Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[Jabarn]

At one point, in one of the pressers, it was stated that the whole crime took place in a matter of minutes. It's in one of those links on the media pages.

IMO he was out of there quickly after killing them and didn't risk bringing them back. There were people out searching all night, even with the "official" search called off. If he'd killed them offsite, it seems more logical for him to place their bodies someplace else. What purpose would bringing them back serve?

The only possibility I can think, because the theory keeps being brought up (that the girls were captured and forced to a shack or barn or whatever, and brought back to the abduction zone many hours later) is they were brought back alive. It’s the only way that theory makes sense to me. If I gave it a percentage of possibility, it would be very small.

I agree A&L were likely killed very quickly. The night searchers who held on must have not seen them in the darkness or didn’t go across the creek to that specific area. IMO.

 

[JnRyan]

He may have had a gun to threaten them and make them do what he said, but after what he did to them, silent deaths are the only "safe" way out -- he had to have tied them up initially, IMO, so that he could deal with one sweet little victim at a time. Then he used ropes or cords or belts, or just his hands to strangle them, or he may have just battered them with his gun or a rock, etc., to make sure they were dead before he left.

And, IMO, the more LE talks about this person -- "We know who you are," here is his pic, etc. etc., the farther away he goes, no matter how he has to do it. He's already kidnapped, sexually abused, and killed two people -- stealing a car in a dark parking lot using a gun would be no big deal -- or robbing someone and jumping on a bus to Whoknowswhere.

If he didn't kill both of them or the first one with a gun, that is the one other scenario I can see. The gun for control and then some other up close and personal method. In which case his DNA would be there.

I tend toward this killer using the easy way. He shoots both of them. Yes, he is taking a chance given that he is on private property and he doesn't know if the owner, Ron Logan, is at home. But taking TWO girls at the end of the bridge and then making them walk down the hill and across the creek was a BIG chance by itself.

But yeah, ANYONE who is bold enough to do this on a railroad bridge in daylight, risk being seen from the bridge by someone else coming up later and then killing Abigail and Liberty on someone else's property is bold enough to do ANYTHING at ANYTIME to ANYONE - either before or since.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

I think there is something taken out between Guys.......down the hill.

Could be
Guys, it's private land, now get DTH
Guys, here's my badge, now get DTH
Guys, I've got a gun, so get DTH
Guys, wtf are you doing here, get DTH

MOO

Or two unrelated sentences

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Excellent point!

This is a question we will likely never get the answer to, unless a trial happens and those details are disclosed to the public.

I wish every single day for an arrest.

Abby and Libby should be enjoying the sunny days of summer and this monster should never see daylight again.

JMO

Public hanging should be his fate!

 

[JnRyan]

Public hanging should be his fate!

You're too kind. I could think of other possibilities. But none are probably appropriate for this forum.

 

[MJPeony]

At one point, in one of the pressers, it was stated that the whole crime took place in a matter of minutes. It's in one of those links on the media pages.

IMO he was out of there quickly after killing them and didn't risk bringing them back. There were people out searching all night, even with the "official" search called off. If he'd killed them offsite, it seems more logical for him to place their bodies someplace else. What purpose would bringing them back serve?

Oh right- yes LE did make that comment about it being a matter of minutes. Thanks. I suppose that is the best indicator from media/LE that the girls weren’t taken somewhere else.

As for what purpose it would serve to bring them back- I agree, it wouldn’t make sense to leave them there if he’d taken them any distance away. My theory- IF he would have taken them elsewhere- involves him not taking them far at all. He would have kept them relatively close by and then left them/killed them at crime scene as he felt pressure to get out of there later that night/early morning after most of the search team left and before large numbers resumed the next morning.

But to your point- LE has implied they did not go far. (I have to be honest though and say I’ve started to question some of what LE has stated- I’m not 100% anymore on what they may be taking liberties with regarding what they say to the public. But it would at least seem they wouldn’t have a reason to mislead on this.)

 

[Snoop Sister]

It has been such a long time with no follow up press conference from the LE

 

[TL4S]

What I know through LE statements is that the girls crossed the creek. I know from photos that there was crime scene tape around the area the girls were found.

What I don't know is if BG crossed the creek. LE has never said one way or the other (that I am aware of), and no photos have ever been published of crime scene tape anywhere along the creek bank (that I'm aware of).

The only other things I feel confident as being facts are that BG was walking towards them within 60 feet or so on the bridge, and that he was with them at the spot they were found. Somewhere in the mix he said, "guys" and "down the hill."

I know through the girls' family statements that he made them uncomfortable enough that they apparently wanted to avoid him.

Looking at the maps, the area in question is really not that large.

With that in mind, my questions are:

-Why did the girls cross the creek?
-Did BG cross the creek? And if he did, why were the creek and banks not taped off?
-Did the girls have a situation with him earlier on the trail that made them uncomfortable, was it his approach on the bridge, or something else?
-Could BG have snuck up on them elsewhere in the park besides the bridge end?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I am absolutely convinced he wasn't disguised.

Of course I don't know, if BG was disguised in any form. But when I see my avatar, means the pic of NBG, and I put this non-evil/quite handsome looking head on top of BG's body (dressed a bit unstylish, but with clean clothing), then why should the girls have thought of him to be such a creepy man? I think, his head/face wasn't that nice on the bridge as the witness saw it on the trail/in a car/where ever. The only explanation would be: his head/face looked changed on MHB.
IF this had been a thrill-kill and some sort of personally "challenge", to manage the death of two sweet girls in broad daylight without getting caught for years (to come ), having as a result hundreds of news reports/videos/pictures/SM texts on his devilish "Internet success check list", then wearing a disguise would be a novelty in national crime, he proudly used perhaps. All IMO and MOO. Who knows ...

 

[BNA]

It has been such a long time with no follow up press conference from the LE

Someday they will have another. Someday we will know what LE knows.

I think we have to trust that they know what they are doing and why they are doing it. What choice do we have other than that?

 

[mtnlites]

Of course I don't know, if BG was disguised in any form. But when I see my avatar, means the pic of NBG, and I put this non-evil/quite handsome looking head on top of BG's body (dressed a bit unstylish, but with clean clothing), then why should the girls have thought of him to be such a creepy man? I think, his head/face wasn't that nice on the bridge as the witness saw it on the trail/in a car/where ever. The only explanation would be: his head/face looked changed on MHB.
IF this had been a thrill-kill and some sort of personally "challenge", to manage the death of two sweet girls in broad daylight without getting caught for years (to come ), having as a result hundreds of news reports/videos/pictures/SM texts on his devilish "Internet success check list", then wearing a disguise would be a novelty in national crime, he proudly used perhaps. All IMO and MOO. Who knows ...

It may not have been how he looked that they found "creepy", but how he acted. As a young woman, if a guy was following me or making some kind of weird gesture or comments to me then I'd find him creepy no matter how cute he was.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It may not have been how he looked that they found "creepy", but how he acted. As a young woman, if a guy was following me or making some kind of weird gesture or comments to me then I'd find him creepy no matter how cute he was.

Maybe it was that. But with hands in his (many) pockets and with no recording of something, he may have shouted from far away, I think of other possibilities.

 

[MistyWaters]

What I know through LE statements is that the girls crossed the creek. I know from photos that there was crime scene tape around the area the girls were found.

What I don't know is if BG crossed the creek. LE has never said one way or the other (that I am aware of), and no photos have ever been published of crime scene tape anywhere along the creek bank (that I'm aware of).

The only other things I feel confident as being facts are that BG was walking towards them within 60 feet or so on the bridge, and that he was with them at the spot they were found. Somewhere in the mix he said, "guys" and "down the hill."

I know through the girls' family statements that he made them uncomfortable enough that they apparently wanted to avoid him.

Looking at the maps, the area in question is really not that large.

With that in mind, my questions are:

-Why did the girls cross the creek?
-Did BG cross the creek? And if he did, why were the creek and banks not taped off?
-Did the girls have a situation with him earlier on the trail that made them uncomfortable, was it his approach on the bridge, or something else?
-Could BG have snuck up on them elsewhere in the park besides the bridge end?

You reminded me of something I wondered about. After the police access barriers were removed, why was the yellow police tape left behind, seemingly undisturbed? After the conclusion of the official investigation and no further police presence to ensure unauthorized access, isn’t it typical that the police tape is removed by LE? Or was some of it removed but some not?

This is the first homicide case in an outdoor-type environment I can recall where the location that a crime occurred could be determined by viewing abandoned yellow police tape. That’s also a contradiction to how LE has extraordinarily guarded other facts involving the crime scene or how the crime occurred.

 

[Cutiekitty]

It may not have been how he looked that they found "creepy", but how he acted. As a young woman, if a guy was following me or making some kind of weird gesture or comments to me then I'd find him creepy no matter how cute he was.

I’ve been thinking that BG could’ve been someone that they had a previous relationship with, but it soured. Like maybe someone in their social group or on the periphery that they were friends with or knew, but he started making bad choices and they no longer thought highly of him.

There is a person I was friends with that I do not care for anymore. If I saw her I wouldn’t necessarily say her name if I was discussing her with someone I was close to that knows the situation. There would be no need. The conversation would sound pretty weird if someone overheard it.

Just a possibility and something that I’ve been considering.

 

[on the case]

Hi everyone. New member here. Although I've followed this particular case on websleuths and msm since the beginning this is my first post. I remember watching the news February 13, 2017 about 2 girls missing from the trails. I immediately had a bad feeling and when they later announced the search to be called off for the night I was furious. I just remember saying to myself who does that? Are they that naive just because it's a small "safe" town? The next day when they were found dead all I could think of was the Iowa case where the 2 cousins Lyric and Elizabeth had been found dead in a similar way. While there has been no link made between both sets of murders they originally appeared to me to be linked. Of course now I just don't know. Eery though. Some thoughts that I've had about the Delphi case vary almost weekly now. The April 2019 PC had me convinced that we would soon know more and/or an arrest would be made. For some reason my mind put July 4th as that deadline. Well that didn't happen. So I will state some of my concerns/observations regarding this case. I don't think I can give initials due to TOS but here are a few of them. One person is constant in the media and every time this person speaks about the girls there is a twitch of their lips. I'm not sure why this bothers me so much but it happens every time I've seen this person speak about the girls. I guess I keep wondering is it dupers delight? While I don't believe this person had anything to do with these murders it does make me wonder if they have figured out who did and can't bring themselves to believe it. Like the twitch is an unconscious dupers delight if there even is such a thing. Another observation is from the first night search for the girls when a searcher identifying himself as a friend of the family and also his name is given on MSM makes a statement something to the effect of they'll be there as long as it takes to find the vic/ girls. Like he started to say victims and hurried to change it to girls. No one knew they were victims of anything at that time so that always bothered me.

 

[on the case]

And then there's that OBGS. That never looked anything close to the picture Libby took. Since the first time I saw those photos each looked like a different person to me but clearly it is the same person. The one picture is a bit clearer than the other. It's like my mind immediately filled in the blanks of the clearer picture's face although it's really not clear. I see a baby face on this guy meaning the cheek area seems a little chubby. I do believe he is covered in at least one layer of clothing that is too big for him deliberately. He didn't want anyone to see him in his regular attire in moo because he would be more identifiable in moo. Also any DNA or other contaminants could just be taken off and later discarded, washed, donated or even burned.

 

[tresir2012]

What I know through LE statements is that the girls crossed the creek. I know from photos that there was crime scene tape around the area the girls were found.

What I don't know is if BG crossed the creek. LE has never said one way or the other (that I am aware of), and no photos have ever been published of crime scene tape anywhere along the creek bank (that I'm aware of).

The only other things I feel confident as being facts are that BG was walking towards them within 60 feet or so on the bridge, and that he was with them at the spot they were found. Somewhere in the mix he said, "guys" and "down the hill."

I know through the girls' family statements that he made them uncomfortable enough that they apparently wanted to avoid him.

Looking at the maps, the area in question is really not that large.

With that in mind, my questions are:

-Why did the girls cross the creek?
-Did BG cross the creek? And if he did, why were the creek and banks not taped off?
-Did the girls have a situation with him earlier on the trail that made them uncomfortable, was it his approach on the bridge, or something else?
-Could BG have snuck up on them elsewhere in the park besides the bridge end?

I am not convinced they crossed the creek and what you say about the south bank having no crime scene tape is a good point. LE have said the BG pic was just before criminal activity began which is not necessarily the murder but could be just the abduction. They could have been driven from the bridge to the rear of the cemetery straightaway and taken down that way, hence the reenactments being wrong. It would explain few witnesses seeing him and the lack of south bank crime scene tape and the quick getaway and the possibility of returning to take part in the search if he is a local. MOO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

-Did BG cross the creek? And if he did, why were the creek and banks not taped off?

bbm
Even foot print/s were found on the bank (I remember a pic in the news, which I didn't save) and despite the possibility, the girls and/or the BG could have had entered the bank, it wasn't taped off. You are right: that's an important question, you have.
Actually it is confirming the fact, nobody entered the bank from the creek and from across the creek ...

<modsnip: Do not discuss information from scanner thread.>

 

[tresir2012]

You reminded me of something I wondered about. After the police access barriers were removed, why was the yellow police tape left behind, seemingly undisturbed? After the conclusion of the official investigation and no further police presence to ensure unauthorized access, isn’t it typical that the police tape is removed by LE? Or was some of it removed but some not?

This is the first homicide case in an outdoor-type environment I can recall where the location that a crime occurred could be determined by viewing abandoned yellow police tape. That’s also a contradiction to how LE has extraordinarily guarded other facts involving the crime scene or how the crime occurred.

LE continued to go back there up to two weeks afterwards IIRC.

 

[tresir2012]

Hi everyone. New member here. Although I've followed this particular case on websleuths and msm since the beginning this is my first post. I remember watching the news February 13, 2017 about 2 girls missing from the trails. I immediately had a bad feeling and when they later announced the search to be called off for the night I was furious. I just remember saying to myself who does that? Are they that naive just because it's a small "safe" town? The next day when they were found dead all I could think of was the Iowa case where the 2 cousins Lyric and Elizabeth had been found dead in a similar way. While there has been no link made between both sets of murders they originally appeared to me to be linked. Of course now I just don't know. Eery though. Some thoughts that I've had about the Delphi case vary almost weekly now. The April 2019 PC had me convinced that we would soon know more and/or an arrest would be made. For some reason my mind put July 4th as that deadline. Well that didn't happen. So I will state some of my concerns/observations regarding this case. I don't think I can give initials due to TOS but here are a few of them. One person is constant in the media and every time this person speaks about the girls there is a twitch of their lips. I'm not sure why this bothers me so much but it happens every time I've seen this person speak about the girls. I guess I keep wondering is it dupers delight? While I don't believe this person had anything to do with these murders it does make me wonder if they have figured out who did and can't bring themselves to believe it. Like the twitch is an unconscious dupers delight if there even is such a thing. Another observation is from the first night search for the girls when a searcher identifying himself as a friend of the family and also his name is given on MSM makes a statement something to the effect of they'll be there as long as it takes to find the vic/ girls. Like he started to say victims and hurried to change it to girls. No one knew they were victims of anything at that time so that always bothered me.

Welcome to WS. Good recollections in your posts. I certainly remember that but haven't found the video. Two searchers were interviewed. Do you have a link by any chance?