Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[MassGuy]

Find my phone/friend would be quite accurate in showing location. The tower pings are related, but different.

I think the family likely got the “ping” info from carrier/LE, (especially if they could verify they were the account owner quickly), and I speculate the Perp tracked the girls every step through one of the aforementioned buddy find apps.

Amateur speculation and opinion only

If this guy was following them through one of those apps, he’d almost certainly be behind bars right now.

That leaves a digital trail, and I’ve never heard of a crime like this, committed in that way.

I think that’s way too sophisticated for a guy that was this brazen, reckless, and stupid.

 

[Boxer]

In the early days, I was one of the obnoxious ones asking and asking what MP meant by the phone pinging

If this happened the family would know where their bodies were. Yet the search team didn’t find the bodies until after noon. I don’t think they used this app IMO.

MOO FMIP shows the phones last location before battery dies or turned off.
MOO if Libby had FMIP, the family searchers on 2/13 would have at least located the phone, and probably the girls too, since Libby's phone was said to be found near CS.

 

[cluciano63]

Have we ever heard L.e say they found the phone? Or just those words put into mouth by reporters?

 

[kc1023]

@bradfordsleuth Thank you for trying to help me find the video! But it still wasn't the one I saw. However, these words did pop up again in your link:
"Investigators are attempting to independently corroborate alibis that didn't add up, and if need be, find out why there are discrepancies, Leazenby said."
I wonder who's alibis didn't add up? Which witnesses were less than truthful or misleading? And we have come full circle, In My Opinion. Now (it appears) we are back to the focus of the investigation being someone "with ties" (work?, familial?, school?) back to the Delphi community. The "newly presented sketch was drawn within 3 days of the murders" and yet it was not used for 2 years!! Is that because, #1 a witness said, "It can't be him because he and I were attending the event at the high school together?" or, #2 "My (insert: spouse, brother, co-worker, son, father etc.) was picking up mail at the post office with me at 3 pm." #3 Maybe a family member stayed for the weekend, said their good-byes on Monday morning, but never actually left town....until after the murders.?? #4 The perp showed a cash receipt for a purchase with a time stamp on it. (And store video never showed perp or his vehicle in the parking lot. Anyone of us could find a cash receipt on the ground and claim it as our alibi, huh? Wouldn't store video be "independent corroboration"??)
This crime had such a tight time frame....witnesses literally walking & driving past each other.... a mistake or misreporting of even 30 minutes could really make a big difference.
Except for Superintendent Carter's multiple TV appearances....the 3 weeks of silence is deafening.

I hate to post JCOnline bc the links hardly ever work - the trick is you need to open it in a private/incognito browser window. You should be able to do that by right clicking and choosing that option, however, I am not sure how all devices work so YMMV. Article also has the thing where LE said they were arresting people on unrelated charges.

But here is the alibi quote I think you are after:

Police corroborating alibis given in Delphi killings (right click, open in private or incognito window)

Published 7:55 p.m. ET March 15, 2017

snips

DELPHI, Ind. — Some of the alibis given to police investigating Liberty German and Abigail Williams' killings turned out to be less than truthful.

“We’re going deeper with alibis that are provided,” Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said. “Part of the reason … we have learned of people who have lied to us on the alibi.”

That doesn't make them suspects, per se, Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said, but it does mean that police want to find out the truth — whatever that might be.

"They’re seeing that maybe there are some discrepancies going on," Riley said about rechecking the alibis.“It’s just making sure we don’t miss something.”

Investigators are attempting to independently corroborate alibis that didn't add up, and if need be, find out why there are discrepancies, Leazenby said.

----

During the course of the investigation, police have made unrelated arrests, Leazenby pointed out. If, for example, police find someone they are interviewing is wanted on a warrant, officers can't ignore that. So the person goes to jail on unrelated charges. A probation hold can keep a person locked up for 15 days without charges, Leazenby said.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

@bradfordsleuth Thank you for trying to help me find the video! But it still wasn't the one I saw. However, these words did pop up again in your link:
"Investigators are attempting to independently corroborate alibis that didn't add up, and if need be, find out why there are discrepancies, Leazenby said."
I wonder who's alibis didn't add up? Which witnesses were less than truthful or misleading? And we have come full circle, In My Opinion. Now (it appears) we are back to the focus of the investigation being someone "with ties" (work?, familial?, school?) back to the Delphi community. The "newly presented sketch was drawn within 3 days of the murders" and yet it was not used for 2 years!! Is that because, #1 a witness said, "It can't be him because he and I were attending the event at the high school together?" or, #2 "My (insert: spouse, brother, co-worker, son, father etc.) was picking up mail at the post office with me at 3 pm." #3 Maybe a family member stayed for the weekend, said their good-byes on Monday morning, but never actually left town....until after the murders.?? #4 The perp showed a cash receipt for a purchase with a time stamp on it. (And store video never showed perp or his vehicle in the parking lot. Anyone of us could find a cash receipt on the ground and claim it as our alibi, huh? Wouldn't store video be "independent corroboration"??)
This crime had such a tight time frame....witnesses literally walking & driving past each other.... a mistake or misreporting of even 30 minutes could really make a big difference.
Except for Superintendent Carter's multiple TV appearances....the 3 weeks of silence is deafening.

JMO
Everything ties back to the timing the witness for sketch #2 saw BG. I know we are not all on the same page with this...but I can't help saying it again. I think BG was seen by witness 2 in the parking area prior to the crimes.

If the witness was off with the time, it could have allowed BG for an alibi that did not exist, or BG could have given a great reason for being spotted there earlier that day and was never spotted on the trail.

I am leaning towards someone saying they were with BG at the time of the murders even if they weren't (thinking he was doing 'a favour for a buddy'), or BG supplying a receipt (again...that same buddy sent to 'do a favour') or even showing a receipt for a restaurant or something.

I am thinking that Robert Ives coming back from retirement is a very positive sign this case is moving in a forward direction.

Lol. I was thinking that we have heard more info from Carter in the past 4ish weeks than we have in a while!

I will happily take it as I would like to believe that he and his team are just getting their ducks lined up in a row and are readying themselves for an arrest. ;0)
JMO

 

[Bluntgirl]

JMO
Everything ties back to the timing the witness for sketch #2 saw BG. I know we are not all on the same page with this...but I can't help saying it again. I think BG was seen by witness 2 in the parking area prior to the crimes.

If the witness was with the time, it could have allowed BG for an alibi that did not exist, or BG could have given a great reason for being spotted there earlier that day and was never spotted on the trail.

I am leaning towards someone saying they were with BG at the time of the murders even if they weren't (thinking he was doing 'a favour for a buddy'), or BG supplying a receipt (again...that same buddy sent to 'do a favour') or even showing a receipt for a restaurant or something.

I am thinking that Robert Ives coming back from retirement is a very positive sign this case is moving in a forward direction.

Lol. I was thinking that we have heard more info from Carter in the past 4ish weeks than we have in a while!

I will happily take it as I would like to believe that he and his team are just getting their ducks lined up in a row and are readying themselves for an arrest. ;0)

(Bolded by me)

Boom! I Agree 100%

 

[susiQ]

I'm a grown adult felt afraid for my life, witnessed creepy behavior and still feel I shouldn't bother the police because if you're wrong some police will chastise you even threaten.
I was almost abducted and LE flat out refused to take a police report or look at security cameras to get his license. It was a stranger he pulled over his car grabbed my arm. I yelled. A whole parking lot full of witnesses. Not one called the police. One woman called me a *advertiser censored* even. I had no idea who he was, why he grabbed me, he proceeded to yell I was his teenage daughter.
Now, imagine being a young teen.

So very sorry x_files that you had that horrifying experience. I can't imagine. All I can think is people are afraid of getting involved. No excuse, but there have been a number of instances around where I live where people tried to help and ended up dead themselves. I imagine some were thinking you were a rebellious teen since the stranger was yelling that you were his teenage daughter. What I CANNOT understand is LE not taking a report or following through with some investigation of your account of a near abduction! What the heck?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Delete. Quote is acting up.

 

[Cutiekitty]

In the early days, I was one of the obnoxious ones asking and asking what MP meant by the phone pinging all over town. (This is in the news story the night of the disappearance and before the girls were found, and has been posted so many times here). Others provided information on how cell phones triangulate, and the length of time it takes a court order to release triangulated cell phone data, and I wondered how MP knew that so quickly.

All I could come up with the family was using something like Find My iPhone. Still don’t know. It’s one of those murky clues that has never been answered satisfactorily to me.

They would be able to get tower info really fast under certain circumstances and would probably have been able to get the records that night or early the next day prior to the girls being found.

Edit: Deleted my question about when MP made the ping comment. I remembered the comment, but not when it was made. It was early on

 

[Finnamin]

Find my phone/friend would be quite accurate in showing location. The tower pings are related, but different.

I think the family likely got the “ping” info from carrier/LE, (especially if they could verify they were the account owner quickly), and I speculate the Perp tracked the girls every step through one of the aforementioned buddy find apps.

We use find my phone and the find my friend app with our family and they are definitely not always accurate. They also get stuck on an old location at times. We love in a city where the cell signals are strong.

Our iPhones have the ability to audibly alert another linked family member that we are trying to reach them. It sounds an annoying alarm that has to be physically turned off. We refer to it as “pinging” that person.

None of these things work if a phone is dead or powered off. MOO Libby’s phone can’t have had a full battery if she was taking photos, using Snapchat, and recording audio and video. If her phone had those capabilities then her family members would certainly have been trying them.

Amateur speculation and opinion only

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I hate to post JCOnline bc the links hardly ever work - the trick is you need to open it in a private/incognito browser window. You should be able to do that by right clicking and choosing that option, however, I am not sure how all devices work so YMMV. Article also has the thing where LE said they were arresting people on unrelated charges.

But here is the alibi quote I think you are after:

Police corroborating alibis given in Delphi killings (right click, open in private or incognito window)

Snipped and BBM
Agree!!!
Thank you for sharing that helpful tip.

 

[pepper 34]

Some members have asked, while considering theories, about the private road that goes under the bridge and how BG may have parked a vehicle on that road to use in his plan. I've outlined the road in red (from the bridge... to the cemetery) if traveling on "rural country roads." It involves taking a left onto W200N Road. If you take a right on W200N, you have to pass over Route 25. There is no entrance ramp. If you pass over Route 25, you will be heading directly to the town of Delphi. Of course, you can get to the cemetery by literally traveling down Main Street through Delphi center. From W200N you can take a left onto State Road 39 and head to Route 25 that way... taking Route 25 north to the MHBT and then the cemetery.

ET Remove my own theory. I really just wanted those who had questions about where the road goes to be able to visualize the road system in the area.

 

[Finnamin]

So sorry - somehow my reply to Roses was embedded in the original post. I am still learning how this site works.

 

[Cutiekitty]

If the phone was indeed known to have been travelling around downtown Delphi I’d wonder why anyone was searching the trails.

If the last “ping” was there it would be logical to search there. I’m not saying BG took the phone and brought it back. Also not saying it was actually pinging all over town, but the comment MP is interesting to me.

 

[zencompass]

The internet provider/cell phone provider used by Libby would have been known by her family and they would have given this information to the police.

I believe that the L.E. sent a request for disclosure to the internet provider under "exigent circumstances".

This indicates to me why the search was contained in the area where they did eventually locate the bodies.

The information received on the night of February 13th by the L.E., from the internet provider would have included the last ping in that large search area.



"Exigent circumstances- circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of the suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts."
Exigent Circumstances


18 U.S.C. § 2703 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2703. Required disclosure of customer communications or records

18 U.S.C. § 2703 - U.S. Code Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 2703 | FindLaw

 

[Confusion]

In the early days, I was one of the obnoxious ones asking and asking what MP meant by the phone pinging all over town. (This is in the news story the night of the disappearance and before the girls were found, and has been posted so many times here). Others provided information on how cell phones triangulate, and the length of time it takes a court order to release triangulated cell phone data, and I wondered how MP knew that so quickly.

All I could come up with the family was using something like Find My iPhone. Still don’t know. It’s one of those murky clues that has never been answered satisfactorily to me.

I've already said this several times, but once more won't hurt much. I think the problem is that people keep changing the wording of what her grandfather said. He said something like, "Her phone was pinging around town until about 5 hours ago." For some reason, people keep changing it to, "Her phone was pinging all over town until about 5 hours ago." There may not be a big difference between the two sentences, but they can mean completely different things. A rather gruesome comparison might be the difference between saying, "The bodies were found around Delphi." and "the bodies were found all over Delphi." In the first case, it's (to me) meaning "near" Delphi, whereas the second case would mean at multiple places within Delphi. I hope that makes sense.

 

[MistyWaters]

The picture of Abby fishing was from Monticello, river is the Tippecanoe river. We pinpointed the (almost) exact location in one of the earlier threads:

View attachment 185732

View attachment 185734

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-Nin

But what of the photo of the bridge...do you know, was it a different bridge?

“Abigail’s mom, Anna Williams, has a photo of the bridge as her Facebook cover photo. That photo was already in place before her daughter went missing.”
Abigail Williams & Liberty German: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[MistyWaters]

Have we ever heard L.e say they found the phone? Or just those words put into mouth by reporters?

Starts at appx 1:35. The data from the cellphone was obtained with the assistance of Indiana Computer Crimes Against Children Taskforce. LE also said the cellphone was found “near” the bodies.

 

[Finnamin]

Does anyone remember LE saying that the voice on the audio seems frustratingly familiar to some of them? They presumably have more audio than we have heard so this would be very interesting if true. I can’t find the MSM source for this anywhere, but I think I read it on this thread around the time of the murder/sexual assaults of three women at a Christian bookstore in St. Louis. There was rampant speculation that the perpetrator there was BG because of the hat on that suspect and the hat in the OBG sketch.

 

[PaulaDC]

In the early days, I was one of the obnoxious ones asking and asking what MP meant by the phone pinging all over town. (This is in the news story the night of the disappearance and before the girls were found, and has been posted so many times here). Others provided information on how cell phones triangulate, and the length of time it takes a court order to release triangulated cell phone data, and I wondered how MP knew that so quickly.

All I could come up with the family was using something like Find My iPhone. Still don’t know. It’s one of those murky clues that has never been answered satisfactorily to me.

Also the last feed had a post that mentioned the family having issues with the phone company and getting info on tracking/pinging. Just curious why that would be as I was under the impression that the phone was Grandma's?