Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
tresir2012 said:
No, wordpress is not MSM. I have found this link -

See somebody walking near Delphi? Call police

"If you saw a hitchhiker or somebody walking along roads in Delphi last week, the police would like to talk to you. You could help find who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German..."

(There are also a lot more links at the bottom of the article.)
Click to expand...
Seriously, in my wishful thinking, I would LOVE to find out BG's car keys fell out of his pocket during his struggle with the girls. He was parked at the CPS lot, so had to walk or hitchhike home to get spare keys and a ride. He was back at his car before 5pm, where a witness saw him getting dropped off, all the while LE assumed he was long gone. Yeah...wishful thinking.
 
TL4S said:
I'm not sure if it's in that video or another one where he mentions that the cemetery exit witness was a woman. Maybe the one where he's interviewing BP?
Click to expand...
I just watched/read and all I saw him say was "the witness" so it must have been on another video. That was so much easier, reading it instead of listening. His speaking style can be very disjointed to the ear, better to read him.
 
And here's the duffle bag MSM link.


Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.
 
soylattesandsleuthing said:
Can someone please point me in the direction of a very thorough and detailed timeline of the case? Preferably one up to the present?
Click to expand...

Here is the timeline I made with added links to back everything up:

TIMELINE for Monday, February 13, 2017
The Day the Girls Went Missing

ALL info is based on Libby's family's own words.

10:00
Libby and Abby awakened at Libby's house. Derrick (Libby's father) made them pancakes.


1:00
Kelsie, Libby's sister, arrive at Becky and Mike Patty's house, were also Libby live. Kelsie says that she was going to a friend's house before going to work. Libby hear her and ask if she can go to the bridge for a while since it was so warm.
1:38
Libby and Abby were dropped off by Kelsie (Libby's sister) to go hiking near Monon High Bridge , according to family.


2:07
Libby took a snapchat pic of Abby on the bridge, this was the last time anyone heard from the girls.
2:30
Libby take video of Bridgeman
2:49
CME (female witness) walked the bridge, saw a man before that and a couple under the bridge, did not see or hear the girls or the possible suspect at the bridgearea.
2:52
"Flannel Shirt Man" (older man mid to late 70's, a witness) sees a man ( possibly the suspect) leave the area just few meters north of the meeting point.


3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
Becky tell Mike that they will go to the bridge and look for the girls.
Mike Patty says he will leave work at once and come to the Bridge and look for Libby and Abby.
4:??
Tara German (Libby's aunt) leave Becky's house 10minuts before Becky and when Tara
got to the meeting point she got into Derrick's car with Derrick.
4;??
As Becky leave her house Cody Patty (Mike Patty's son) come pulling in. He has just gotten out of work, Becky told him what was going on and Cody got in the car with Becky, and they headed to the meeting point.
When they arrived at the meeting point there was a lot of cars there also cars that did not belong to the family says Becky.
Becky call AT&T, bc Libby had reset her phone the week before, and Becky asked if they could ping Libby's phone but they said they could not do it.
4:18
Becky calls husband Mike Patty again
4-5:00
Mike Patty says that they, as a family, had searched the area, couldn't find anything.


5:15
Becky says "at this time Mike come walking up, he had been searching too" (at the meeting point) "when Mike got there he pulled in to Mr. Mirrore's driveway because there was no place to park due to so many cars".
Mike Patty call a friend who is a police officer.
5:15
Becky, after a long time talking to AT&T, give up talking to them because they could not help.
5:20
Mike Patty call the police


This are my sources :

Gray Hughes interview with Becky and Mike Patty


Gray Hughes: Derrick's Path and more Libby and Abby Delphi Indiana


Dr Phil interview with Libby's family

And 4 pages of typed interview with
Becky Patty (Libby's grandmother) and Tara German (Libby's aunt)
 
tresir2012 said:
And here's the duffle bag MSM link.


Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.
Click to expand...
YES! This is one of the articles that mentions a possible hitchhiker. They came out in the first week after the murders and, then, no more on it. No word from LE if they found the person, it was a bogus tip or what. Just nothing more was said about it in the media or by LE.
 
Theforeigner said:
Here is the timeline I made with added links to back everything up:

TIMELINE for Monday, February 13, 2017
The Day the Girls Went Missing

ALL info is based on Libby's family's own words.

10:00
Libby and Abby awakened at Libby's house. Derrick (Libby's father) made them pancakes.


1:00
Kelsie, Libby's sister, arrive at Becky and Mike Patty's house, were also Libby live. Kelsie says that she was going to a friend's house before going to work. Libby hear her and ask if she can go to the bridge for a while since it was so warm.
1:38
Libby and Abby were dropped off by Kelsie (Libby's sister) to go hiking near Monon High Bridge , according to family.


2:07
Libby took a snapchat pic of Abby on the bridge, this was the last time anyone heard from the girls.
2:30
Libby take video of Bridgeman
2:49
CME (female witness) walked the bridge, saw a man before that and a couple under the bridge, did not see or hear the girls or the possible suspect at the bridgearea.
2:52
"Flannel Shirt Man" (older man mid to late 70's, a witness) sees a man ( possibly the suspect) leave the area just few meters north of the meeting point.


3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
Becky tell Mike that they will go to the bridge and look for the girls.
Mike Patty says he will leave work at once and come to the Bridge and look for Libby and Abby.
4:??
Tara German (Libby's aunt) leave Becky's house 10minuts before Becky and when Tara
got to the meeting point she got into Derrick's car with Derrick.
4;??
As Becky leave her house Cody Patty (Mike Patty's son) come pulling in. He has just gotten out of work, Becky told him what was going on and Cody got in the car with Becky, and they headed to the meeting point.
When they arrived at the meeting point there was a lot of cars there also cars that did not belong to the family says Becky.
Becky call AT&T, bc Libby had reset her phone the week before, and Becky asked if they could ping Libby's phone but they said they could not do it.
4:18
Becky calls husband Mike Patty again
4-5:00
Mike Patty says that they, as a family, had searched the area, couldn't find anything.


5:15
Becky says "at this time Mike come walking up, he had been searching too" (at the meeting point) "when Mike got there he pulled in to Mr. Mirrore's driveway because there was no place to park due to so many cars".
Mike Patty call a friend who is a police officer.
5:15
Becky, after a long time talking to AT&T, give up talking to them because they could not help.
5:20
Mike Patty call the police


This are my sources :

Gray Hughes interview with Becky and Mike Patty


Gray Hughes: Derrick's Path and more Libby and Abby Delphi Indiana


Dr Phil interview with Libby's family

And 4 pages of typed interview with
Becky Patty (Libby's grandmother) and Tara German (Libby's aunt)
Click to expand...
When FSG says he sees man at 2:52 a few meters north of the meetup spot, where is that?
 
HEY YOU! said:
Original sketch of BG is BG as is new sketch. I was just going through the case and wondering if one of the early witnesses came forward to say they saw BG on the Freedom Bridge was ACTUALLY BG misleading LE by providing 'help' with the first sketch and drawing attention away from himself. Also I believe he is a local that was spotted by at least one person who knew him and had to make himself less of a target. Who knows, if this is the case then he lied about BG (himself in reality) being on Freedom Bridge as well to throw investigators off. Also, I believe in the video BG is 'disguised' as much as he was wearing a hat, huge coat, possible scarf and who knows if anything else. Clearly he covered himself up so as not to be recognized. I believe that he put his disguise items (large coat, scarf, hat etc) in either a backpack or hidden to get later. At that point, a witness saw him undisguised and gave info for the new sketch which was BG without his disguise and is the current sketch.

And as for why LE seems to know who it is but has not arrested him, maybe his car broke down (CPS building?) and he had to call his dad (brother or friend) who now knows the truth but has covered for him. And the press conference was maybe an attempt to get BG to come forward without involving anyone else. Perhaps the family is well known and loved. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I'm with you on this. It makes perfect sense how it could have happened. Wonder if a backpack was under the baggy jacket to store the outer clothes. I think there's still a lot of information out there but people don't think it's relevant. Putting forward scenarios like this is good in that it makes you rethink your views.
 
Blue Amethyst said:
What kind of credentials does he have? He seems to pop up in different cases. MOO
Click to expand...

He is a YouTuber who seems to be good with maps and videos. Because of his increasing popularity and his following of the case, he has also scored several interviews with key players. I take everything he says with a box of salt.
 
Theforeigner said:
Here is the timeline I made with added links to back everything up:

TIMELINE for Monday, February 13, 2017
The Day the Girls Went Missing

ALL info is based on Libby's family's own words.

10:00
Libby and Abby awakened at Libby's house. Derrick (Libby's father) made them pancakes.


1:00
Kelsie, Libby's sister, arrive at Becky and Mike Patty's house, were also Libby live. Kelsie says that she was going to a friend's house before going to work. Libby hear her and ask if she can go to the bridge for a while since it was so warm.
1:38
Libby and Abby were dropped off by Kelsie (Libby's sister) to go hiking near Monon High Bridge , according to family.


2:07
Libby took a snapchat pic of Abby on the bridge, this was the last time anyone heard from the girls.
2:30
Libby take video of Bridgeman
2:49
CME (female witness) walked the bridge, saw a man before that and a couple under the bridge, did not see or hear the girls or the possible suspect at the bridgearea.
2:52
"Flannel Shirt Man" (older man mid to late 70's, a witness) sees a man ( possibly the suspect) leave the area just few meters north of the meeting point.


3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
Becky tell Mike that they will go to the bridge and look for the girls.
Mike Patty says he will leave work at once and come to the Bridge and look for Libby and Abby.
4:??
Tara German (Libby's aunt) leave Becky's house 10minuts before Becky and when Tara
got to the meeting point she got into Derrick's car with Derrick.
4;??
As Becky leave her house Cody Patty (Mike Patty's son) come pulling in. He has just gotten out of work, Becky told him what was going on and Cody got in the car with Becky, and they headed to the meeting point.
When they arrived at the meeting point there was a lot of cars there also cars that did not belong to the family says Becky.
Becky call AT&T, bc Libby had reset her phone the week before, and Becky asked if they could ping Libby's phone but they said they could not do it.
4:18
Becky calls husband Mike Patty again
4-5:00
Mike Patty says that they, as a family, had searched the area, couldn't find anything.


5:15
Becky says "at this time Mike come walking up, he had been searching too" (at the meeting point) "when Mike got there he pulled in to Mr. Mirrore's driveway because there was no place to park due to so many cars".
Mike Patty call a friend who is a police officer.
5:15
Becky, after a long time talking to AT&T, give up talking to them because they could not help.
5:20
Mike Patty call the police


This are my sources :

Gray Hughes interview with Becky and Mike Patty


Gray Hughes: Derrick's Path and more Libby and Abby Delphi Indiana


Dr Phil interview with Libby's family

And 4 pages of typed interview with
Becky Patty (Libby's grandmother) and Tara German (Libby's aunt)
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting it in this new thread.
 
Thelastleg said:
Thank you, I'm with you on this. It makes perfect sense how it could have happened. Wonder if a backpack was under the baggy jacket to store the outer clothes. I think there's still a lot of information out there but people don't think it's relevant. Putting forward scenarios like this is good in that it makes you rethink your views.
Click to expand...
I don’t think the police have any clue who BG is... think about it, 2 years since 2 young girls were murdered.. no arrests= no clue by police
 
TL4S said:
I'm not sure if it's in that video or another one where he mentions that the cemetery exit witness was a woman. Maybe the one where he's interviewing BP?
Click to expand...

Never heard of that witness except for GH.
scruffydog said:
I don’t think the police have any clue who BG is... think about it, 2 years since 2 young girls were murdered.. no arrests= no clue by police
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I think it means no DNA. So barring a confession or new evidence they are stuck.
 
scruffydog said:
I don’t think the police have any clue who BG is... think about it, 2 years since 2 young girls were murdered.. no arrests= no clue by police
Click to expand...

I don't think they do either. There are many cases out there that remain officially "unsolved", but it's clear to the community and LE who was responsible. They just haven't gatheted enough evidence to arrest. The Lewis Clark murders, for instance. I don't think there's any doubt to LE and the public. Or, if they don't know for sure, they're pretty sure that they know who was at least involved-such as in the Kyron Horman case or Katelynn Akens' disappearance. Or, in my own area, Loretta Willoughby (teen murdered and beheaded on a walking trail) and Brookelyn Farthing (teen disappeared after leaving a party with an older guy). Or even Savannah Spurlock. The community had 1 or 2 names they were throwing around and pretty much everyone agreed. The only real mysteries were when the bodies would be found or who would turn state's evidence first.

That is not the case in this crime. There is no big, open secret as to who BG is. There are approximately 15-20 names being tossed around at any given time and a new one pops up every day. Here on WS I've heard a dozen different theories all from members who are absolutely convinced they are "right." Even in Delphi, West Lafayette, and Ligansport (all towns I spend time in/know people in), there is no concensus. Recently up there for a funeral and half the room thought BG was a stranger and the other half had "suspects" who ranged from 18-55. IMO LE has a good idea of profile, but they're not closing in on anyone in particular.
 
JnRyan said:
v

Even though I strongly discount this witness sighting on the road in front of the cemetery, I believe there is a good possibility the killer went in that general direction after committing the murders. Again, an assumption here is this killer was familiar with the area. More than likely, though, I believe this killer stayed inside the treeline parallel to the road rather than going out through the cemetery. His pants are wet and this might be noticeable. There are no leaves on the trees or shrubs so visibility through the trees is good. He can minimize his chances of being sighted by staying off the road as long as possible.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
JnRyan said:
I only saw one statement and it was supposedly from LE about a possible hitchhiker on the Hoosier Hwy. And now that I think about it, why would the killer be on the Hoosier Hwy? In one of my scenarios, he takes the wrong trail and ends up at the Freedom Bridge (this assumes the sighting around 3:00 is the killer), goes to the parking lot and crosses the Hoosier Hwy to the CPS. What if this was misquoted by media and they meant the Rt 300? (Or LE purposely gave the wrong road in order to obtain a valid witness.) GH states in his video that a witness saw someone in the area of the cemetery, but I don't remember anything like that unless it was someone not reported the media or validated by LE. In fact, I believe GH got it from a phone call about what someone read on Facebook.

Even though I strongly discount this witness sighting on the road in front of the cemetery, I believe there is a good possibility the killer went in that general direction after committing the murders. Again, an assumption here is this killer was familiar with the area. More than likely, though, I believe this killer stayed inside the treeline parallel to the road rather than going out through the cemetery. His pants are wet and this might be noticeable. There are no leaves on the trees or shrubs so visibility through the trees is good. He can minimize his chances of being sighted by staying off the road as long as possible.

If my scenario above is correct, could this be the reason for the change of direction by LE? IOW, the sightings on the trail and Freedom Bridge are not the killer. Instead it may be a person seen going to his vehicle at the CPS building and he was NOT seen on the trail AFTER the murders. Again, I'm just tossing out some random thoughts here.
Click to expand...

Yes, agree.
If this was a spur the moment crime though still premeditated as that designation only takes the thought " I can get away with this" or similar.
But still, not a fully developed before plan, then he might have to get back to his car. Which MOO a local would have been done without walking straight down the trail.
 
HEY YOU! said:
No, I don't think he gave a fake name. I think he came forward as a witness as he was seen leaving the crime scene in order to not be listed as a perp. Maybe he saw that video the night it was released and figured he can come forward to say he saw that guy in the video and 'help' with the description to throw everyone off his trail. Making a sketch look way different than himself, saying definitely not blue eyes, reddish brown hair. If he ran into people who knew him on the trail, he knew he had to cover his tracks in some way. Also thinking that maybe he was trying to get out unnoticed to get to the car but there were too many others out that day to go unnoticed. Again, just trying to tie that last press conference into the whole picture.
Click to expand...
Your theory is growing on me, and it would mean LE now know who BG is right? Because they have changed their strategy and issued the NBG sketch, which is him.

It was your speculation that a witness who was actually BG could have been giving a false description of old BG. Just one point, however, is that OBG sketch didn't come out till July, 5 months after the murders. It could have misled LE and that is why they didn't release the NBG or OBG sketch initially. This could work if the witness saw the BG still and thought, "whoa that pic makes me look like an old man" and then gave a witness description of an old man, while he actually looked like NBG. He may have had influence like a volunteer or LE perhaps, so they believed him and disbelieved the NBG witness. I think it is a clever theory and could have some truth in it. Now LE have wised up and must know him.
MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 204 more.
Total: 2,006 (members: 205, guests: 1,801)

Online statistics

Members online
205
Guests online
1,801
Total visitors
2,006
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
600,360
Messages
18,107,165
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top