does not have prelims, so to some extent that defence agrees the evidence is strong enough he can be held on remand.

But this stuff really should not be happening. e,g if a 10 hour round trip is accurate, to see a client who is not even in the same room and you can't have a reasonable conversation - does that meet requirements for access? IMO not, but then I have no idea of precedent here, so I simply say as a layman perception it seems crazy ... as alleged

 

[mrjitty]

As far as speedy trial goes, it is worth noting the defence never made application for one. So I take claims that they were about to with a grain of salt.

Of course the opportunity to go to trial as scheduled was lost, but the defence could still file said application any day if they want.

It's kind of bonkers how long these things take to come to trial IMO. I note in other states - e.g. Morphew in Colorado, there was at least a preliminary hearing within 6 months of arrest where it could be determined if there was a case to answer, and whether bail ought to be granted.

This seems preferable to me. But things are not done that way in Indiana

 

[Neopetsprincess]

In Seattle right now, criminal cases are taking 1-3 years to go to trial due to courts being backed up from Covid. I’m sure it’s similar in Indiana.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I am not a real believer in these vast conspiracies the defense puts forward. Especially the cult and how somehow the guards at the jail are in the cult too and harassing him. I also do not believe with such a high profile case as this that there is not a very good reason to keep his attorneys and everyone else protected from him. Everyone wants justice for Abby and Libby and purposely mistreating him or hindering his defense for no reason is just not what is happening because if so, justice won't happen for Abby and Libby. His other attorneys claimed he was mentally ill and maybe that is why the jail takes such extreme precaution when his attorneys visit. We only see one side right now. I know a lot of RA supporters are eating these claims up, but I believe he is bridge guy and I believe this will be shown beyond any shadow of a doubt in court. I dont think anyone, especially the prison guards and warden wants to see this guy walk on some technicality that because he was a danger to his attorneys, special precautions had to be taken therefore he didn't receive adequate representation.

I've also seen that his attorneys want him out of Indiana department of corrections. Where would he go then? I doubt they can put him in federal so how would that work exactly.

I also never forget the interview where Leazenby told us they had DNA.

Does IN not have any privately run correction facilities? That would get him out of IDOC. moo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

As far as speedy trial goes, it is worth noting the defence never made application for one. So I take claims that they were about to with a grain of salt.

Of course the opportunity to go to trial as scheduled was lost, but the defence could still file said application any day if they want.

It's kind of bonkers how long these things take to come to trial IMO. I note in other states - e.g. Morphew in Colorado, there was at least a preliminary hearing within 6 months of arrest where it could be determined if there was a case to answer, and whether bail ought to be granted.

This seems preferable to me. But things are not done that way in Indiana

I thought the right to a speedy trial was protected by each state's constitution?? In Indiana, a defendant must apply for that right?