Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

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A few thought snippets that came in my mind today:

The focus of the public is on BG the way he looked on the day the crime was committed and geographically on the bridge. But is that relevant ? It sure was in the time right after the crime. It was important to look for witnesses of that day. But nothing useful came from that approach, sadly.

We can almost certainly assume that BG knew that area quite well, the police seems to think so, too. Yet the crime itself, the killing and possible other actions were committed in the area around the creek (where the bodies were found). This was an area with dense vegetation, no place you would go to for a hike or such. It's not an area you just stumble over. Its an area you know because you have checked it out a few times or you know it from other activities.

So it is likely that BG was in that area a few times, but he would have looked much different. No blue jacket, no hoodie pulled deep down into his face etc.
He would have looked just like some guy walking through the shrubbery, probably more often than once. Did police ever ask if people made such observations ? Open question, I have no answer.

Another possibility is of course that he knew that area from his childhood. If so this information would probably not lead very far.

Let's suppose he knew not only a specific area around the creek but the creek itself. Who knows creeks ? People who go fishing. Might BG be an angler ?

I stumbled over a photo of Abby while fishing: Picture of person of interest released by Delphi police | Daily Mail Online

Probably a coincidence. And then again maybe not ?

(disclaimer: if this has been discussed before, mea culpa, its not possible to read thousands of pages of chat, just ignore my post then :) )
 
Vinrah said:
A few thought snippets that came in my mind today:

The focus of the public is on BG the way he looked on the day the crime was committed and geographically on the bridge. But is that relevant ? It sure was in the time right after the crime. It was important to look for witnesses of that day. But nothing useful came from that approach, sadly.

We can almost certainly assume that BG knew that area quite well, the police seems to think so, too. Yet the crime itself, the killing and possible other actions were committed in the area around the creek (where the bodies were found). This was an area with dense vegetation, no place you would go to for a hike or such. It's not an area you just stumble over. Its an area you know because you have checked it out a few times or you know it from other activities.

So it is likely that BG was in that area a few times, but he would have looked much different. No blue jacket, no hoodie pulled deep down into his face etc.
He would have looked just like some guy walking through the shrubbery, probably more often than once. Did police ever ask if people made such observations ? Open question, I have no answer.

Another possibility is of course that he knew that area from his childhood. If so this information would probably not lead very far.

Let's suppose he knew not only a specific area around the creek but the creek itself. Who knows creeks ? People who go fishing. Might BG be an angler ?

I stumbled over a photo of Abby while fishing: Picture of person of interest released by Delphi police | Daily Mail Online

Probably a coincidence. And then again maybe not ?

(disclaimer: if this has been discussed before, mea culpa, its not possible to read thousands of pages of chat, just ignore my post then :) )
Click to expand...
I've said the same many times. I could see someone driving past and maybe seeing a sign about the trail and this could be anyone with no prior knowledge of the area. BUT where Abigail and Liberty were found would make me suspect this person is familiar with the trail AND the surrounding area. I keep coming back to the possibility that this person lived in the area in their childhood and moved away. OR would visit an aunt/uncle or grandparent in or near Delphi when they were a child. If he hasn't spent much time in the area since, then his appearance may have changed enough that locals would not make the connection to the sketch. If such a relative is deceased or moved away that would also decrease the chance of a connection being made.
 
Just a two pennies worth on a few posts I’ve read over the past few weeks. Following since day one.

Time again we see the discussion over why Libby felt the ‘need’ to record BG. It may be possible she thought something was off, but based on the actions of my own teen daughter and her friends, they Snap absolutely anything and everything, No matter how random !! Especially for ‘streaks’ & simple why not - especially if they already have their phone to hand. Something to consider.

I think there’s far to much reaching with BG’s voice. Just sounds like a man of 30+ to me? But to show Just how deceiving voices can be, check out British singer George Ezra - been around a few years over here and does really well but I remeber being shocked the first time I saw him.

The only thing I feel confident in saying regarding BG from the videos, maps, descriptions, drone footage I’ve seen & read - he’s extremely familiar with the trail. From childhood perhaps ? I also suspect he lurked in the run up to the murders, waiting for the ‘best’ opportunity. Yes it was extremely risky, but this more than likely added to the thrill for him.

Discussion as to why the girls weren’t heard screaming .. a few posters have mentioned now that upon being startled and fearful, no screams can actually come out and I believe so myself after being in a frightful situation. He may have simply said, scream and I’ll shoot.

I see a lot of talk about sexual assault, not enough time etc. I think the motive was sexual, but there doesn’t even need to be a physical assault for this motive. Some killers take sexual pleasure from the actual mechanism of the killing itself - erotophonophilia.

The last thing I think about a great deal, is that despite video, stills & audio (albeit not of great quality) the killer has not been recognised/arrested. This is shocking to me and I believe that if this had occurred in the UK, the would have been found not long after. The only reasons I can think of as to why he’s not been apprehended, is the sheer size & number of people in America. The population is far more transient than here in the U.K. I’m from a small town myself, there’s not much movement between other local towns. Last time I was in Orlando, we Ubered 3+ times a day and I think only 2 drivers we had were native to Orlando or even Florida. Don’t get me wrong, there’s more movement here than there used to be but from what I can gather, it’s common for people to flit between towns, even states for homes/jobs . All adding to the difficulty in finding BG.

Thinking of Libby & Abby everyday
 
TL4S said:
I strongly agree. I'm uncomfortable with the intimations that those girls must have known BG because they went downhill compliantly.

Firstly, we don't know how they behaved or reacted, and secondly, no matter how they did, they are children and not responsible for the events that transpired, in any way.
Click to expand...

According to early reports, it was stated by one of Libby's relatives that she put up a fight IIRC. LE also said she was a hero so we do know that much and that is what we need to remember IMO. As we don't really know all that happened, it is difficult speculating. I read today in a CDC report that 87% of teen homicides were by gun and as many of us see a gun in BG's pocket, seemingly positioned for a southpaw draw, then that is the likely weapon imo. Also, we have speculated they may well have ran to escape across the creek, so if he had a gun, then I think that could be what happened and they sadly died whilst trying to escape. Whether they knew him or not is only relevant because it will help to catch him. Nobody in Delphi seems to know him, so I cannot see how the girls did either TBH.

JMO
 
mtnlites said:
My Delphi friends and family say that they don't know everyone in town, either. I think the whole "it's a small town so everyone knows each other" is mostly a myth now. Perhaps decades ago when your entire life (work, socialization, shopping, dining, & school) revolved around your small town, that was true, but we've been slowly sliding away from that for the past 30 years. Now people drive to other towns and counties to eat. People commute to other places for work. Not everyone goes to church. We shop off the internet. Many of our friends are people we only know online. It's entirely possible to live in a small place and still see people you don't know every day.
Click to expand...
@mtnlites, just wondering, when you talk to folks back in Delphi what feeling do you get from them? Do they have their suspensions or are they at a complete loss as to who they feel did this.

I live not far from Delphi and when I was in town (my town) this morning at the local breakfast place everyone was talking about a human foot with a tattoo found off the interstate (I-65) in a pond about a month ago.

Are folks in Delphi moving on or is this tragedy still on their minds?
 
waltzingmatilda said:
gitana1, Thrill kill is my thought too at this moment. However, a few of the scenarios I mentioned are real life experiences in regards to my FIL (pot farm at adjoining his property over the hill) and another regarding a former acquaintance (he killed someone in revenge and to shut the person up from telling about his shenanigans). And another relates to a young man currently incarcerated for a terrible crime and allegedly encouraged others to kill on a dark web site.

Life sure is strange. I just hope LE finds this monster and puts him away for good.

Moo and I always enjoy your posts, BTW.
Click to expand...


Yes. Those things happen. But not to normal, innocent teen girls who were coincidentally followed by some man minutes before they were murdered. You know what I mean?
 
gitana1 said:
IMO they have thoroughly profiled the murderer and he was reacting in a manner meant to affect the killer.
.
Click to expand...

Well, it did not work for him, but it did affect us...

JMO. The fear, he has. The conscience, maybe, in normal times. But like everyone is wondering how Ted Bundy could have two faces (and both were real), it might be not unlike this guy.

MOO - the perp isolates that other “him”, the criminal, so much, that he can successfully lead a double life, with almost two parallel patterns of thinking, and no one being the wiser. He isolates his dreams of violence and even scarier things, no one knows about them, and then, he becomes that other person when he commits the crime. It is not dissociation, he is fully aware of what he did, more like his dreams periodically breaking into the reality.

I think the profilers view him as a religious person. But when he kills, he is not. Everything Carter was saying, he was directing at the “usual” him. That “usual” one might sincerely wonder what made him do it, even feel ashamed. The one who does it, they won’t reach, because there is no conscience and surely, no religion in that other him. :(
 
kate2931 said:
Just a two pennies worth on a few posts I’ve read over the past few weeks. Following since day one.

Time again we see the discussion over why Libby felt the ‘need’ to record BG. It may be possible she thought something was off, but based on the actions of my own teen daughter and her friends, they Snap absolutely anything and everything, No matter how random !! Especially for ‘streaks’ & simple why not - especially if they already have their phone to hand. Something to consider.

I think there’s far to much reaching with BG’s voice. Just sounds like a man of 30+ to me? But to show Just how deceiving voices can be, check out British singer George Ezra - been around a few years over here and does really well but I remeber being shocked the first time I saw him.

The only thing I feel confident in saying regarding BG from the videos, maps, descriptions, drone footage I’ve seen & read - he’s extremely familiar with the trail. From childhood perhaps ? I also suspect he lurked in the run up to the murders, waiting for the ‘best’ opportunity. Yes it was extremely risky, but this more than likely added to the thrill for him.

Discussion as to why the girls weren’t heard screaming .. a few posters have mentioned now that upon being startled and fearful, no screams can actually come out and I believe so myself after being in a frightful situation. He may have simply said, scream and I’ll shoot.

I see a lot of talk about sexual assault, not enough time etc. I think the motive was sexual, but there doesn’t even need to be a physical assault for this motive. Some killers take sexual pleasure from the actual mechanism of the killing itself - erotophonophilia.

The last thing I think about a great deal, is that despite video, stills & audio (albeit not of great quality) the killer has not been recognised/arrested. This is shocking to me and I believe that if this had occurred in the UK, the would have been found not long after. The only reasons I can think of as to why he’s not been apprehended, is the sheer size & number of people in America. The population is far more transient than here in the U.K. I’m from a small town myself, there’s not much movement between other local towns. Last time I was in Orlando, we Ubered 3+ times a day and I think only 2 drivers we had were native to Orlando or even Florida. Don’t get me wrong, there’s more movement here than there used to be but from what I can gather, it’s common for people to flit between towns, even states for homes/jobs . All adding to the difficulty in finding BG.

Thinking of Libby & Abby everyday
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
Vinrah said:
A few thought snippets that came in my mind today:

The focus of the public is on BG the way he looked on the day the crime was committed and geographically on the bridge. But is that relevant ? It sure was in the time right after the crime. It was important to look for witnesses of that day. But nothing useful came from that approach, sadly.

We can almost certainly assume that BG knew that area quite well, the police seems to think so, too. Yet the crime itself, the killing and possible other actions were committed in the area around the creek (where the bodies were found). This was an area with dense vegetation, no place you would go to for a hike or such. It's not an area you just stumble over. Its an area you know because you have checked it out a few times or you know it from other activities.

So it is likely that BG was in that area a few times, but he would have looked much different. No blue jacket, no hoodie pulled deep down into his face etc.
He would have looked just like some guy walking through the shrubbery, probably more often than once. Did police ever ask if people made such observations ? Open question, I have no answer.

Another possibility is of course that he knew that area from his childhood. If so this information would probably not lead very far.

Let's suppose he knew not only a specific area around the creek but the creek itself. Who knows creeks ? People who go fishing. Might BG be an angler ?

I stumbled over a photo of Abby while fishing: Picture of person of interest released by Delphi police | Daily Mail Online

Probably a coincidence. And then again maybe not ?

(disclaimer: if this has been discussed before, mea culpa, its not possible to read thousands of pages of chat, just ignore my post then :) )
Click to expand...

MOO kids know creeks. Hideouts, bank willow hollows, outbuildings, places to smoke, places to war game. The owners that chase you off and owners who don't.
 
FinePrint said:
@mtnlites, just wondering, when you talk to folks back in Delphi what feeling do you get from them? Do they have their suspensions or are they at a complete loss as to who they feel did this.

I live not far from Delphi and when I was in town (my town) this morning at the local breakfast place everyone was talking about a human foot with a tattoo found off the interstate (I-65) in a pond about a month ago.

Are folks in Delphi moving on or is this tragedy still on their minds?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a consensus amongst those who I know who live there. There are groups who believe Person A is responsible and those who believe Person B may have done it, but as far as the people who I know who actually live IN Delphi, they seem to be at a loss. I've heard many names tossed around in the past 2 years and no one seems particularly married to any one theory. Occasionally I'll hear names referenced here or on social media and I'll run them by my family and friends, but I haven't heard anyone say, "Oh, yeah, that sounds right!"

There seems to be a few feelings that stick out. Those with kids are concerned that it might happen again. Then there are those who want justice for the family so they're doing their part to share the links and stuff. Many, though, will be glad when it's all over because of the amount of scrutiny their town is getting. Considering how generic the clothes BG is wearing is and how both sketches could really be a number of people, it must stink to be a man in Delphi right now. Seriously, at first every middle-aged man I saw looked like the OGBG and now all the young men I see look like the new sketch. I think every man has been suspected except for the actual culprit.
 
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