IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[Emma Peel]

That doesn't come anywhere close to the height estimates, and these weren't back of the envelope estimates.

What height estimates?
(Appreciate the help - I' likely missed these early analysis of BG ... if that's what we're referencing here.)

 

[steeltowngirl]

That doesn't come anywhere close to the height estimates, and these weren't back of the envelope estimates.

The original FBI estimate was 5’6 - 5’8”. His offender page says 5’5”.

We shrink a bit with age. He may have shrunk from laying low for almost 6 years.

 

[tlcya]

The original FBI estimate was 5’6 - 5’8”. His offender page says 5’5”.

We shrink a bit with age. He may have shrunk from laying low for almost 6 years.

UBM
haha I see what you did there.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The original FBI estimate was 5’6 - 5’8”. His offender page says 5’5”.

We shrink a bit with age. He may have shrunk from laying low for almost 6 years.

Thanks @steeltowngirl. I must have been misremembering. I had it in my mind at 5'8"-5'10". Thanks for clarifying for me.

 

[Ravenmoon]

LE always knew that they were looking for a man on the less than average height spectrum.

 

[katydid23]

or 55 inches? which = 4.6 ft.
(I'm sure this has been well-vetted here - sorry to ask this Q so late.)

I've never seen an adults height being written in inches before. I don't think it means 55 inches.

 

[O.Incandenza]

There are a couple of things to to remember:

He was not yet aware that his image was captured by Libby when he went to the Conservation officer.


He also knew that he was seen by the group of girls that day and that they could likely describe him.

It sounds as though he wanted to get ahead of anyone else's narrative.



JMO

The quote @GoBuckeyes is referring to is from his 2022 interview, not the 2017 interview. His clothing wasn't discussed in the 2017 interview, or at least the conservation officer made no mention of it in the report he filed. So RA describing himself wearing similar clothing to BG came years after everyone knew what BG was wearing.

 

[Salah11]

There are a couple of things to to remember:

He was not yet aware that his image was captured by Libby when he went to the Conservation officer.


He also knew that he was seen by the group of girls that day and that they could likely describe him.

It sounds as though he wanted to get ahead of anyone else's narrative.



JMO

Yes he worked in the community and was spotted multiple times on his walk so he wouldn’t have been confident somebody hadn’t recognized him. I believe he even told his wife his was out on the trails that day as well.

IMO

 

[Jade]

5 foot 4?
Wow

Defense is trying to act like RA’s height is somehow a barrier to committing crime.

The Franks memo’s dramatic recitation, absolutely astonished at the thought that a grown man in the prime of life with no known physical restrictions would be able to forge across a shallow stream, point out RA’s height:

3. At some point in time this single, solitary man would have had to cross a cold river whose depth was nearly 3.5 feet. At this depth, if the water were only two feet higher, Richard’s whole body would have been completely immersed, from head to toe

https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

They go on to theatrically have minds blown at the notion that a shallow a stream with cold water is within this short person’s ability to corral two young, naïve girls at gunpoint and cross a stream where their clothes would get “drenched”!

Deer Creek is a stream, not a river as floridly emphasized. It’s a tributary of the Wabash River.
Geographic Names Information System

IMO, D’s are going to have to come up with proof that RA has severe physical limitations and is not competent in the least since that seems to be their idea is that he is too stunted to function and doesn’t have enough dexterity to even put an arm in a sleeve which on the surface and by all appearances seems completely untrue.


all imo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

The quote @GoBuckeyes is referring to is from his 2022 interview, not the 2017 interview. His clothing wasn't discussed in the 2017 interview, or at least the conservation officer made no mention of it in the report he filed. So RA describing himself wearing similar clothing to BG came years after everyone knew what BG was wearing.

Yes, thank you, @O.Incandenza.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Defense is trying to act like RA’s height is somehow a barrier to committing crime.

The Franks memo’s dramatic recitation, absolutely astonished at the thought that a grown man in the prime of life with no known physical restrictions would be able to forge across a shallow stream, point out RA’s height:

3. At some point in time this single, solitary man would have had to cross a cold river whose depth was nearly 3.5 feet. At this depth, if the water were only two feet higher, Richard’s whole body would have been completely immersed, from head to toe

https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

They go on to theatrically have minds blown at the notion that a shallow a stream with cold water is within this short person’s ability to corral two young, naïve girls at gunpoint and cross a stream where their clothes would get “drenched”!

Deer Creek is a stream, not a river as floridly emphasized. It’s a tributary of the Wabash River.
Geographic Names Information System

IMO, D’s are going to have to come up with proof that RA has severe physical limitations and is not competent in the least since that seems to be their idea is that he is too stunted to function and doesn’t have enough dexterity to even put an arm in a sleeve which on the surface and by all appearances seems completely untrue.


all imo

It's been theorized by some that they crossed farther upstream, where the water is a lot deeper and that steep bank is. We have no evidence of where they did actually cross, to my knowledge.

Remember what we were told:

And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

Holeman: “[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Since the 2017 murder of Indiana teens Libby German and Abby Williams, local authorities have not released any information about the cause or time of death of either victim, leading to rumors and speculation. We spoke with Indiana State Police First Sgt. Jerry Holeman about why the police are...

www.aetv.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thanks @steeltowngirl. I must have been misremembering. I had it in my mind at 5'8"-5'10". Thanks for clarifying for me.

Like so many things about this case, his height was a changing dynamic.

@Ravenmoon posted the flyer with the 5’6“ - 5’10” range. IIRC, the FBI Wanted poster initially had the same, until the height was removed entirely!

IndyStar had this:
“According to an FBI description, the suspected killer is a white man who weighs between 180 and 200 pounds. He stands between 5 feet, 6 inches tall and 5 feet, 8 inches tall, and was wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket or coat and a hoodie.”

Delphi murders: What's still missing 2 years after the slayings of Abby and Libby

The Delphi slayings of Libby German and Abby Mitchell in February 2017 have captivated the nation. But there's still much we don't know.

www.indystar.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

Defense is trying to act like RA’s height is somehow a barrier to committing crime.

The Franks memo’s dramatic recitation, absolutely astonished at the thought that a grown man in the prime of life with no known physical restrictions would be able to forge across a shallow stream, point out RA’s height:

3. At some point in time this single, solitary man would have had to cross a cold river whose depth was nearly 3.5 feet. At this depth, if the water were only two feet higher, Richard’s whole body would have been completely immersed, from head to toe

https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

They go on to theatrically have minds blown at the notion that a shallow a stream with cold water is within this short person’s ability to corral two young, naïve girls at gunpoint and cross a stream where their clothes would get “drenched”!

Deer Creek is a stream, not a river as floridly emphasized. It’s a tributary of the Wabash River.
Geographic Names Information System

IMO, D’s are going to have to come up with proof that RA has severe physical limitations and is not competent in the least since that seems to be their idea is that he is too stunted to function and doesn’t have enough dexterity to even put an arm in a sleeve which on the surface and by all appearances seems completely untrue.


all imo

Good post. Libby and Abby managed to cross the creek, so it’s a silly D argument to contend that RA couldn’t.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Like so many things about this case, his height was a changing dynamic.

@Ravenmoon posted the flyer with the 5’6“ - 5’10” range. IIRC, the FBI Wanted poster initially had the same, until the height was removed entirely!

IndyStar had this:
“According to an FBI description, the suspected killer is a white man who weighs between 180 and 200 pounds. He stands between 5 feet, 6 inches tall and 5 feet, 8 inches tall, and was wearing blue jeans, a blue jacket or coat and a hoodie.”

Delphi murders: What's still missing 2 years after the slayings of Abby and Libby

The Delphi slayings of Libby German and Abby Mitchell in February 2017 have captivated the nation. But there's still much we don't know.

www.indystar.com

You're right! So many things about this case have been in flux. I'd love for them to explain the OBG and NBG in a way that makes sense to me.

 

[photographer4]

Good post. Libby and Abby managed to cross the creek, so it’s a silly D argument to contend that RA couldn’t.

If they both crossed the creek, how come whatever Abby was dressed in was clean? When the kids were found, were their clothes even wet? Muddy? If not, why not? How’s this possible if they went *through* the creek to the other side and were killed where they were found? Did someone force undress before they crossed? Carry someone over? Get in a vehicle or on a mode of transportation (bike? Horse? Four wheeler? Motorcycle…) and take them across??

 

[Ravenmoon]

If they both crossed the creek, how come whatever Abby was dressed in was clean? When the kids were found, were their clothes even wet? Muddy? If not, why not? How’s this possible if they went *through* the creek to the other side and were killed where they were found? Did someone force undress before they crossed? Carry someone over? Get in a vehicle or on a mode of transportation (bike? Horse? Four wheeler? Motorcycle…) and take them across??

IMO

RA carried Abbie over his shoulder.

I have no proof, but feel Libby crossed unclothed, possibly carrying her own clothing.


Totally my opinion.

EBM to add that we really don't know how clean or dry the clothes really were.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If they both crossed the creek, how come whatever Abby was dressed in was clean? When the kids were found, were their clothes even wet? Muddy? If not, why not? How’s this possible if they went *through* the creek to the other side and were killed where they were found? Did someone force undress before they crossed? Carry someone over? Get in a vehicle or on a mode of transportation (bike? Horse? Four wheeler? Motorcycle…) and take them across??

Lo and behold, the defense had an explanation for that in the FM.

Abby meanwhile was fully clothed, including in Libby’s sweatshirt and jeans, the documents state.

There was no blood on her clothing, indicating that she was likely murdered while naked and then dressed after she was killed. Tree branches and sticks had also been arranged on her body, the documents state.

Allen's defense: Libby and Abby killed in Odinism ritual sacrifice

"Members of a pagan Norse religion, called Odinism ... ritualistically sacrificed Abigail Williams and Liberty German," the motion states.

www.jconline.com

 

[Cyber sleuth]

If they both crossed the creek, how come whatever Abby was dressed in was clean? When the kids were found, were their clothes even wet? Muddy? If not, why not? How’s this possible if they went *through* the creek to the other side and were killed where they were found? Did someone force undress before they crossed? Carry someone over? Get in a vehicle or on a mode of transportation (bike? Horse? Four wheeler? Motorcycle…) and take them across??

They could have been forced to undress prior to crossing the creek. Or simply told take off their shoes and roll up their pants. Pictures from days following the murder show the creek height being around shin level on searchers in deer reek next to the crime scene. Many you tube videos show individuals making the trek from the bridge to the crime scene and it can be done in a short amount of time.
I don't know if having dry clothes almost 20 hours later proves that they were not damp at some point. I am very skeptical of taking any proclamations made in the FM as provable fact.

 

[steeltowngirl]

You're right! So many things about this case have been in flux. I'd love for them to explain the OBG and NBG in a way that makes sense to me.

“I wish we could tell people and literally the world what we know and one day we will be able to, but today is not that day,”

- Doug Carter

 

[susiQ]

You're right! So many things about this case have been in flux. I'd love for them to explain the OBG and NBG in a way that makes sense to me.

Personally, I don’t think they can, and that’s a bit of a problem, in my mind at least. Listening to the nonsense Doug Carter was spinning in 2019, just makes me cringe now. There are two sketches because they are two different people. End of story. Was either one or were both involved in the murder? I don’t know, but I sure would like some pics of the Rushville guys from 2017. JMO