Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[Whaddayano]

i find it surprising too that his FB still searchable, although it has been somewhat curated (by...?LE, presumably) - at very least some comments have been deleted in past few days. also at some point someone (again...?LE, or maybe TB himself, earlier) purged all posts prior to 2/15/18 --he opened that acct in May 2017.

 

[EstrellaEspectral]

i find it surprising too that his FB still searchable, although it has been somewhat curated (by...?LE, presumably) - at very least some comments have been deleted in past few days. also at some point someone (again...?LE, or maybe TB himself, earlier) purged all posts prior to 2/15/18 --he opened that acct in May 2017.

I would imagine people have unfriended him, too. I can no longer find the links to Indiana I had found previously. Now I am questioning myself if they were even there. I know someone else posted about it, but cannot remember who it was.

 

[Jabarn]

Well BTK and Bundy both killed young girls and adult females. BTK was non selective of gender. So this wouldn’t be the first time victims vary.

Yea, it’s a shot in the dark. So I respect your opinion. However something caused the FBI in STL to reach out to Indiana about Delphi. It’s not like we are here just randomly trying to nail some recently accused killer to the cross

I do think it may have been simply the attire he was wearing raised alarms with the FBI. Not a word about any connection since the arrest. Time will tell. Silence may mean there is nothing there, or it could mean there is so much going on behind the scenes, it’s too soon to release any info.

Sometimes I feel like following a crime like this online is like being a part of a ripple effect. By the time we are sorting out the evidence, we are so far out in the ripple from the direct evidence, it has already been discounted, and the investigators have evidence that is going a completely different way.

I still think it’s important folks are interested and thinking. It keeps the public interest up and that is important in keeping the eye on the ball and those working on the crime directly knowing the interest is still there for a solution by the public. JMO.

 

[Medstudies]

I do think it may have been simply the attire he was wearing raised alarms with the FBI. Not a word about any connection since the arrest. Time will tell. Silence may mean there is nothing there, or it could mean there is so much going on behind the scenes, it’s too soon to release any info.

Sometimes I feel like following a crime like this online is like being a part of a ripple effect. By the time we are sorting out the evidence, we are so far out in the ripple from the direct evidence, it has already been discounted, and the investigators have evidence that is going a completely different way.

I still think it’s important folks are interested and thinking. It keeps the public interest up and that is important in keeping the eye on the ball and those working on the crime directly knowing the interest is still there for a solution by the public. JMO.

I completely agree with you. It definitely remains to be seen if these two cases are at all related.

And I’m certainly glad that TB is off the streets, as I’m sure we all are.

Thanks for your post!

 

[minazoe]

Im surprised at the lack of new press. MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

Im surprised at the lack of new press. MOO

Me too.

I expected some journalists to be connecting dots to other cases and/or other victims coming forward. Or, simply women coming forward with creepy stories.

Maybe there are no other stories. Gotta face the possibility that perhaps this was a one-time offense. I doubt it (seriously doubt it), but...maybe.

Has anyone found unsolved cases in any of the other places he has lived?

jmo

 

[Jabarn]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

No way to be privy to his prescriptions, but I do wonder about the connection with having a possible drink, or two, or more at Hot Shots, or if there was a trigger at the bar to cause him to walk into Catholic Supply and do what he did. This does seem to be an angry attack, but will leave that to the experts.

Not necessarily saying he was self-medicating, but he may have become off the chain after drinking, so it could be a once in a lifetime crime. We just don’t know anything surrounding the crime other than what’s in the media, and the additional clues provided here from his social media.

There is so much oddity with Bruce. It’s hard to imagine his only prior is a road rage incident. He did have easy access to some sort of gun, and kept it in his vehicle.

It could also be the crime in Delphi is a once in a lifetime event for the killer. Hard to believe it, but it’s possible. I just don’t feel right in either crime this was a first timer.

 

[thesensitivechild]

I actually find Bruce surprisingly unremarkable. For me this seems incongruent with the specificity of his crime, which is so specific it causes me to want to make sense of it all the more (how could this not mean something more?!??!). After giving it considerable thought, I think Bruce was a classic case of someone waiting to bust... While interesting and unfortunate, infedelities, long car drives, inappropriate remarks, creepy behavior toward woman are fairly normative, at times, repulsive and/or egregious, are behavior/s that are found throughout the male population. I want to attribute this behavior to something sinister in Bruce, for example evidence of truly deranged individual, perhaps even a Serial killer! but I just can’t get on board. Instead I see an ethically weak, selfish, and flawed human. Aman incapable
Of
Understanding the boundaries of others, especially those of the opposite sex. Won’t be surprised is he has committed sexual assault multiple times. Won’t be surprised if he believes it wasn’t assault... entitled and small. Regardless, these traits of Bruce are me just trying to read where nothing is really written- His crime is the one thing that suggests otherwise and after reviewing everything here I can’t help but think this flawed delinquent of a man acted upon his own failing mental health, narcissism, sexism,depravity as well as other components that I cannot account for. His act seems impulsive, cold, juvenile, and sick sick sick. He can live his life in jail, I don’t mean sick like that other than having a profound personality disorder or something. Or perhaps nothing. He is simply unremarkable to me.

I do see similarities to Delphi. Absolutely. But personally this crime seems performed by a man who finally came unhinged. He is too disorganized in life, personality, and emotional intelligence. Yet also, far too consistent in fairly unremarkable aspects of his day to day to be BG. That being said I don’t think BG is some ultimate genius. I do think there is an element to BG that bruce just doesn’t have. Bruce would be a dope of a killer to go to a new crime scene dressed in the attire he wore to carry out a double homocide. Even if a dope, that just seems too easy. Why wait almost two years only to commit a fairly easy to solve crime that gives you away. Bruce doesn’t seem smart enough to that anyways- which he wasnt. Sadly I don’t think it’s the guy. Appreciate so much of the sleuthing tho and have been really taking into account all the findings. As I always say here “what do I know?!” This guy is bad bad. At this point I don’t think anything other than the rounding up the women, a gun (which I guess I think was used), the outfit, the proximity and fact that he is white and can fit the age and semi unemployed history says much. While at face value that looks tremendous- which we all initially agreed upon to a certain extent- I think it will be of no value to solving the Delphi crime by the end of the second year. Sorry for my terrible grammar- on phone and a real dope with rereading.

Ps this was so poorly written even I couldn’t get myself to read it back. Apologies.

Pps. Tried again and boy is it bad. Oh my globs

 

[Jabarn]

I actually find Bruce surprisingly unremarkable. For me this seems incongruent with the specificity of his crime and cause me to want to make sense of it. Ultimately however, I think Bruce was waiting to bust- infedelities, long car drives, inappropriate remarks makes me question whether I am trying to read into what is very little to note. I don’t find him remarkable. I see similarities to Delphi, but personally, this seems like man who finally came unhinged. He is too disorganized in life, personality, and emotional intelligence. Yet also, far too consistent in fairly unremarkable ways to be BG. That being said I don’t think BG is some ultimate genius. I just do t think he tweets on the reg. Bruce would be a dope of a killer to go to a new crime scene dressed in the attire he wore to carry out a double homocide. Even if a dope, that just seems to easy. Sadly I don’t think it’s the guy. Appreciate so much of the sleuthing tho and have been really taking into account all the findings. As I always say here “what do I know?!” This guy is bad bad. At this point I don’t think anything other than the rounding up the women, a gun (which I guess I think was used), the outfit, the proximity and fact that he is white and can fit the age and semi unemployed history says much. While at face value that looks tremendous- which we all initially agreed upon to a certain extent- I think it will be of no value to solving the Delphi crime by the end of the second year. Sorry for my terrible grammar- on phone and a real dope with rereading.

Yeah- I find him unremarkable, too, and no worries about grammar. The studies of serial killers date back when it was so hard to track them. There wasn’t as much going on with DNA back a couple of decades (although you will see serial killer crimes going back to the 70s and 80s being solved now using familial DNA) and there wasn’t so much social media tracking. I still think the serial killer is a current phenomenon, disorganized or organized back then, because it simply didn’t exist, but not seeing one currently mentioned by MSM. It’s odd to me. Thinking, is all, and IMO that there are some dots that aren’t being connected.

 

[minazoe]

TB raped these women and used a gun to kidnap and kill in a sexual frenzy.

he has done this before, he hates women, his flatteries are sneering..

Tom Bruce is a cold blooded killer who executed a woman point blank. That he is dull or falling apart or not cunning is yet to be known. MOO

 

[Dontknow?]

I'm not seeing any redeeming qualities in this guy. Nothing. Boring, doesn't hold a job that long, writes reviews on stays at motels or eating out somewhere, hits on women in bars with a lousy, pushy approach. Oh joy, what fun he must be. So he rapes and murders because he can't pretend to be someone he hasn't a clue of how to be. Fails.

At this point I don't think he's involved or not getting my hopes up is more like it. I still think DN did it and they don't have the piece they need to pursue him. jmo

eta, takes selfies of himself with a selfie stick.

 

[thesensitivechild]

Yeah- I find him unremarkable, too, and no worries about grammar. The studies of serial killers date back when it was so hard to track them. There wasn’t as much going on with DNA back a couple of decades (although you will see serial killer crimes going back to the 70s and 80s being solved now using familial DNA) and there wasn’t so much social media tracking. I still think the serial killer is a current phenomenon, disorganized or organized, but not seeing one currently mentioned by MSM. It’s odd to me. Thinking, is all, and IMO that there are some dots that aren’t being connected.

TB raped these women and used a gun to kidnap and kill in a sexual frenzy.

he has done this before, he hates women, his flatteries are sneering..

Tom Bruce is a cold blooded killer who executed a woman point blank. That he is dull or falling apart or not cunning is yet to be known. MOO

I think only a fool would disagree. I am completely in support of everything you said... I hope you are not directing that at me for my opinion. Poor grammar or not. I am also entitled to my opinion and don’t appreciate anyone being overly virtuous. I do want you to know I respect your posts very much however.

 

[minazoe]

oh! no snark intended!!! great post! After reading like a thousand books on these serial killers, I realized you will never get that good reason you are seeking, that they are ordinary and "unremarkable" and all of what you said. They can be shockingly dull and milque toast and still have a powerful fantasy life involving sexual violence

that said though, his plainness on the surface will not exclude him from suspicion, or make him unlikely.

obviously he has a secret life and knows to hide his stuff under the trailer.

to me he is 100% the perfect candidate for A&L suspect. Cheers! MOO

 

[thesensitivechild]

oh! no snark intended!!! great post! After reading like a thousand books on these serial killers, I realized you will never get that good reason you are seeking, that they are ordinary and "unremarkable" and all of what you said. They can be shockingly dull and milque toast and still have a powerful fantasy life involving sexual violence

that said though, his plainness on the surface will not exclude him from suspicion, or make him unlikely.

obviously he has a secret life and knows to hide his stuff under the trailer.

to me he is 100% the perfect candidate for A&L suspect. Cheers! MOO

Thank you. I really appreciate your response. Totally hear you and do agree that there is that innate desire for there to be “something”... (when hoping to be able to identify ”something” indacative of deviancy) something to quantify, to point to, to give rational or lack of rational and therefore some sort of meaning to.

Personally I had considered that he might have hid the clothes he wore the day of the crime in a paper bag under the trailer. Maybe he anticipated his wife mighf ask why the blue coat he loves was suddenly not being worn and he didn’t want to raise her suspicions. Not sure how to deal with it for the time being maybe he hid it thinking he would figure out later what to do. Of course it is also possible that they are clothes not from that day (or for that matter, his clothing). If that is the case well then we certainly have a different story... one that supports your line of questioning and makes it all the more robust.

 

[TTF14]

Thank you. I really appreciate your response. Totally hear you and do agree that there is that innate desire for there to be “something”... (when hoping to be able to identify ”something” indacative of deviancy) something to quantify, to point to, to give rational or lack of rational and therefore some sort of meaning to.

Personally I had considered that he might have hid the clothes he wore the day of the crime in a paper bag under the trailer. Maybe he anticipated his wife mighf ask why the blue coat he loves was suddenly not being worn and he didn’t want to raise her suspicions. Not sure how to deal with it for the time being maybe he hid it thinking he would figure out later what to do. Of course it is also possible that they are clothes not from that day (or for that matter, his clothing). If that is the case well then we certainly have a different story... one that supports your line of questioning and makes it all the more robust.

Which crime? Which day?

I think the stuff under the trailer could have just been something from the supply store shooting. Maybe something he stole.

 

[thesensitivechild]

Which crime? Which day?

I think the stuff under the trailer could have just been something from the supply store shooting. Maybe something he stole.

I was just theororizing that the stuff under the trailer was the clothing he wore when he committed the crime at the Catholic Surplus. He changed out of it once getting home and knowing it could be evidence but not knowing how this stuff (investigations) goes decided to keep it “hidden” for the time being.

 

[Whaddayano]

hiding a bag of incriminating clothing under the trailer hasn't made much sense to me - after it was established thats exactly what he did - but your guess resonates with me, Sensitive Child. IMO there definitely could be a weird manic logic in not wanting the wife to ask questions about a favorite jacket going missing, therefore stashing it nearby until he could figure out what to do about it. if you're right, it would mean he wasnt hiding that bag of clothes from LE per se, but rather defusing awkward questions coming from home. which also would fit with my suspicion that he is currently manic and not thinking clearly, just bouncing through ragey flights of fantasy.

MOO, based on life experience w bipolar family member... during mania, logic still functions even as reason flies away, they do whatever makes most sense to them in the moment they are in. but because (cause/effect) reasoning has fled the scene, their logic becomes twisted and bizarre. which is how the whole Catholic Supply situation looks to me, twisted and bizarre. evidently it also looked that way to one of the LE who gave interviews (the sheriff?) since he made a comment early on to that effect.

i've noticed LE and media have been very quiet the last several days. i saw at one point LE saying sthg to effect they were not wanting to release much further info as they really want to put TB away. i cant find that article now, maybe someone can repost it? but that, combined with (sheriff's?) comment that the Catholic Supply attacks were some of the worst he's seen, combined with STL police immediately approaching Delphi with information... well, IMO they have some pretty strong reasons to suspect TB is BG and they believe they would do well to keep quiet about what else they know at this time. JMOO

 

[OneParticularHarbor]

hiding a bag of incriminating clothing under the trailer hasn't made much sense to me - after it was established thats exactly what he did - but your guess resonates with me, Sensitive Child. IMO there definitely could be a weird manic logic in not wanting the wife to ask questions about a favorite jacket going missing, therefore stashing it nearby until he could figure out what to do about it. if you're right, it would mean he wasnt hiding that bag of clothes from LE per se, but rather defusing awkward questions coming from home. which also would fit with my suspicion that he is currently manic and not thinking clearly, just bouncing through ragey flights of fantasy.

MOO, based on life experience w bipolar family member... during mania, logic still functions even as reason flies away, they do whatever makes most sense to them in the moment they are in. but because (cause/effect) reasoning has fled the scene, their logic becomes twisted and bizarre. which is how the whole Catholic Supply situation looks to me, twisted and bizarre. evidently it also looked that way to one of the LE who gave interviews (the sheriff?) since he made a comment early on to that effect.

i've noticed LE and media have been very quiet the last several days. i saw at one point LE saying sthg to effect they were not wanting to release much further info as they really want to put TB away. i cant find that article now, maybe someone can repost it? but that, combined with (sheriff's?) comment that the Catholic Supply attacks were some of the worst he's seen, combined with STL police immediately approaching Delphi with information... well, IMO they have some pretty strong reasons to suspect TB is BG and they believe they would do well to keep quiet about what else they know at this time. JMOO

The last part of what you said really resonates. STL isn't a small town. It is a big city, and certainly the STL police have seen A LOT. For the Delphi sheriff to say that this was the stuff of nightmares (or however he put it) is one thing. For STL LE to say it was some of the worst he's seen, that is pretty major. I do think that there is something that is tying these two crimes together, and I hope this solves many other cases as well. I am scared to find out what these comments are referring to, but hopefully it is a particular signature that is useful to LE.

 

[carbuff]

hiding a bag of incriminating clothing under the trailer hasn't made much sense to me - after it was established thats exactly what he did - but your guess resonates with me, Sensitive Child. IMO there definitely could be a weird manic logic in not wanting the wife to ask questions about a favorite jacket going missing, therefore stashing it nearby until he could figure out what to do about it. if you're right, it would mean he wasnt hiding that bag of clothes from LE per se, but rather defusing awkward questions coming from home. which also would fit with my suspicion that he is currently manic and not thinking clearly, just bouncing through ragey flights of fantasy.

snipped by me

I don't think it's a favorite jacket missing. I think it's where he hides his kill outfit between excursions.

 

[raja]

I don't think it has been established what was taken out from under TB's trailer. What I am wondering is all the early articles talked about he discarded his clothes. Would hiding your clothes on your property be the same as discarding them.