Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[margarita25]

BBM:

rsbm
But since I don’t think Mr Blue Jacket had anything to do with the murders

I personally have zero doubt that the man on the bridge in the blue jacket is Abby’s and Libby’s killer, but I’m certainly interested in hearing your theory.

May I please ask why your opinion on the identity of the suspect is different from the FBI’s? I’m very curious, especially since you are a verified Law Enforcement Detective.


Source:
“Investigators have distributed a photo (shown above) of a person observed on the Delphi Historic Trail. The photo appears to depict a White male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie. During the course of the investigation, evidence has led investigators to believe the aforementioned person is suspected of being involved in the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.”

LIBERTY GERMAN — FBI
ABIGAIL WILLIAMS — FBI

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Yes we can link to MSM Twitter. I wonder how she knew that though. Is she just guessing like we do?

Thats the right question to ask. Has anyone asked her? I can try lol.

Im guessing, byt my guess is good reporting. She likely kept asking until she go someone to answer. She seems to be relating what LE told her. Doesnt appear to be any creative liberty taken, but u are right to be suspect.

 

[Grateful4goose]

so IF the times are correct, that means they waited on that end of the bridge for over 20 minutes - from 2:07 in the middle of the bridge to 2:30 when BG is crossing. That tells me they were meeting up with someone. It also tells me they were not worried about anything at 2:07, or probably until 2:25 or so when BG started crossing the bridge.

GH verified it takes 5 min minimum and 10 min walking very slowly to cross the bridge.

That also means BG wasn't following them from a bend in the trail or a T between trails - he would have caught up with them faster if he had been.

My conclusion is that BG planned to meet them at the end of the bridge at 2:30. They thought they were meeting someone else.

My remaining question is, did they know him. I agree they would have said his name if they knew him, unless they were unable to make any sounds due to shock, terror, having their mouths covered, or being incapacitated.

MOO

I think you might be right, however, one other possibility is: the girls were not planning to meet someone, but rather planned to cross the bridge and simply turnaround and go back. When they noticed BG coming slowly across the bridge, or standing at the other end at some point while they were on the bridge; they felt uncomfortable crossing back and moving toward him. Time passed because they were moving slowly to the end of the bridge, while they thought about what to do.... knowing they were nearing the end of the trail and had to go back in the other direction.

 

[stg]

Has anyone watched this latest Gray Hughes about the case and if so can you post a summary? Has he got some new info or not?

He purchased a satellite photo of the area taken about 35 minutes before the girls got dropped off at the bridge trail on 2/13/17. I do not have time to watch any more this morning, so I don’t know if it shows the car LE is asking about or what. Hopefully someone else can chime in. I am just too busy to watch his long videos. lol

 

[distracted]

so IF the times are correct, that means they waited on that end of the bridge for over 20 minutes - from 2:07 in the middle of the bridge to 2:30 when BG is crossing. That tells me they were meeting up with someone. It also tells me they were not worried about anything at 2:07, or probably until 2:25 or so when BG started crossing the bridge.

GH verified it takes 5 min minimum and 10 min walking very slowly to cross the bridge.

That also means BG wasn't following them from a bend in the trail or a T between trails - he would have caught up with them faster if he had been.

My conclusion is that BG planned to meet them at the end of the bridge at 2:30. They thought they were meeting someone else.

My remaining question is, did they know him. I agree they would have said his name if they knew him, unless they were unable to make any sounds due to shock, terror, having their mouths covered, or being incapacitated.

MOO

I also think they were meeting someone and that they were passing the time while waiting for this person by taking photos like girls their age do.

And then BG shows up, unexpectedly, while the phone is still out and Libby records him because he is not who they expected.

He could have lured them down the hill by asking if they were looking for *fillintheblank* and then telling them *fillintheblank* was down the hill. That would explain why they would go down the hill without a fight.

 

[TL4S]

He purchased a satellite photo of the area taken about 35 minutes before the girls got dropped off at the bridge trail on 2/13/17. I do not have time to watch any more this morning, so I don’t know if it shows the car LE is asking about or what. Hopefully someone else can chime in. I am just too busy to watch his long videos. lol

I watched the first half. Basically, yes, GH purchased a satellite image from Feb. 13, 2017 in hopes it might be from that afternoon. It turned out to be from 12:58pm, but unfortunately, it isn't high enough quality to see vehicles or similar details. He warns that if any other youtubers do zoom in and try to show something there, it isn't accurate because the quality will be extremely poor. Kind of like when people zoom way in on BG's face to try to make out details that are, in reality, too pixelated to make out.

As he said, it's value is in its poignancy. You can see Libby's house, and he points out that the girls are probably inside there getting ready to go.

 

[MingyMoo]

He purchased a satellite photo of the area taken about 35 minutes before the girls got dropped off at the bridge trail on 2/13/17. I do not have time to watch any more this morning, so I don’t know if it shows the car LE is asking about or what. Hopefully someone else can chime in. I am just too busy to watch his long videos. lol

I did and no it doesn't however the topography is quite interesting. The satellite image itself covers a very large area and taken at 12:58 hrs pm 13/02/17 suffice to say BG would be there somewhere. No cars can be seen and the satellite is apparently zoomed in at 100%

Hope that helps
MM

 

[TL4S]

I’m starting to go back to my original thought.

All of those that I thought could be BG are in custody or dead with all having DNA samples submitted for analysis by now. The only way they still could be considered to be BG is if LE was not able to isolate a decent DNA sample at the crime scene or from the victims.

Going back to serial killer or serial killer in the making!

Sure gets quite around her on Friday evenings....oh boy it’s Friday the 13th too!

I'm with you. I'm finding my thoughts going back to original ones! I'm also trying to figure out theories I might feel comfortable eliminating, and why. Of course, I'd never close the door entirely on anything until he's caught.

 

[TL4S]

I did and no it doesn't however the topography is quite interesting. The satellite image itself covers a very large area and taken at 12:58 hrs pm 13/02/17 suffice to say BG would be there somewhere. No cars can be seen and the satellite is apparently zoomed in at 100%

Hope that helps
MM

Exactly. Oh, and GH also said that he sent it to Holeman, and Holeman thought LE already had that image.

 

[Mike Britton]

Has anyone looked through Delphi HS yearbooks from 2016-2017? This became a regular pastime for the GSK sleuthers. I'm a new Sleuth, but would be extremely interested in plummeting down that rabbit hole if for no other reason than naiveté.

 

[TL4S]

I also think they were meeting someone and that they were passing the time while waiting for this person by taking photos like girls their age do.

And then BG shows up, unexpectedly, while the phone is still out and Libby records him because he is not who they expected.

He could have lured them down the hill by asking if they were looking for *fillintheblank* and then telling them *fillintheblank* was down the hill. That would explain why they would go down the hill without a fight.

I won't entirely dismiss any idea until BG is caught, but here's my reasons for doubting the girls were planning on meeting someone that day.

• They weren't dressed for it, IMO. I can't remember which interview (there was a man and a woman talking to AW over the phone - I think their theory was GK was BG), but AW even said Abby wouldn't have worn her hair that way if she was meeting a boy.
  
• Holeman mentioned other audio of the girls. I think if the girls were going to meet someone, that's what they would have been talking about, and LE would be all over it. Maybe they are, but that isn't the impression I get. JMO BBM Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence"It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.
• Again, I don't know which interview with BP or KG, but one of them explained when KG said she was leaving, Libby asked if she could drop them at the trail on her way. Whether or not they were secretly planning this along, it seems last minute, and in order to meet someone there, they would have then had to contact him somehow, and he also would have had to be available and hustle to get there and meet up. LE would probably know this from Libby's phone, IMO, and would be all over that, as well. JMO
• If they planned to meet a boy, IMO, they would plan to meet somewhere on the north end of the bridge. Crossing the bridge would be something they might do with a boy(s), for fun. Again, JMO
• KG said in her last interview with GH (sorry, no link right now) that LE has done the SM angle and it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the murders. This is subjective, of course.

 

[TL4S]

Personally, I wouldn't be able to sit through it The man likes the sound of his own voice too much

I've been hard on him, I'll admit, but after watching a few, I think a lot of the long stretches of chatter and silence are simply because he's reading comments as they come in, working maybe more than one screen, filtering and waiting on calls, censoring what he shows, etc. Multitasking to an extreme. I almost wish he would turn off the SM part until he's shown what he wants to show, then open everything up for calls and comments.

 

[susiQ]

I won't entirely dismiss any idea until BG is caught, but here's my reasons for doubting the girls were planning on meeting someone that day.

• They weren't dressed for it, IMO. I can't remember which interview (there was a man and a woman talking to AW over the phone - I think their theory was GK was BG), but AW even said Abby wouldn't have worn her hair that way if she was meeting a boy.
  
• Holeman mentioned other audio of the girls. I think if the girls were going to meet someone, that's what they would have been talking about, and LE would be all over it. Maybe they are, but that isn't the impression I get. JMO BBM Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence"It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.
• Again, I don't know which interview with BP or KG, but one of them explained when KG said she was leaving, Libby asked if she could drop them at the trail on her way. Whether or not they were secretly planning this along, it seems last minute, and in order to meet someone there, they would have then had to contact him somehow, and he also would have had to be available and hustle to get there and meet up. LE would probably know this from Libby's phone, IMO, and would be all over that, as well. JMO
• If they planned to meet a boy, IMO, they would plan to meet somewhere on the north end of the bridge. Crossing the bridge would be something they might do with a boy(s), for fun. Again, JMO
• KG said in her last interview with GH (sorry, no link right now) that LE has done the SM angle and it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the murders. This is subjective, of course.

Thank you for that! All very thoughtful observations and still leave part of my theory intact

 

[susiQ]

I've been hard on him, I'll admit, but after watching a few, I think a lot of the long stretches of chatter and silence are simply because he's reading comments as they come in, working maybe more than one screen, filtering and waiting on calls, censoring what he shows, etc. Multitasking to an extreme. I almost wish he would turn off the SM part until he's shown what he wants to show, then open everything up for calls and comments.

That would certainly make it more tolerable, but there are other reasons I can't tolerate him, unfortunately

 

[MingyMoo]

Personally, I wouldn't be able to sit through it The man likes the sound of his own voice too much

May be and I quite agree with you. However I did find it interesting. You can see all the foot paths/ trails/Horse paths. If I am not mistaken you can see how close one of the telephone towers is to the High Bridge it shines. The image gives a reality to the area on that day. The fact that the girls were just getting ready to leave home at 12:58 pm 13/02/17 or 2/13/17 depending on which part of the world you live in was actually very thought provoking. The fact that their killer had to have been in the local vicinity at that particular time. He will be there somewhere within the whole image is mind blowing.

Just My MingyMoo Opinion

 

[distracted]

I won't entirely dismiss any idea until BG is caught, but here's my reasons for doubting the girls were planning on meeting someone that day.

• They weren't dressed for it, IMO. I can't remember which interview (there was a man and a woman talking to AW over the phone - I think their theory was GK was BG), but AW even said Abby wouldn't have worn her hair that way if she was meeting a boy.
  
• Holeman mentioned other audio of the girls. I think if the girls were going to meet someone, that's what they would have been talking about, and LE would be all over it. Maybe they are, but that isn't the impression I get. JMO BBM Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence"It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.
• Again, I don't know which interview with BP or KG, but one of them explained when KG said she was leaving, Libby asked if she could drop them at the trail on her way. Whether or not they were secretly planning this along, it seems last minute, and in order to meet someone there, they would have then had to contact him somehow, and he also would have had to be available and hustle to get there and meet up. LE would probably know this from Libby's phone, IMO, and would be all over that, as well. JMO
• If they planned to meet a boy, IMO, they would plan to meet somewhere on the north end of the bridge. Crossing the bridge would be something they might do with a boy(s), for fun. Again, JMO
• KG said in her last interview with GH (sorry, no link right now) that LE has done the SM angle and it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the murders. This is subjective, of course.

I agree that not being dressed to meet a boy would be a reason to dismiss it. That said, there could be a number of reasons why they weren't. Perhaps it was last minute on his part and they didn't have time.

I also agree that LE would probably know what their plans were from Libby's phone but there are all kinds of apps that don't leave a trail. And if LE isn't looking specifically for it, they might not find it. If it was Snapchat, it most likely would have been deleted from their servers once both parties viewed it.

What are the odds that BG and the girls just happened to be at that particular place on the bridge at the same time without some preplanning? Or, that he could have pulled off the perfect crime - unless he knew they were going to be there. This is the crux of it for me. I just can't reconcile a happenstance meeting with BG getting away with it in about 30-45 minutes.

 

[Columbowannabe]

He purchased a satellite photo of the area taken about 35 minutes before the girls got dropped off at the bridge trail on 2/13/17. I do not have time to watch any more this morning, so I don’t know if it shows the car LE is asking about or what. Hopefully someone else can chime in. I am just too busy to watch his long videos. lol

No, you cannot see a car parked at the Cps bldg. i just blew 2 and a half hours watching the whole show.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

No, you cannot see a car parked at the Cps bldg. i just blew 2 and a half hours watching the whole show.

Thank you for your sacrifice

 

[susiQ]

What are the odds that BG and the girls just happened to be at that particular place on the bridge at the same time without some preplanning? Or, that he could have pulled off the perfect crime - unless he knew they were going to be there. This is the crux of it for me. I just can't reconcile a happenstance meeting with BG getting away with it in about 30-45 minutes.

SFF
If the killing was targeted, there may have been some pre-planning on the part of BG (or others) in that he (they) could have been waiting for an opportunity and somehow, through casual word of mouth unintentionally revealing where the girls were going, or Libby posting the snapchat photo, provided that opportunity. In that scenario, the girls were not planning to meet anyone.

When LE said he appeared to get "around town quickly" that day (sorry, I don't know where that was stated), HOW do they know that? If my memory is incorrect, someone let me know and I'll delete this part.

 

[Columbowannabe]

O


Thank you for your sacrifice

Haha!! You’re welcome!!