Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[rosesfromangels]

I have some gut instincts- but want to discern the facts from hunches and rumors before hypothesizing

Respectfully snipped for focus.
Such a wise post.
Glad you are here Tower! Looking forward to your posts.

 

[CCJD]

OK - having said that: the article @ '5 fast facts' states that the phone was 'shut off' AFTER they were reported missing........so......how can they know it's shut off versus losing battery power...because that's interesting, & very specific to say 'shut off'.

RSBM

The 5 Fast Facts actually says "the girls phones pinged in multiple locations but were shut off shortly after they were reported missing."
BBM phones - plural. That's incorrect, only Libby had a phone.

It also says "The bodies were found on the edge of the water, upstream, against the flow of the creek, police said."
They were actually found about 50 feet from the creek.

Gotta love journalistic license.

 

[Cutiekitty]

No I havent seen LE address it and I agree with you . I haven't seen LE confirm it, and I have n't seen it denied by them either. I do think it was given straight to MSM by searchers around 9 p.m. that evening to get her pic out there and it was immediately dubbed the Snapchat murders once the girls were found. MSM and LE both used that as the "last seen" time, and that was important. There was also the earlier pic of the empty bridge pointing the other way too. What time was that one taken DWK?

BBM - I have no clue, but it also said posted 7 hours prior. They were both taken with SC, but they weren’t posted at the same time. Maybe seconds or minutes apart, but not simultaneously.

I’ve watched 3 PCs - 2/2017, 3/2017 and 7/2017 (fast forwarded through parts that obviously weren’t going to talk about the pic) and nothing so far. The SC pic wasn’t even at the PCs just the BG still.

Edit: typo

 

[somequestions]

I think the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German is a refrigerated truck driver.

There is no evidence to suggest the Delphi crime is linked to that of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale, Iowa. Liberty German only got a picture/video for the Delphi murders. Unfortunately you do not have that in the Iowa murders so saying they are the same person is hard to do.

The biggest question against the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German being a truck driver is the question regarding where the killer parked? A semi truck and trailer are rather big and can easily be seen by others. In the Iowa murders the bodies of those girls were found in a wildlife area at the end of a dead end road leading into the area. Dead end roads are not ideal for a semi truck with a trailer to be able to turn around.

In Iowa, the start of Meyers Lake bike trail area where Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins were kidnapped is right off an interstate exit near a Kwik Star gas station/convenience store, but is not a truck stop.

One similarity is that both the Monon High Bridge area in Delphi, Indiana and the Seven Bridges wildlife area in Iowa do not seem to be known except among locals. So the idea that the killer is a local based on that is a good idea, but not a very conclusive one. If the Delphi killer is an older person who likes these sorts of areas then there is the likelihood that he has been to many different places in his life that he knows and remembers.

I do not have an idea about who killed Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins. There is not a picture in that case. In the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German I think based on how the person was dressed that it is a refrigerated truck driver. Being dressed head to toe with what looks like a hat makes me think he was dressed that way for work. In order to know the Delphi area, he is probably an older man who has some type of interest in local hiking trails in the areas he visits often.

If a person likes to visit these type of local areas like the Monon High Bridge, committing murders there would make it unlikely he would return any time in the near future in case someone recognized him or his vehicle. I still think the Delphi killer could be someone who simply saw the area on a local map and decided to visit there for a walk. And then he walks away after committing the crime.

 

[Charlot123]

I am wondering, if this was a by chance encounter and the killer took the opportunity to attack and murder the girls. What would I expect to see? I would expect to see lots of chaos, lots of DNA and most likely no witnesses or witnesses, who saw a wet, crazy looking frenzy acting guy, possibly running like hell. The CS would not be on the other side of the creek. He would have killed the girls in the area between the private road and the creek bed.

I am wondering, if this was planned, but the girls had not been specifically targeted, what would I expect to see?
I would expect a certain degree of chaos, lots of DNA due to the fact, that the killer had to overpower 2 victims, possible defense wounds on the victims, not much staging of the CS or posing of the victims due to time constraints ( who checks the time, when committing such a horrible crime..?? I would think more like" in and out"). The killer may have forced the victims to cross the creek, especially if one of the victims was already diseased or had been drowned. The creek would also be a barrier for searchers. There may be witnesses, who saw the killer.

I am wondering, if the girl(s) were targeted and if the crime scene had been staged to look like a serial killer committed the murders. What would I expect to see if this was true? A tight timeline of events, witnesses to possibly see one person or more, who were not the killer, victim posing, possible signature, gruesome crime scene, no /or very little DNA of the killer at the CS/on the victims, possible accomplices. The victims may have been drowned in the creek and then may have disposed at the crime scene in a very brutal way to make it look like something it was not.

ALL IMO

Just wondering..

-Nin

That they were somehow known to the perp, is quite possible.

But from your post it follows that whoever targeted them, was mentally organized, to create a certain impression in a limited amount of time.

This more or less rules out the much-discussed version of local “El Chapos”; look at the level of mental disorganization displayed in NB’s killing, with the participants promptly ending behind bars.

So, my feeling is, either a loner or someone else marginally involved. Girls could have been cyberstalked (very possible, and in my experience, the craziest cyberstalkers may look and sound totally fine, unless you find out what they have done).

Or, a case of “mistaken identity” (possible). Someone else was targeted, jackets and all.

One more idea. Libby was attending criminology classes at Purdue. And from what I can see, she mush have been a quick learner. What if she got a “homework”, to sleuth some case, or investigate a problem, and came across something really damaging to someone? It could be anything, it could even be some cybercrime. Could she have been removed because she accidentally came across something people wanted to hide? Or both girls, since they were so close?

 

[Charlot123]

An idea about the perps hair:

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103​

Possibly. But, he does not look young. If he is young, then he must have altered his looks somehow, styled hair, put something behind the cheeks to make them look fuller? Can he be from amateur theater world, to know how to apply makeup, etc?

 

[Yvettea]

Putting his hair up would keep someone from grabbing it during an attack on the girls.

 

[SilentRogue]

I think the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German is a refrigerated truck driver.

There is no evidence to suggest the Delphi crime is linked to that of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale, Iowa. Liberty German only got a picture/video for the Delphi murders. Unfortunately you do not have that in the Iowa murders so saying they are the same person is hard to do.

The biggest question against the murderer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German being a truck driver is the question regarding where the killer parked? A semi truck and trailer are rather big and can easily be seen by others. In the Iowa murders the bodies of those girls were found in a wildlife area at the end of a dead end road leading into the area. Dead end roads are not ideal for a semi truck with a trailer to be able to turn around.

In Iowa, the start of Meyers Lake bike trail area where Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins were kidnapped is right off an interstate exit near a Kwik Star gas station/convenience store, but is not a truck stop.

One similarity is that both the Monon High Bridge area in Delphi, Indiana and the Seven Bridges wildlife area in Iowa do not seem to be known except among locals. So the idea that the killer is a local based on that is a good idea, but not a very conclusive one. If the Delphi killer is an older person who likes these sorts of areas then there is the likelihood that he has been to many different places in his life that he knows and remembers.

I do not have an idea about who killed Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins. There is not a picture in that case. In the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German I think based on how the person was dressed that it is a refrigerated truck driver. Being dressed head to toe with what looks like a hat makes me think he was dressed that way for work. In order to know the Delphi area, he is probably an older man who has some type of interest in local hiking trails in the areas he visits often.

If a person likes to visit these type of local areas like the Monon High Bridge, committing murders there would make it unlikely he would return any time in the near future in case someone recognized him or his vehicle. I still think the Delphi killer could be someone who simply saw the area on a local map and decided to visit there for a walk. And then he walks away after committing the crime.

The ice truck killer? Maybe hes an author, too!?!?!?

 

[MizStery]

There was also the earlier pic of the empty bridge pointing the other way too. What time was that one taken DWK?

Hi tresir2012,
Grey Hugh’s in one of his video’s ran through the timeline attempting to dispel some misconceptions about events.

I do not have a link. At one time it worked but now is broken.

Without a link please take my notes of Grey’s run down of the timeline from his podcast as a rough draft of events the 13th. LE timeline is the one that matters.

Kelsie dropped them off at 1:45.The second picture at the bridge which was further SE was taken 2:07. The video clip was taken after that at the far end of the bridge. Libby was off the SE end of the bridge when she filmed BG coming toward them.At 3:11 and 3:13 Derrick called Libby’s cell twice but did nor get an answer.​

I hope this has not already been posted. I dread the thought of posting the same info after it has been posted upstream.

MOO

 

[Yvettea]

Possibly. But, he does not look young. If he is young, then he must have altered his looks somehow, styled hair, put something behind the cheeks to make them look fuller? Can he be from amateur theater world, to know how to apply makeup, etc?

I don’t know who you are talking about when you say he doesn’t look young. I guess you mean the blurry video. But I think he does look young. My guess has always been 19 to 25.

 

[Yvettea]

Dbm

 

[Cutiekitty]

I don’t know who you are talking about when you say he doesn’t look young. I guess you mean the blurry video. But I think he does look young. My guess has always been 19 to 25.

In some of the stills or the beginning of the video he looks like a blurry older blob. In the last one or at the end of the video he looks young. Looks like he has that old beiber (sp?) haircut to me.

 

[Yvettea]

Not really a Bieber fan.

 

[Daae]

I don’t know who you are talking about when you say he doesn’t look young. I guess you mean the blurry video. But I think he does look young. My guess has always been 19 to 25.

Carter said in the May press conference, posted at the beginning of this thread ,"We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than its true age." That would make him 16 at the time of the murder on the low end.
IMO there is a possibility that LE is looking at an extended family (mitochondrial DNA) with many males in this age range. By opening up the age range LE may be pressuring someone who has aided in an alibi. For example if a father lied to protect an older brother, LE is letting the liar(s) know that all the sons are fair game. Just a thought.

 

[somequestions]

If this case gets solved, it will be because of Liberty German's presence of mind to get the picture. I do not think many people would have an opinion or a theory without it.

 

[janewall]

Carter said in the May press conference, posted at the beginning of this thread ,"We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than its true age." That would make him 16 at the time of the murder on the low end.
IMO there is a possibility that LE is looking at an extended family (mitochondrial DNA) with many males in this age range. By opening up the age range LE may be pressuring someone who has aided in an alibi. For example if a father lied to protect an older brother, LE is letting the liar(s) know that all the sons are fair game. Just a thought.

My understanding of genetics is that a father would not pass mtDNA to sons, except in the rare case of familial mitochondrial disease, but it's possible all of the father's and brother's brothers are in LE's sights because they all inherited the same mtDNA from their mother.

All brothers and sons of the 'protector' could have the same Y-chromosomal DNA.

ETA: MOO, I am not a geneticist.

 

[Harmony 2]

Hi everyone
We will be moving to a new thread in about 10 minutes. I will be back with a link.

 

[Harmony 2]

This thread is now closed. New thread linked below:

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106