Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[tresir2012]

Never heard of that witness except for GH.


Unfortunately I think it means no DNA. So barring a confession or new evidence they are stuck.

I always want to believe GH because he is close to family who are close to LE so they will get snippets that noone else does. Hence I believe this cemetery sighting. It could even be a passing motorist who saw him and thought he was a hitchhiker.

 

[Boxer]

I always want to believe GH because he is close to family who are close to LE so they will get snippets that noone else does. Hence I believe this cemetery sighting. It could even be a passing motorist who saw him and thought he was a hitchhiker.

IIRC that witness GH said saw BG exit the cemetery said they saw him from from a building window.

 

[pppsuedio]

I think is a viable possible scenario. The only part I have a hard time reconciling is that it’s not LEs job (at least to my understanding), to wrap the case up tightly.... isn’t that done in court? I thought LE just had to have “reasonable cause” for an arrest, and surely this and the other stuff they would have would be enough for that?

Because in America everyone has a legal right to a speedy trial and because murder cases are double jeopardy cases, so you cannot try the same person again for that crime if they are found not guilty the first time, arrests tend not to happen in most murder cases until prosecution feel they and the police already have built basically a strong enough case to get a conviction. Not the rule 100% of the time I am sure there are hasty arrests that happen, but from what I have seen the right to a speedy trial and double jeopardy seem to be important factors in deciding whether or not to arrest people on a charge of murder in the US hope that helps clear things up in your mind.

 

[mtnlites]

Because in America everyone has a legal right to a speedy trial and because murder cases are double jeopardy cases, so you cannot try the same person again for that crime if they are found not guilty the first time, arrests tend not to happen in most murder cases until prosecution feel they and the police already have built basically a strong enough case to get a conviction. Not the rule 100% of the time I am sure there are hasty arrests that happen, but from what I have seen the right to a speedy trial and double jeopardy seem to be important factors in deciding whether or not to arrest people on a charge of murder in the US hope that helps clear things up in your mind.

I still don't buy that LE hasn't arrested BG because they are "building a case." LE doesn't build a case-they collect evidence and protect the public. The DA builds the case. Double jeporady applies after a trial, not before. A person can most definitely be arrested more than once for the same crime as long as there is probable cause. They can find all kinds of reasons to arrest someone if they suspect them and want to turn on the heat: obstructing justice, lying to LE, or even some non-murder related issue if it means they get more time with the POI. In cases where it's an open secret about who did it, LE has held back because the evidence is too circumstantial to sometimes even generate a warrant. Still, cases are won on circumstantial evidence all the time. None of us agree on whether LE have DNA in this case, but since they've ruled people out, including at least 3 false confessions according to the last thread, then it stands to reason that at least some kind of physical evidence exists. Presenting 2 pieces of evidence to a judge would normally get you a warrant if you're looking at a POI, but you don't need a warrant if LE can catch them in illegal activity-and if they think they know who did this then it's a pretty good bet they have a 24/7 detail on him. When LE has someone in mind, in my experience, they lay on the pressure. Friends and family are interviewed, vehicles and homes are searched, etc. Word gets out and spreads. Heck, in the Lewis Clark case that guy was brought in 6 times for interrogation. Nothing like that has leaked about this case. We couldn't discuss it even if it had, but it hasn't. LE is still asking the public to identify BG. "Building a case" is important, but LE doesn't stop looking for evidence just because they've made an arrest. The investigation continues until it is closed. The DA uses that evidence to build their case. If they have enough evidence and probable cause to convince themselves that it's POI A, and to rule others out, then it should be enough for an arrest warrant. Public safety is a concern here. If they're just operating on a hunch, however, and there is no forensic evidence to tie POI A to the crime then I'd be very nervous about any arrest that was made. Tunnel vision can be frightening.

 

[Torch Carrier]

IIRC that witness GH said saw BG exit the cemetery said they saw him from from a building window.

IIRC wasn't there a lady who saw BG (or saw a suspicious person round time of murders) out her window and became so frightened that she has since moved? She lived nearby to RL, I had thought, when I read it but, .. sorry, I have no link. Does anyone else remember this?

 

[Torch Carrier]

LE says they were onto something early on. Early on, they searched RL's place. I do NOT think RL is BG, but perhaps RL had a visitor or someone was there while RL was out that day?

 

[Torch Carrier]

This case is driving me INSANE! Some days I feel they are close (especially after the 4/22 PC, I then felt an arrest was imminent) but other times after reading posts from those who feel they've got nothing, I begin to doubt and become discouraged.

 

[Torch Carrier]

So, IF BG was a witness and IF said witness lied in describing OBG to throw LE off, wouldn't LE be hot on this guy's trail now?

Does anyone think LE were re-interviewing BG around July of 2017 at which time BG felt they were on to him so said "Okay, I saw this guy ... was too scared to provide any info back then, but ...here's what he looked ... here's where I saw him..." (resulting in OBG sketch). This would explain the 5 month time lapse. Still, IF this happened and now LE has wised up to him, they should know who BG (or his partner in crime, if there is one) IS, right?

Could an alibi really be so compelling or so confounding as to be preventing an arrest?

Or are they still waiting on this guy'a DNA perhaps submitted fairly recently?

 

[Boxer]

LE says they were onto something early on. Early on, they searched RL's place. I do NOT think RL is BG, but perhaps RL had a visitor or someone was there while RL was out that day?

Indiana Packers
Bicycle Bridge Road
RL farm
All local SOs
Local train stoppage to search tracks

Request to the public:
for duffel/backpack sightings
A hitchhiker
now a parked car and driver at CPS

 

[Boxer]

So, IF BG was a witness and IF said witness lied in describing OBG to throw LE off, wouldn't LE be hot on this guy's trail now?

Does anyone think LE were re-interviewing BG around July of 2017 at which time BG felt they were on to him so said "Okay, I saw this guy ... was too scared to provide any info back then, but ...here's what he looked ... here's where I saw him..." (resulting in OBG sketch). This would explain the 5 month time lapse. Still, IF this happened and now LE has wised up to him, they should know who BG (or his partner in crime, if there is one) IS, right?

Could an alibi really be so compelling or so confounding as to be preventing an arrest?

Or are they still waiting on this guy'a DNA perhaps submitted fairly recently?

DNA doesn't take long anymore.
Sorting thousands of leaves for bio samples to test and testing them takes a long time.

 

[Boxer]

IIRC wasn't there a lady who saw BG (or saw a suspicious person round time of murders) out her window and became so frightened that she has since moved? She lived nearby to RL, I had thought, when I read it but, .. sorry, I have no link. Does anyone else remember this?

IIRC it was GH.

 

[PaulaDC]

I think the two events have been mixed up. He was working nearby (at his pest control job) on the day of the murders. Days later he was on FB blowing the cows horn and was interviewed then. Someone joked he was working blowing the cow's horn.

Rams horn usually.

 

[somequestions]

Sadly I do not think investigators are any closer to solving this case than they were in February 2017. I do not think they know who Liberty German took video of on the Monon High Bridge.

I think the strategy was first to put the video still on 3000 billboards across the country hoping that someone would notice the bridge guy suspect and phone it in. When that did not happen they moved towards witness sketches to give more detail and hope that would produce a solid lead/tip on who this person is. Then finally they turned to another possible witness sketch based on a car located in the area that may have been the vehicle the bridge guy walked back to.

An investigator in a another case gave his opinion about press conferences. He said that when police are having press conferences that is usually a bad sign. It means they are searching for help from the public. When police are on to something they usually just do their job and the only press conference is when an arrest is made.

It could be tomorrow that they receive a tip or some physical evidence links this case with another case and that produces the suspect. Or maybe the suspect's family member uploads DNA that ties him to this case. But as of right now, after almost 2 and a half years, this case feels like it has gotten kind of quiet, and the only thing left to do is wait.

 

[sunshineray]

And here's the duffle bag MSM link.


Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.

Ok, Logansport mentioned by LE is not nearby Frankfort, mentioned in what I was reading. Looks like it's in a different direction and on a different highway. Thanks for finding this. So witness probably was not DG who you said was coming to the Delphi trails from the Frankfort area.

 

[Falling Down]

This case is driving me INSANE! Some days I feel they are close (especially after the 4/22 PC, I then felt an arrest was imminent) but other times after reading posts from those who feel they've got nothing, I begin to doubt and become discouraged.

Just a hunch on my part, but for some time now I've thought that LE have no idea who carried out this set of crimes. Therefore, there is a higher likelihood of someone contacting them about BG and thus an arrest, vs. LE being able to surveil and arrest a suspect. My hunch isn't a positive one, I know, but 2.5 years later and no arrest makes me think they don't have a clue who did it.

JMO

-FD

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Sadly I do not think investigators are any closer to solving this case than they were in February 2017. I do not think they know who Liberty German took video of on the Monon High Bridge.

I think the strategy was first to put the video still on 3000 billboards across the country hoping that someone would notice the bridge guy suspect and phone it in. When that did not happen they moved towards witness sketches to give more detail and hope that would produce a solid lead/tip on who this person is. Then finally they turned to another possible witness sketch based on a car located in the area that may have been the vehicle the bridge guy walked back to.

An investigator in a another case gave his opinion about press conferences. He said that when police are having press conferences that is usually a bad sign. It means they are searching for help from the public. When police are on to something they usually just do their job and the only press conference is when an arrest is made.

It could be tomorrow that they receive a tip or some physical evidence links this case with another case and that produces the suspect. Or maybe the suspect's family member uploads DNA that ties him to this case. But as of right now, after almost 2 and a half years, this case feels like it has gotten kind of quiet, and the only thing left to do is wait.

I agree, sadly. They wouldn’t be asking for public help if they had a suspect

 

[moonlessnight]

I do think that the real BG gave false info about fake BG to throw the investigation off. The question is, if the real BG was on the trails and seen by others, and gave LE false info about what he saw on the trail, but has a verified alibi that he was someplace not near the trails, how does LE handle that discrepancy?

Your theory is growing on me, and it would mean LE now know who BG is right? Because they have changed their strategy and issued the NBG sketch, which is him.

It was your speculation that a witness who was actually BG could have been giving a false description of old BG. Just one point, however, is that OBG sketch didn't come out till July, 5 months after the murders. It could have misled LE and that is why they didn't release the NBG or OBG sketch initially. This could work if the witness saw the BG still and thought, "whoa that pic makes me look like an old man" and then gave a witness description of an old man, while he actually looked like NBG. He may have had influence like a volunteer or LE perhaps, so they believed him and disbelieved the NBG witness. I think it is a clever theory and could have some truth in it. Now LE have wised up and must know him.
MOO

 

[moonlessnight]

I seriously disagree. The new sketch is identical to someone known to LE and the family, and I think that piece of info - the connection to the family - is why there has been no arrest yet.

I agree, sadly. They wouldn’t be asking for public help if they had a suspect

 

[moonlessnight]

that is an incredibly short time for this crime - like, ten minutes. almost seems like a hit.

unless someone else was down the hill, or elsewhere. BG could have herded the girls somewhere into someone else's custody and bailed out fast.

According to the old billboards the video of BG was @230. I have seen it said both 235 and 239 as exact times. Now keep in mind the video may be from 235 and "dth" at 239. So I am guessing leaving the crime scene via the woods by 245 in order for CME to have not seen him at 247. He either was high enough in the tree line she couldn't see him or past her POV.
I can only see all of that happening so fast is if the girls did try running and crossed on their own. He certainly did not time too much more than a frenzied murderous act. No time to pose and cleanup as many have thought may be the case.

 

[moonlessnight]

LE knows what time they happened. the witness states a time s/he saw something and LE knows it was 30-40 min after the murders.

Interesting. How does this witness know it was 30-40 minutes after the killings when we don't even know what time the killings took place?