Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[raja]

I wasn't being sarcastic. I was agreeing, sorry if it came off a bit short. Yes, we are meant to believe it was banter about song lyrics , joking around about sex with a 14 yo with one of the two in the convo being a LEO as well. Joking about statutory rape in other words. It makes me mad.

Are others able to see this banter at the time? Could this have been done in retaliation towards one of the two bantering?
Things that make me go hmmmm.

 

[Jamie737]

Sorry to highjack your theory but the only way it works for me is IF: The girls were waiting at the SE end for BG to cross (apparently this is proper etiquette). For some unknown reason they perceive him to be creepy so Libby secretly records him as he is approaching and then puts her phone in her clothing so it still records their audio.

I have been thinking about this. I think BG crossed from the side where the girls ended their walk and then turned around. In my mind this is the trigger that signalled to Libby to hit record from her selfie.

It would also explain all the confusing witness reports. Who could have seen the guy if he came in from the quiet side?

 

[Cutiekitty]

I enjoy your theories, thanks for posting and giving us new thougths to consider.

The only reason your theory doesn't completely work for me is because is it known that Libby recorded BG on the bridge 60 ft from her (and she was standing just at the end of the bridge on the SE side). She wasn't under the bridge or in the woods, and 60ft is not a long distance. BG was practically on top of the girls at this point, and with no witnesses in sight it is most logical to assume that he whisked them 'down the hill' and deeper into the woods so the crime could unfold.

Sorry to highjack your theory but the only way it works for me is IF: The girls were waiting at the SE end for BG to cross (apparently this is proper etiquette). For some unknown reason they perceive him to be creepy so Libby secretly records him as he is approaching and then puts her phone in her clothing so it still records their audio. He said "Guys" to greet them and then maybe asks the girls if they know where the trail continues and Libby relplies something to the effect of 'the path ends here, there is nowhere to go'. So BG then turns around to re-cross the bridge. The girls are relieved and somewhat embarassed that they feared him but as you propose, they don't want to be on the bridge with him at the same time, either in front or behind him, so they decide to head into the woods and cross the creek so they can get back to the side where their ride would be meeting. But BG enters the woods on the North side after crossing the bridge and intercepts the girls. They try to run towards the cemetary but he catches up with them and pulls a weapon. He then orders them 'down the hill' to the crime scene. Libby's phone would have needed to be recording the whole time to capture BG's words, or she would have had to turn it on again.

I like hearing both of your theories

The only thing about this one that might be an issue is voluntarily crossing the creek. That water was frosty and although it is shallow in areas, its my understanding that you will still get at least your shoes wet and they weren’t wearing flip flops. Personally, wet shoes feel gross to me. Everything except the creek crossing sounds good to me though.

 

[Jess.Jess]

That detail also plays into my theory and just makes "sense" based off of the girls frequently being described as helpful, nice girls.

Now this is me just thinking out loud...
Maybe he was asking how to get back to the cemetary because he had a car broken down there and got lost? Or SOMETHING that was asking them (example), "so I go down the hill.. and then where should I go?" (Reiterating directions they gave him?) "Which way after I go down the hill?"

Again, I'm just thinking out loud.
So him acting as a poor lost guy, they tried to walk down to show him? Idk. I would think their travels to the kill site were so far and so long that BG would fear someone walking up on the railroad (heading southeast) while they were walking towards potential witnesses coming up to the RR? They would have still been in sight from the railroad, just below. And with the weather and season, everything was dead. So coloring of clothing would stick out like a sore thumb while they were still near the bridge with the brown backdrop color of dead leaves and trees.
To me.. that seems like a huge risk to a person trying to hold 2 girls hostage ALL that way until getting them to the kill site and just hoping no witnesses come up on the trail and see?

Also, there was crime scene tape taping off an area at the southend end of the RR. (Far side from where they entered)
So here's a thought.. (or another thought, but I'm riding this wave)
After being down there while they were possibly showing him where to go or finding something for him.. whatever the case may be, he played nice guy, he didn't hold them hostage or pose as a threat yet. So once down there, he suddenly makes a move and kills one quickly, then the other girl runs and he attacks her or she is wounded/killed once he catches up to her at the end of the RR located at the top of the hill where it was taped off.
Or he could have critically wounded one to the point where she was immobile. Other girl then runs, but he quickly kills her because he caught her at the top of the hill at the end of the RR. She was running the way they came from to get back to the trails, knowing it was a route to escape or route leading to others?
I def think one ran and ended up being hurt/killed at the southend of the bridge because it wouldn't make sense for one of them to be killed BEFORE going down the hill. Would it? I dont think BG would have wanted to do that there, which is why he took or led them to the kill site. It was obscured and remote... Off the beaten path. Killing one at the end of the RR would have been more of a frantic kill (I think) to prevent one from getting away.

Side.note- I removed where i I specified which girl (names) because I am totally theorizing and don't want to speculate such horrific details and attach their name to it out of respect.
This scenario has just been heavily on my mind all night and wanted to voice it.
The unknown drives me mad! I blame my insomnia on all of the unknown in cases of the world and my brain constantly tries to make sense of things. Lol

 

[Cutiekitty]

This is just a stupid side thought, but what if the family, or LE, is hoping to lure BG out by the public broadcasts? LE did say they thought he was watching the PC, wanting to know what they know. If somebody says something only BG would know... Yeah, probably a stupid thought.

No, not stupid. It’s outside the box thinking. I don’t agree, but I see nothing wrong with theorizing. That’s he purpose of this board right?

I think the purpose of the PC was to poke at BG or someone close to him. The YT stuff doesn’t seem to be controlled enough to be a LE thing. Plus, up until recently, KGs established SM accounts were wide open. No need to create another SM venue for communication. JMO and I could be totally wrong.

 

[BNA]

I wasn't being sarcastic. I was agreeing, sorry if it came off a bit short. Yes, we are meant to believe it was banter about song lyrics , joking around about sex with a 14 yo with one of the two in the convo being a LEO as well. Joking about statutory rape in other words. It makes me mad.

I think it is important to know who, outside of folks on this site, is/are publicly making light of it.

 

[Jess.Jess]

I would have thought it may be spotty and intermittent anywhere on those trails and in those woods. Have we ever heard whether there was good reception there?

There is a cell tower actually at the trails. There was an experiment done on the bridge where someone sent a snapchat where Libby took Abby's picture, to test if it would immediately be sent through and verify that the timestamp of her snap was accurate and wasn't delayed due to weak signal.
It went through immediately.

I don't know if he had the same provider as she did. Example: she had tmobile, experiment phone had verizon.
Or if different providers would even make a difference in signal like it did at one time.

 

[TL4S]

I like hearing both of your theories

The only thing about this one that might be an issue is voluntarily crossing the creek. That water was frosty and although it is shallow in areas, its my understanding that you will still get at least your shoes wet and they weren’t wearing flip flops. Personally, wet shoes feel gross to me. Everything except the creek crossing sounds good to me though.

I agree, I don't think the girls would voluntarily cross the creek, but if BG was hanging around on the bridge, watching them from up there, I could see them feeling they had no choice but the cross.

And poking holes in my own theory, I don't understand why BG crossed the bridge to begin with, if he planned to approach the girls, only not to engage them on the south end and recross. I think in my mind, even though he was only 60 feet away during the video, if the girls headed into the woods immediately after the video, why not follow them? Maybe he did? Or maybe he decided the south end was too exposed for someone coming off the trail and onto the bridge on the other side, so he decided to go back, check for people, then cut them off. It bothers me a lot that as long as he was on the bridge, the girls were basically cornered.

 

[HockeyMom330]

Following along. Going on the theory being discussed. Could the girls have crossed the creek to get to one of their homes. Didn't Abbey live close by?

I read somewhere that as the crow flies Abby did live close by, but that on foot it would have been very difficult for them to reach her house from their known location as they would have needed to go through lots of bushes and ditches/ravines. It's certainly possible that they had the thought to run to her house for safety (although I think her mom was at work...so not sure if anyone was home). If they did make a break for freedom I think it is more likely they tried to head to the private drive or the cemetary.

 

[Jess.Jess]

I agree. LE has repeatedly stated the purpose of the release of the audio was so somebody might identify the voice and provide that “one tip” they’re looking for.

LE is not interested in the general public attempting to figure out how the crime occurred, they only want to know who’s responsible. Therefore no explanation has been offered with the limited information that’s been released.

Exactly.
I mean.. Dr freaking Phil even said that he was telling them to go down the hill.
It would be the biggest misconception of the case.
I mean.. besides the first sketch..
I felt duped

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I have been thinking about this. I think BG crossed from the side where the girls ended their walk and then turned around. In my mind this is the trigger that signalled to Libby to hit record from her selfie.

It would also explain all the confusing witness reports. Who could have seen the guy if he came in from the quiet side?

This would also make sense of if the girls were already recording and just 'talking about things that teenage girls talk about ' (paraphrase) and BG appears from the direction you suggest, the 'Guys' as a greeting works as BG passes the girls, also the edit or scrambling of girls maybe saying 'what an odd/scary/creepy man' or ' the trail ends here theres nowhere to go' or similar, works.

BG turns back on the bridge as suggested, LG films him coming back towards them, BG pulls a weapon.....orders 'Down the hill...'.



The direction he appears could be either from the private land where the track originally continued , or as seems logical , if you can go 'Down the Hill' you could also come 'Up the Hill'?

Also, could explain the tonal change being closer together in a short timeframe, as the snap decision is made on the turn. Tone and intent changed quickly

Moo and following on from quoted post.

Eta SP

 

[Jamie737]

This would also make sense of if the girls were already recording and just 'talking about things that teenage girls talk about ' (paraphrase) and BG appears from the direction you suggest, the 'Guys' as a greeting works as BG passes the girls, also the edit or scrambling of girls maybe saying 'what an odd/scary/creepy man' or ' the trail ends here theres nowhere to go' or similar, works.

BG turns back on the bridge as suggested, LG films him coming back towards them, BG pulls a weapon.....orders 'Down the hill...'.



The direction he appears could be either from the private land where the track originally continued , or as seems logical , if you can go 'Down the Hill' you could also come 'Up the Hill'?

Also, could explain the tonal change being closer together in a short timeframe, as the snap decision is made on the turn. Tone and intent changed quickly

Moo and fooling on from quoted post.

I think we’re on to something here. It also accounts for LE’s dismissal of YouTube reconstructions.

 

[Cutiekitty]

There is a cell tower actually at the trails. There was an experiment done on the bridge where someone sent a snapchat where Libby took Abby's picture, to test if it would immediately be sent through and verify that the timestamp of her snap was accurate and wasn't delayed due to weak signal.
It went through immediately.

I don't know if he had the same provider as she did. Example: she had tmobile, experiment phone had verizon.
Or if different providers would even make a difference in signal like it did at one time.

There are actually quite a few towers that cover Delphi. I believe there are 7 and 2 are FCC registered, the others are not (I looked at this a while back so don’t remember exactly). There is one that looks like it’s actually on RL’s property - very close to the entire area in question. I recall seeing another one near the property at the end of the bridge. Pretty decent coverage for the trails.

 

[puppyraiser]

For all we know, he could have said "guys, the ******** (thing we can't discuss) is down the hill" The audio doesn't sound threatening, demanding, exasperated or angry IMO and appears to have something removed between "guys" and "down the hill".
I believe the thinking that he came towards them and then turned back makes the most sense. If he crossed the entire bridge by walking behind them, I think he would have been seen in the picture of Abby or the picture of the bridge Libby took. He's not visible in either one.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Are others able to see this banter at the time? Could this have been done in retaliation towards one of the two bantering?
Things that make me go hmmmm.

I wondered the same thing.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is just a stupid side thought, but what if the family, or LE, is hoping to lure BG out by the public broadcasts? LE did say they thought he was watching the PC, wanting to know what they know. If somebody says something only BG would know... Yeah, probably a stupid thought.

I don’t think it’s a stupid thought at all. LE utilizes all sorts of psychological strategies to crime solve, most which we usually never hear about. Family members are sometimes scripted by LE when making public comments. For what specific reason flies right over the heads of the general public. JMO

 

[puppyraiser]

Adding to my previous post... he could have been at the trail head, heard the girls talking about their plans to cross the bridge and then he high tailed it across and waited on the south side until he saw/heard them.

 

[HockeyMom330]

I agree, I don't think the girls would voluntarily cross the creek, but if BG was hanging around on the bridge, watching them from up there, I could see them feeling they had no choice but the cross.

And poking holes in my own theory, I don't understand why BG crossed the bridge to begin with, if he planned to approach the girls, only not to engage them on the south end and recross. I think in my mind, even though he was only 60 feet away during the video, if the girls headed into the woods immediately after the video, why not follow them? Maybe he did? Or maybe he decided the south end was too exposed for someone coming off the trail and onto the bridge on the other side, so he decided to go back, check for people, then cut them off. It bothers me a lot that as long as he was on the bridge, the girls were basically cornered.

BBM

Assuming BG first spotted the girls near their drop off point, he may have followed them from quite a distance down the path towards the bridge, assuming that they would not cross (this assumption is based on the fact it is illegal to be on the bridge and they girls were so young). They may or may not have even noticed him. He might have been planning to ambush them in the woods on the North side, but when the girls did go across the bridge they foiled his plans, at least for the moment. He could have hid and waited for the girls to get at least halfway across the bridge before he got on the bridge himself, thus essentially trapping them. He proabably crossed to make sure that the girls were not meeting anybody at the SE end and/or that there weren't any potential witnesses coming from that direction. He may also have been checking them out to make certain in his mind that they would be 'good' victims. Somehow I think he knew/assumed that the girls needed to get back to the other side of the bridge, so he assumed they would make their way back either across or through the woods. So he crossed back and waited to intercept them on the North side as he had originally planned.

 

[155etta]

Are we allowed to speculate on suspects who are currently in custody for another crime if they closely resemble the sketches released by LE?

 

[TL4S]

BBM

Assuming BG first spotted the girls near their drop off point, he may have followed them from quite a distance down the path towards the bridge, assuming that they would not cross (this assumption is based on the fact it is illegal to be on the bridge and they girls were so young). They may or may not have even noticed him. He might have been planning to ambush them in the woods on the North side, but when the girls did go across the bridge they foiled his plans, at least for the moment. He could have hid and waited for the girls to get at least halfway across the bridge before he got on the bridge himself, thus essentially trapping them. He proabably crossed to make sure that the girls were not meeting anybody at the SE end and/or that there weren't any potential witnesses coming from that direction. He may also have been checking them out to make certain in his mind that they would be 'good' victims. Somehow I think he knew/assumed that the girls needed to get back to the other side of the bridge, so he assumed they would make their way back either across or through the woods. So he crossed back and waited to intercept them on the North side as he had originally planned.

Yes, also good possibilities. I have always kind of assumed he saw the girls get dropped off at the trail, but I guess it's also possible he himself only first saw them on the bridge and something about them flipped his switch? Not likely?

And yes, I think he figured they needed to go back, especially since there was nowhere to go after the bridge. JMO