Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[NameUser]

I still always wonder about the “couple” fighting under the bridge as described by a witness. Could it have been Abby or Libby arguing with BG/boyfriend/known male ?
If so , it’s said that the girls would stickup for each other so maybe the suspect killed both girls in a rage after an intense argument over something ? Jealousy,
need to cover something up ?.
Also , KG said 10-20 kids were there when she dropped the girls off ,but then there was a “lull” around the time the crime was committed. How would this be known for sure? All 20 kids left at the same time ? Doesn’t make sense to me. JMO.

Can you share where you heard about the 10-20 kids? This is new information to me, seems like a lot of people to clear out in 1-2 hours.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Hello, anything new in this case?

 

[Cutiekitty]

So if the only way that friend could have known it happened at 2:07 is if she saw it right when it was posted, than for her to say that exact time with certainty the next day, maybe she texted someone, even Libby, right after the post? That would have had a labeled time.

Also, LE would have known the exact time of the video and audio, right? I mean, that information is stored?

Sorry, I'm not that familiar with SC or iphones.

No, If the friend looked at the post at 9:07pm they could’ve guessed the post was posted at 2:07 because of the time stamp that says 7 hours ago. They could’ve also looked at it at 2:07. I think it was the first scenario.

I’d think LE knows the exact time the photo was posted, the video recorded and the the audio too. Some info they could get from the phone (if that’s how the video and audio were made) some info would have to come from SC.

The 2:07 time did not come from LE. It came from an individual and has been referenced in the media. Till I see LE say that’s the time I don’t count it as a fact.

 

[TL4S]

No, If the friend looked at the post at 9:07pm they could’ve guessed the post was posted at 2:07 because of the time stamp that says 7 hours ago. They could’ve also looked at it at 2:07. I think it was the first scenario.

I’d think LE knows the exact time the photo was posted, the video recorded and the the audio too. Some info they could get from the phone (if that’s how the video and audio were made) some info would have to come from SC.

The 2:07 time did not come from LE. It came from an individual and has been referenced in the media. Till I see LE say that’s the time I don’t count it as a fact.

Thank you! So really, the important time is actually the time of the video, since that appears to be the beginnings of the crime? Do we know what time that was, or is it only speculation? Thanks again for your help explaining!

 

[Cutiekitty]

Can you share where you heard about the 10-20 kids? This is new information to me, seems like a lot of people to clear out in 1-2 hours.

Renner interview of KG.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Thank you! So really, the important time is actually the time of the video, since that appears to be the beginnings of the crime? Do we know what time that was, or is it only speculation? Thanks again for your help explaining!

No clue. LE had BG last seen at 2:30 on the billboards initially, but that’s not on them anymore.

 

[Intrigued25]

Delphi property owner: "I can't comprehend it"

In reviewing old MSM I found this article in which RL states:

“To have something like this in your own house, your own home - I just can’t get my mind around it yet, it’s really difficult,” said Logan. “I can’t comprehend it.”

I am guessing he is referring to his property not his house....thoughts?

 

[heartgoesout]

Delphi property owner: "I can't comprehend it"

In reviewing old MSM I found this article in which RL states:

“To have something like this in your own house, your own home - I just can’t get my mind around it yet, it’s really difficult,” said Logan. “I can’t comprehend it.”

I am guessing he is referring to his property not his house....thoughts?

This is interesting wording...

 

[mtnlites]

I just watched that show last night. I thought it was interesting that they had said it was unseasonable warm that day. The girls did not want to wear even their sweatshirts and this guy almost disappears into his heavy clothing. I will have to watch this again since I missed the part about the mother hearing a conversation by the girls. I do remember the narrator say they could not go back to their pickup point because they would have to pass this guy.
That conversation by the girls would change my theory of the girls knowing this guy....and I was so convinced of that . If this is true I will have to go back to square one.
The Mothers attitude about this horrific event seemed rather shallow with a cocky attitude. She bothered me , not the way I would think you would act when your child has been murdered.
But that's just me.

My child is dead. There is no "normal" way to react to your child's death. Everyone is different and, unfortunately, they do not provide us with manuals on how to behave and act. Grief affects everyone in different ways.

 

[mtnlites]

I just watched that show last night. I thought it was interesting that they had said it was unseasonable warm that day. The girls did not want to wear even their sweatshirts and this guy almost disappears into his heavy clothing. I will have to watch this again since I missed the part about the mother hearing a conversation by the girls. I do remember the narrator say they could not go back to their pickup point because they would have to pass this guy.
That conversation by the girls would change my theory of the girls knowing this guy....and I was so convinced of that . If this is true I will have to go back to square one.
The Mothers attitude about this horrific event seemed rather shallow with a cocky attitude. She bothered me , not the way I would think you would act when your child has been murdered.
But that's just me.

Also, "unseasonably warm" simply means that the temperature isn't necessarily what one would expect for that time of year. They weren't exactly having a heat wave. Forty degrees is still cold to me. At 40-50 degrees I'd still be in a coat. My daughter, however, would not. She wants to look "cute" and takes every excuse to shrug out of her outerwear. That bridge is very windy and feels a few degrees cooler than the temps do down below. BG does not appear unreasonably bundled up to me. Much has been made about how "warm" it was that day, but not everyone feels temperatures in the same way. It's possible that he was bundled up to try and hide himself, but IMO it's just as possible that he was simply chilly.

 

[MistyWaters]

Delphi property owner: "I can't comprehend it"

In reviewing old MSM I found this article in which RL states:

“To have something like this in your own house, your own home - I just can’t get my mind around it yet, it’s really difficult,” said Logan. “I can’t comprehend it.”

I am guessing he is referring to his property not his house....thoughts?

There’s other comments made by RL indicating his tendency to exaggerate. He also referred to the far side of his 40 acre property where the bodies were discovered as “his backyard”.

 

[HockeyMom330]

No, If the friend looked at the post at 9:07pm they could’ve guessed the post was posted at 2:07 because of the time stamp that says 7 hours ago. They could’ve also looked at it at 2:07. I think it was the first scenario.

I’d think LE knows the exact time the photo was posted, the video recorded and the the audio too. Some info they could get from the phone (if that’s how the video and audio were made) some info would have to come from SC.

The 2:07 time did not come from LE. It came from an individual and has been referenced in the media. Till I see LE say that’s the time I don’t count it as a fact.

BBM

I wouldn't count it as a fact either, however because it is so precise it seems authentic. The timing of the Snapchat could have been cited as 'around 2:00pm or 2:15pm' as times often get rounded to the nearest 15 minute interval. But to describe it as 2:07pm makes it seem like it was an exact timestamp.

 

[MistyWaters]

No clue. LE had BG last seen at 2:30 on the billboards initially, but that’s not on them anymore.

Are FBI billboards presently featuring the Delphi case once again? Indeed they were for a time in 2017.

Not too long ago the FBI billboards in Indianapolis promoted the missing persons case of JC from Wisconsin. OT “The FBI believes a missing Wisconsin girl could be anywhere in the country and that's why they're asking for help.” Ironically in that case the “belief” in the need for a nationwide search proved misdirected as well.

FBI adds billboards, posters to search efforts for missing Wisconsin girl

 

[AC4RD]

... And it struck me today.......just how devastated they must have been that after nearly 2yrs of this focus on pushing the OBG mugshot.............. The utter commitment and emotional effort to get this out there........ And then April PC. Im drained just thinking of it.

Great description of how a lot of us feel about this case. What happened is so horrible, and it SEEMS like somebody should have recognized the photos/video but there's still no resolution and a bunch of family and friends with broken hearts. You're right, it is all so awful that it leaves you (including me) feeling tired. This is one I keep hoping WILL be solved and some heartless psycho will go to jail forever. :-(

 

[FinePrint]

Still at large, sure has my interest!
Kidnapping and assault suspect facing 7 charges, new details released
At lot of articles to read out there on this guy that makes me wonder...

 

[HockeyMom330]

Also, "unseasonably warm" simply means that the temperature isn't necessarily what one would expect for that time of year. They weren't exactly having a heat wave. Forty degrees is still cold to me. At 40-50 degrees I'd still be in a coat. My daughter, however, would not. She wants to look "cute" and takes every excuse to shrug out of her outerwear. That bridge is very windy and feels a few degrees cooler than the temps do down below. BG does not appear unreasonably bundled up to me. Much has been made about how "warm" it was that day, but not everyone feels temperatures in the same way. It's possible that he was bundled up to try and hide himself, but IMO it's just as possible that he was simply chilly.

BBM

What if this crime was not only not targeted, but not even planned at all...maybe it just unfolded as a random crime of opportunity? Maybe BG (a mentally unstable guy with a tramatic background and a quick fuse) had a really stressful morning (maybe an arguement with his parents, or got dumped by his girlfriend, or lost his job etc...) so decided to walk the trails to blow off steam. The bridge might be a place he went in his youth, and he might find comfort in being outdoors. He bundles up in a hoodie and jacket and maybe a hat and scarf, because its winter. He is not trying to disguise himself, just stay warm. He parks somewhere familiar at the CPS building (as locals often do) or cemetary. He is not worried about his car being spotted by anyone, as he has no criminal plans. He is carrying a gun and/or knife, not because he intends to harm anyone but because it is common to do so when hiking in rural Indiana. There is no 'kill kit'. At some point during his hike he spots Libby and Abby. For reasons unknown he is triggered by them and starts having dark impulses. Without even thinking he starts following them towards the bridge, creeping them. He enjoys following them, like a predator stalking its prey. It makes him feel powerful and in control and he forgets about his troubles. When he catches up with the girls at the end of the bridge there is nowhere else for him, or the girls, to go. He senses they are afraid, which feeds his ego. He can see that noone else is around. He impulsively pulls his weapon on the girls "Guys". They freeze out of fear. He then orders them "down the hill" to whisk them out of sight. He has no plan or contingency for if one/both run, but he is lucky they comply. At this point he can't believe what he has just done. He didn't mean for this to happen but knows there is no turning back now. He is in a panic but since he knows the trails well enough he is able to find a secluded spot to finalize his attack on the girls. He murders them quickly (to silence the witnesses) but possibly brutally and exits the area as fast as possible.

This is all JMO

 

[Boxer]

BBM

What if this crime was not only not targeted, but not even planned at all...maybe it just unfolded as a random crime of opportunity? Maybe BG (a mentally unstable guy with a tramatic background and a quick fuse) had a really stressful morning (maybe an arguement with his parents, or got dumped by his girlfriend, or lost his job etc...) so decided to walk the trails to blow off steam. The bridge might be a place he went in his youth, and he might find comfort in being outdoors. He bundles up in a hoodie and jacket and maybe a hat and scarf, because its winter. He is not trying to disguise himself, just stay warm. He parks somewhere familiar at the CPS building (as locals often do) or cemetary. He is not worried about his car being spotted by anyone, as he has no criminal plans. He is carrying a gun and/or knife, not because he intends to harm anyone but because it is common to do so when hiking in rural Indiana. There is no 'kill kit'. At some point during his hike he spots Libby and Abby. For reasons unknown he is triggered by them and starts having dark impulses. Without even thinking he starts following them towards the bridge, creeping them. He enjoys following them, like a predator stalking its prey. It makes him feel powerful and in control and he forgets about his troubles. When he catches up with the girls at the end of the bridge there is nowhere else for him, or the girls, to go. He senses they are afraid, which feeds his ego. He can see that noone else is around. He impulsively pulls his weapon on the girls "Guys". They freeze out of fear. He then orders them "down the hill" to whisk them out of sight. He has no plan or contingency for if one/both run, but he is lucky they comply. At this point he can't believe what he has just done. He didn't mean for this to happen but knows there is no turning back now. He is in a panic but since he knows the trails well enough he is able to find a secluded spot to finalize his attack on the girls. He murders them quickly (to silence the witnesses) but possibly brutally and exits the area as fast as possible.

This is all JMO

MOO I think that is a very plausible explanation of the known facts, my one reservation is the clothes, MOO he isn't in his own clothes, so maybe he worked on plumbing in the morning and had a set of someone else stuff on. Or maybe he was planning something without fully admitting it to himself.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

BBM

What if this crime was not only not targeted, but not even planned at all...maybe it just unfolded as a random crime of opportunity? Maybe BG (a mentally unstable guy with a tramatic background and a quick fuse) had a really stressful morning (maybe an arguement with his parents, or got dumped by his girlfriend, or lost his job etc...) so decided to walk the trails to blow off steam. The bridge might be a place he went in his youth, and he might find comfort in being outdoors. He bundles up in a hoodie and jacket and maybe a hat and scarf, because its winter. He is not trying to disguise himself, just stay warm. He parks somewhere familiar at the CPS building (as locals often do) or cemetary. He is not worried about his car being spotted by anyone, as he has no criminal plans. He is carrying a gun and/or knife, not because he intends to harm anyone but because it is common to do so when hiking in rural Indiana. There is no 'kill kit'. At some point during his hike he spots Libby and Abby. For reasons unknown he is triggered by them and starts having dark impulses. Without even thinking he starts following them towards the bridge, creeping them. He enjoys following them, like a predator stalking its prey. It makes him feel powerful and in control and he forgets about his troubles. When he catches up with the girls at the end of the bridge there is nowhere else for him, or the girls, to go. He senses they are afraid, which feeds his ego. He can see that noone else is around. He impulsively pulls his weapon on the girls "Guys". They freeze out of fear. He then orders them "down the hill" to whisk them out of sight. He has no plan or contingency for if one/both run, but he is lucky they comply. At this point he can't believe what he has just done. He didn't mean for this to happen but knows there is no turning back now. He is in a panic but since he knows the trails well enough he is able to find a secluded spot to finalize his attack on the girls. He murders them quickly (to silence the witnesses) but possibly brutally and exits the area as fast as possible.

This is all JMO

Absolutely how I see it also. Random. Wrong place and wrong time.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Are FBI billboards presently featuring the Delphi case once again? Indeed they were for a time in 2017.

Not too long ago the FBI billboards in Indianapolis promoted the missing persons case of JC from Wisconsin. OT “The FBI believes a missing Wisconsin girl could be anywhere in the country and that's why they're asking for help.” Ironically in that case the “belief” in the need for a nationwide search proved misdirected as well.

FBI adds billboards, posters to search efforts for missing Wisconsin girl

TBH I’m not sure if there are any more billboards. There aren’t any in my area, but I’m pretty far away. I’d imagine they did use some to push out the new sketch. I know I’ve seen google pics with the time and the old sketch and a whole bunch without.

 

[Cutiekitty]

BBM

What if this crime was not only not targeted, but not even planned at all...maybe it just unfolded as a random crime of opportunity? Maybe BG (a mentally unstable guy with a tramatic background and a quick fuse) had a really stressful morning (maybe an arguement with his parents, or got dumped by his girlfriend, or lost his job etc...) so decided to walk the trails to blow off steam. The bridge might be a place he went in his youth, and he might find comfort in being outdoors. He bundles up in a hoodie and jacket and maybe a hat and scarf, because its winter. He is not trying to disguise himself, just stay warm. He parks somewhere familiar at the CPS building (as locals often do) or cemetary. He is not worried about his car being spotted by anyone, as he has no criminal plans. He is carrying a gun and/or knife, not because he intends to harm anyone but because it is common to do so when hiking in rural Indiana. There is no 'kill kit'. At some point during his hike he spots Libby and Abby. For reasons unknown he is triggered by them and starts having dark impulses. Without even thinking he starts following them towards the bridge, creeping them. He enjoys following them, like a predator stalking its prey. It makes him feel powerful and in control and he forgets about his troubles. When he catches up with the girls at the end of the bridge there is nowhere else for him, or the girls, to go. He senses they are afraid, which feeds his ego. He can see that noone else is around. He impulsively pulls his weapon on the girls "Guys". They freeze out of fear. He then orders them "down the hill" to whisk them out of sight. He has no plan or contingency for if one/both run, but he is lucky they comply. At this point he can't believe what he has just done. He didn't mean for this to happen but knows there is no turning back now. He is in a panic but since he knows the trails well enough he is able to find a secluded spot to finalize his attack on the girls. He murders them quickly (to silence the witnesses) but possibly brutally and exits the area as fast as possible.

This is all JMO

This is how I’ve been leaning. The only thing I’d change is I think he might be on the younger end of the age range. This easily explains the following:

Why he’s at the bridge in the middle of the day - he’s out of school too.

His knowledge of the area currently not from visiting it as a kid - He goes there to hang out and knows what the terrain is currently like.

His knowledge of where the girls were - SC is HUGELY popular with younger people. He didn’t have to say anything to them or converse. He’d know from the pic.

The lack of sound during the initial encounter - the girls may have known him from SC, sporting events, siblings, just seeing him around. I’m not saying they were BFFs. They may not have even really liked him or did at one point and had a falling out, but I’d think they wouldn’t be as alarmed at a teen approaching them as they would if it was a middle aged creeper stranger following them.

Navigating the terrain would be a lot easier for a younger person (even if they were overweight) than it would be for a middle aged overweight person.

The hiding in plain sight comment - It’s a teen hang out. It wouldn’t be unusual to see a local teen there and if other teens saw him he wouldn’t really stand out. He could’ve told LE he was there earlier in the day and left before the girls got there. Plus there were a lot of kids there that day per KG.

The “you never thought we’d change direction” comment - The first sketch released was a middle aged man not a kid. If it is a teen he probably did think he got away with it after seeing that sketch. I doubt everyone’s first thought was “a local teen had to have done this”. They were thinking an adult stranger. Actually LE probably was thinking a younger person initially because there were a lot of younger people there.

Just some thoughts I’ve been having. Sorry for all of the words and hijacking your post. Been thinking about this for a long time and it just all came out.

Edit: the hiding in plain sight bullet could be combined with the change in direction comment.