Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

[Boxer]

Do we know when Carter's GMA interview was taped? Maybe it was shortly after the PC and not super recent. It wasn't live right? I am just grasping at straws probably. jmo

MOO at least the taping of Carter was in a different context and to a different question.
I thought it was kind of a set up.
Carter was taped and the live guest gets to criticize the investigation and MOO squander national TV time.

Yes. Mistakes probably happened. There are are going to be some. What is important is keeping going.

 

[Backstroke10]

Some of the workers at that construction site were as close as Monticello and raised in the area.....moo

Yes and the construction workers, packing plant employees and drivers could take walking breaks on a regular basis. MOO
Edited to add, walking lunch breaks at or near the park/bridge.

 

[susiQ]

I totally agree with you.
I think LE thought with a video still and audio clip, the killer was just going to be handed to them. They dismissed and yawned about a lot of things early. They’re still waiting.
Only the families themselves know how they feel about all this, but I always go back to Holly Bobo’s case. If her parents had not publicly criticized the investigation, loud and often, that case would have never been solved.
I have told friends that if they would choose five websleuthers at random, show them all the evidence and leave them alone...this case would be solved in a week and a half.

They need "cold eyes" on this case. Start from the beginning. Look at everything and everybody. But how do you get that manpower? Many a time, a cold case is solved by the old guard moving out and the new in. Wouldn't it be nice if some former detective with some time on his hands would show up for this challenge? Just dreamin'.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo but too often, police are so worried about holding back info from the public, that they don’t release enough to get realistic tips. Not sure if this due to the prosecutors in their ears about “protecting evidence” or just an inborn police tendency toward secrecy.

Either way, it leads to cases like this one seems to be.

 

[Boxer]

BBM I tend to post more when there is something else that I'm supposed to be doing. lol

I agree that the coat very well might not have been his, or not something he was known to wear.

I do hope he had a cellphone, so that in the event he is arrested, it will aid in conviction. But quite possibly, he did not.

MOO a cell turned off or with no activity or movement when out of the norm can be at least some help to build case.

 

[susiQ]

BBM I tend to post more when there is something else that I'm supposed to be doing. lol

I agree that the coat very well might not have been his, or not something he was known to wear.

I do hope he had a cellphone, so that in the event he is arrested, it will aid in conviction. But quite possibly, he did not.

OR, he shut it off, OR left it at home, OR in the car. But even that can become circumstantial evidence if it was "out of the norm." JMO

 

[Boxer]

They need "cold eyes" on this case. Start from the beginning. Look at everything and everybody. But how do you get that manpower? Many a time, a cold case is solved by the old guard moving out and the new in. Wouldn't it be nice if some former detective with some time on his hands would show up for this challenge? Just dreamin'.

MOO they did send the case for review to the GBI in 2018.

I hope they take the new description divide the whole area into zones and identify anyone living in each zone that roughly matches the description and just go through them.

 

[HockeyMom330]

IMO it's about someone coming forward saying this looks like a person in their social/family/work related field. It is not about taking the sketch and finding a stranger. That's what the 3999 tips are about..

All IMO

-Nin

I agree with you and would like to add that for me the new sketch was about selling the public on the idea that BG is much younger and much cleaner-cut than originally portrayed to be. This is the 180 degree turn, the new direction. Alot of us on here have been struggling to reconcile that this crime was not (now accorindy to LE) committed by a scruffy, transient, middle aged man with priors. The first sketch to be released (OBG) is IMO so much more in line with what people envision the killer would be. Although I doubt the new sketch (NBG) is 100% accurate, hopefully it is close enough on some key characteristics to alert someone in his social circle to come forward, especially if they already have their suspicions based on his behaviour or whearabouts in Feb 2017.

 

[Gumbeaux]

It is time for a new set of eyes/ private investigators different experts/ different angle of the case. Rei-nterview, Start at square 1, look into social media accounts, phone records, web history of girls, events in the weeks/days before murders stops before arriving at the trail, saved camera footage of area, ..... Justice can't wait for a tip.... Find the link.

BBM -

Regrettably, that has already occurred. We have all assumed that this fresh look at the basics is what prompted the new direction, and the emotion of the 4/22 press conference. The case was reviewed by the Georgia Bureau of Investigations.

Yet I see that this new action was over a year ago! Article linked is from Feb. 2018.

Georgia investigators, FBI review Delphi case

 

[susiQ]

MOO they did send the case for review to the GBI in 2018.

I hope they take the new description divide the whole area into zones and identify anyone living in each zone that roughly matches the description and just go through them.

Thanks for that info. But, they were all still stuck on the old construct, old sketch. Whose idea to shift gears to new sketch, which is really the original, 3 days after the murder sketch? It still boggles my small mind why it was set aside and then 5 months later they put together another sketch, with multiple "witnesses" and go with that? Would be really nice to know why THAT happened.

 

[Gumbeaux]

I was looking at some bill of ladings/shipping papers at a trucking company the other day and all of their drivers pick up at the Indiana Packers Plant in Delphi. They do these trips 2-3 times a month. These drivers can sit there for hours waiting to be loaded. Some of them take their 34 hour break there as well. It’s something to think about. Another thought I had was, these trucking companies have Electronic Logging Devices installed in the trucks, some with cameras. The cameras are recording the street view while driving. Hopefully this was looked into because they wouldn’t keep the videos for 2 years. MOO

Good thinking, but the possible truck driver angle was greatly discussed here in the early days of the case. Seems plausible, but LE seems to emphasize lately that this person is local, or has ties to Delphi.

 

[Timekeeper65]

“I know this is likely a dumb idea. But I so bad want this to be over. My heart breaks for their families.” Going over obit pics as a way to rule out? Sure. Why not?

@ScumbagTrav - no it’s not a dumb idea.

Here’s what I’ve been thinking for a while. This is a big case for a tiny town. Someone in that community has to recognize that sketch. There’s not that many male persons who would fit the description. Add in this person was not at work in the timeframe the crime was committed. Once you take away females, children, elderly persons - how many are left? It’s hard to believe someone in that community is clueless.

 

[No it's not]

Here is my try on an offender profile. I considered all info we have including but not limited to things like "pristine crime scene" etc.. No rumors were considered. I am by no means LE or a profiler. ALL is my opinion only.

Feel free to add/ modify etc. with reasoning behind it.


Character


· Charming

· Persuasive

· Controlling (father was possibly strict or abusive)

· Humiliating

· Intelligent

· Detailed

· Planning ability

· Fearful of rejection and humiliation

· Striving for power and perfection

· Insecure

· Socially adequate

· Relationships are painful to him

· Civilized façade

· Remorseless

· Simulated superficial sympathy for others

· Manipulative

· Organized personality (lifestyle, home, automobile, and personal appearance)

· Geographically mobile

· Follows media

· May or may not live with a partner

· Adapts to situation

· Good with geo maps

· Not afraid of heights



Pre offense behavior:

· Choosing the geographical venue

· Exploring area hours or possibly days/months prior to offense (walking the area,
filming, Google Earth) or simply being familiar with area

· Choosing/following victims (gender, socio-economic status, age)

· Possibly following on social media

· Brings his weapons with him to the crime scene, and will take care to hide them or
remove them after the crime, as well as possibly clean the crime scene from all forensic
evidence or take precautions not leaving forensic evidence behind


Post offense behavior:

· May change physical appearance

· May change employment

· May change residency

· Called in sick to work the day after offense or had an excuse for not showing up

· Possible wounds/scars

· Discharged clothing

· Significant behavioral change (may need a lone fishing trip etc.)

· Returns to crime scene, may have been a volunteer searcher, may have been
interviewed by LE and expected to beinterviewed/ questioned (volunteered info)

· May have attended victims’ funeral

 

[Backstroke10]

Good thinking, but the possible truck driver angle was greatly discussed here in the early days of the case. Seems plausible, but LE seems to emphasize lately that this person is local, or has ties to Delphi.

Thanks Gumbeaux but since I’m not having much confidence in what LE thinks, I’m trying to branch out. I just don’t think this guy is local (lives there) but I think he works/travels there quite a bit. MOO

 

[SeattleStew]

“I know this is likely a dumb idea. But I so bad want this to be over. My heart breaks for their families.” Going over obit pics as a way to rule out? Sure. Why not?

@ScumbagTrav - no it’s not a dumb idea.

Here’s what I’ve been thinking for a while. This is a big case for a tiny town. Someone in that community has to recognize that sketch. There’s not that many male persons who would fit the description. Add in this person was not at work in the timeframe the crime was committed. Once you take away females, children, elderly persons - how many are left? It’s hard to believe someone in that community is clueless.

Your post makes me think so much of poor Barron, Wisconsin and JC. Similar population size and demographics. They didn't have the "benefit" of a sketch or video of course. Most of us thought we could be from in town, well we know how that case turned out. 70 miles away. BUT, JP was very familiar with Barron, and knew how to get around and out of town. From having worked in the area etc.

It makes me think that BG has a close relative or a job in Delphi, and near the trail. IMO

 

[Jealoushe]

I think the sketch has been a hindrance.

Too many people saying, "Oh, I saw a facebook page for this 80 year old lady in Italy and my hinker went through the roof. Her right eye was lazy and her chin was long! With a haircut and botox, she matches the sketch perfectly!"

It's scary, really. We don't even know how accurate the sketch is.

True, but it wouldn’t hurt. Often these predatory men can’t help but seek out women, could even be looking for the next victim. I’m not saying to chase after a face on an online dating profile, but if one were to see a face that looks similar and their bio is a bit strange, do some digging and maybe more red flags come up. Just thinking out loud. I would do it if I was in that area but Tinder only works in your area unless you pay. I could try POF. Maybe I will tonight.

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks MistyWaters, that's what I missed earlier.

Have we ever determined if area colleges or universities had the
13th off for President's Day?

Presidents Day was the 20th in 2017.

I mistakenly said Presidents day but it was Lincolns birthday (12th) that some states celebrated on 13th Feb that year. Illinois is one state that celebrates, so anyone working for a company based in Illinois may have had that day off. Some Indy companies may have celebrated it too I guess.

It's also not unusual to have few or no classes on Monday.

Also, this guy was capable of double murder, not going to be afraid of skipping class or lecture on any given day.

MOO

 

[Jealoushe]

DBM losing it lol

 

[Seattle1]

John Douglas a former FBI Profiler said this a.m on GMA that Carters new strategy is good and that Carter should have done this strategy a long time ago” and he said this could have been a “solvable case REALLY QUICK”. He went on to say that he has learned over the years that information should be released regarding pre offense behavior and post offense behavior..... Thoughts on these comments by John Douglas.?? My thoughts are of sadness that these things didn’t happen sooner. (You can find the clip online. I’m sorry that I don’t have a link) ** DOUG CARTER is the lead investigator/Indiana.... The person I am referring to is JOHN DOUGLAS, a former FBI profiler who GMA brought in today.

5-15-19

Video: Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid, investigator says

GMA: Supt Carter and former FBI J Douglas

 

[janesmith787]

I don't care what he says to the public, I still believe they know who it is and just do not have the proof they need. MOO

I agree...I think there's way more to this than they're letting on. They don't have to tell us every strategic move they're making. I think they're waiting on something that will make a prosecutor feel like they can get a conviction without any doubt. JMO