Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Pedrosmom]

Exactly. Oh, and GH also said that he sent it to Holeman, and Holeman thought LE already had that image.

What about the cemetery and the road that goes downhill and borders on the trail? Basically your vehicle wouldn’t be seen from the entrance road due to the steep incline. It is very close to the crime scene. I can’t see anything but if you pull a vehicle so close to the foliage it could be nearly covered and blended in. Does anyone know what area I’m speaking about?

 

[sunshineray]

Just read an interesting article. UCDavis working with proteins to reconstruct DNA

Forensic Proteomics, a New Tool for Crime Labs and Anthropology

I wonder if ISP has something containing the perp’s proteins? The articles mentions isolating whole DNA from hair keratin, for example. Might this be a strike of luck for ISP (if they have something contaminated with the perp’s proteins) and could UCDavis be interested in such a case, to test their methods?

Keeping fingers crossed for new technologies.

That's very interesting about the peroxide and hair. Even after treatment with peroxide the information in peptides remained intact. Also no root needed as with DNA. It may be years away from being used in court to identify a killer but it's very promising technology. Good read!

 

[susiQ]

What about the cemetery and the road that goes downhill and borders on the trail? Basically your vehicle wouldn’t be seen from the entrance road due to the steep incline. It is very close to the crime scene. I can’t see anything but if you pull a vehicle so close to the foliage it could be nearly covered and blended in. Does anyone know what area I’m speaking about?

Actually, yes! In one of my theories someone drops BG off at the trailhead to follow the girls in and then come up behind them and scare them across the bridge and "down the hill", across the creek to the CS, and gets picked up after the horrid deed is done at the cemetery, right up close to RL's gate. It's been said that the distance from the CS to that spot is about two football fields in length. The car wouldn't be seen from the road. Just speculation of course. This could have gone down in many other ways too. But, this scenario allows him an exit without being seen by anyone. JMO

 

[raja]

Well GH's last video gives me more hope as to what LE has. I am sure all the wizards they used to look at images can tell if and when a car was at the CPS site. This could be where they got that information. I suppose a satellite image could be considered a witness. GH may not be able to clearly zoom in on the picture, but who knows, maybe that is 100% zoom to the public but not LE. Does that make sense? Also I wonder what the timeline is of how often a satellite passed that area?

 

[TL4S]

What about the cemetery and the road that goes downhill and borders on the trail? Basically your vehicle wouldn’t be seen from the entrance road due to the steep incline. It is very close to the crime scene. I can’t see anything but if you pull a vehicle so close to the foliage it could be nearly covered and blended in. Does anyone know what area I’m speaking about?

Do you mean the road inside the cemetery itself? IMO, that back corner of the cemetery road would be the ideal spot for BG to have parked if he had planned a crime that day. It's hidden from N 300 W, he could walk the woods to the trail without being seen, cross the bridge after the girls, lead them across the creek, kill them there, then walk up the hill to his car and be gone. Honestly, that's the only scenario, in my mind, that gives reason for BG to cross the bridge heading south, and for him to cross the creek. No witnesses, so no worries if he's wet, dirty, injured, or bloody.

In this theory, though, he would have had to plan on abducting or killing someone that day, or otherwise known the girls were there.

This is not necessarily what I think happened, but it does fit neatly in a nice little box.

 

[MingyMoo]

SFF
If the killing was targeted, there may have been some pre-planning on the part of BG (or others) in that he (they) could have been waiting for an opportunity and somehow, through casual word of mouth unintentionally revealing where the girls were going, or Libby posting the snapchat photo, provided that opportunity. In that scenario, the girls were not planning to meet anyone.

When LE said he appeared to get "around town quickly" that day (sorry, I don't know where that was stated), HOW do they know that? If my memory is incorrect, someone let me know and I'll delete this part.

I really don't think these murders were targeted. I quite simply think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and naively & unknowingly walked into some thing else happening. What that something else is anyone's guess.

MM

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree that not being dressed to meet a boy would be a reason to dismiss it. That said, there could be a number of reasons why they weren't. Perhaps it was last minute on his part and they didn't have time.

If the girls had dressed stylish like going to meet a nice boy, perhaps they wouldn't have got the permission to go to MHB at all. Carers are watchful most of the time and aren't stupid. And teenage girls sometimes are very clever, if they want to do something "illegal". - I was a teenage girl myself, believe me.

 

[TL4S]

I agree that not being dressed to meet a boy would be a reason to dismiss it. That said, there could be a number of reasons why they weren't. Perhaps it was last minute on his part and they didn't have time.

I also agree that LE would probably know what their plans were from Libby's phone but there are all kinds of apps that don't leave a trail. And if LE isn't looking specifically for it, they might not find it. If it was Snapchat, it most likely would have been deleted from their servers once both parties viewed it.

What are the odds that BG and the girls just happened to be at that particular place on the bridge at the same time without some preplanning? Or, that he could have pulled off the perfect crime - unless he knew they were going to be there. This is the crux of it for me. I just can't reconcile a happenstance meeting with BG getting away with it in about 30-45 minutes.

I agree, the odds seem low. I will give you this, if LE suspected a catfishing type scheme, and the girls had to contact BG to tell him to meet them within a half hour or so...you'd definitely assume him to be local.

 

[TL4S]

I really don't think these murders were targeted. I quite simply think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and naively & unknowingly walked into some thing else happening. What that something else is anyone's guess.

MM

I've even wondered if BG was already around, hiking, fishing, whatever. He saw the girls and there was some kind of exchange that either p*ssed him off, or tripped his trigger, and that's when things came undone. If the car at the CPS lot is linked to BG, this seems a more likely scenario, IMO, because when he parked he wasn't worried about getting back to it unseen. If LE would just tell us where his d*amn car was parked, we could probably figure this out by looking at the map.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I really don't think these murders were targeted. I quite simply think they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and naively & unknowingly walked into some thing else happening. What that something else is anyone's guess.

MM

The only thing that speaks against this theory is, that one person was on the bridge, where the girls have been. What else could have happened in this area, would have happened beneath the bridge probably, on the trail, in the woods. Why did BG enter the bridge? Why was it necessary, if he wasn't on a thrill-kill mission?
IF the girls took photos of the area beneath the bridge and BG was down there and was afraid of these pics, why did he leave the phone at the crime scene?
It doesn't make sense for me, I'm further wrecking my brain ....

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Actually, yes! In one of my theories someone drops BG off at the trailhead to follow the girls in and then come up behind them and scare them across the bridge and "down the hill", across the creek to the CS, and gets picked up after the horrid deed is done at the cemetery, right up close to RL's gate. It's been said that the distance from the CS to that spot is about two football fields in length. The car wouldn't be seen from the road. Just speculation of course. This could have gone down in many other ways too. But, this scenario allows him an exit without being seen by anyone. JMO

Yes also! There was a good bit of talk early on about the cemetery. My initial theory was that BG spotted the girls while they were driving to the trails and followed them, driving past them as they were let out at the trailhead and parking at the back of the cemetery where Pedrosmom is talking about.(I was thinking at the time the girls drove through town to the trails but I was wrong about that I think. So that part is wrong pretty sure, anyway...) I then thought BG entered the trails there, accosted the girls, and walked up the steeper slope on that side, got in his car and left. It’s still one of my theories, though I’ve conjured up others since. I tend to like it because of its simplicity. It explains why no one may have seen him leave, but I would think the car should have left tire tracks. Maybe it did and we just haven’t been told.

 

[tresir2012]

Actually, yes! In one of my theories someone drops BG off at the trailhead to follow the girls in and then come up behind them and scare them across the bridge and "down the hill", across the creek to the CS, and gets picked up after the horrid deed is done at the cemetery, right up close to RL's gate. It's been said that the distance from the CS to that spot is about two football fields in length. The car wouldn't be seen from the road. Just speculation of course. This could have gone down in many other ways too. But, this scenario allows him an exit without being seen by anyone. JMO

It is a good theory but he was seen exiting the cemetery and seen in a couple of other places too wasn't he? JMO.

 

[TL4S]

The only thing that speaks against this theory is, that one person was on the bridge, where the girls have been. What else could have happened in this area, would have happened beneath the bridge probably, on the trail, in the woods. Why did BG enter the bridge? Why was it necessary, if he wasn't on a thrill-kill mission?
IF the girls took photos of the area beneath the bridge and BG was down there and was afraid of these pics, why did he leave the phone at the crime scene?
It doesn't make sense for me, I'm further wrecking my brain ....

Yeah, I think when BG stepped onto that bridge, the girls were already his target. How long before that they might have been, I don't know, but once on the bridge, it was cat and mice.

 

[MingyMoo]

The only thing that speaks against this theory is, that one person was on the bridge, where the girls have been. What else could have happened in this area, would have happened beneath the bridge probably, on the trail, in the woods. Why did BG enter the bridge? Why was it necessary, if he wasn't on a thrill-kill mission?
IF the girls took photos of the area beneath the bridge and BG was down there and was afraid of these pics, why did he leave the phone at the crime scene?
It doesn't make sense for me, I'm further wrecking my brain ....

No idea depends who could have been or what scenario could have been in front of them when they got to the end of the bridge. Like everyone I really don't know

Edited to add: I think BG his fear was being seen and recognised whether by the girls visually or their video capture. I think that is why he killed them

MM

 

[MingyMoo]

Oh and just for another twisted thought. Unless LE know different who is it to say YBG didn't take video of OBG on Libby's phone and just put the phone where it could /would be found daft idea I know.
Don't mind my radical personal opinions and theories like anyone just exploring all avenues however daft they appear.

MM

 

[Charlot123]

Has anyone looked through Delphi HS yearbooks from 2016-2017? This became a regular pastime for the GSK sleuthers. I'm a new Sleuth, but would be extremely interested in plummeting down that rabbit hole if for no other reason than naiveté.

@Mike Britton , the problem is, what do we have to look for? The sketch is an approximation. The video is not how the person looks like IRL.

What is interesting, though, is to check if someone from those yearbooks has unexpectedly closed his social media, you know?

 

[Charlot123]

That's very interesting about the peroxide and hair. Even after treatment with peroxide the information in peptides remained intact. Also no root needed as with DNA. It may be years away from being used in court to identify a killer but it's very promising technology. Good read!

They say, one year...

Media contact(s)
Glendon Parker, Environmental Toxicology, 530-752-9870, gjparker@ucdavis.edu

Andy Fell, News and Media Relations, 530-752-4533, ahfell@ucdavis.edu

I mean, no harm for ISP to call and ask if there might be something applicable to their case?

(Andy Fell publishes other articles about new developments, as I have noticed. It might be about finding the right researcher working in the area).

 

[Falcon500]

So are you saying the video that Libby took of the man in the blue jacket is not the killer? More like a red herring?

More like a teenager being a teenager taking photos of weird people or weird things.

 

[tresir2012]

BG has been seen by witnesses on the trail and the bridge and on 300 near the cemetery. He has not apparently been seen in a car or near a car. (unless new witnesses have come forward). So I am wondering if actually he came and went on foot and was local to the area indeed, perhaps there hunting or fishing or trapping and attacked the girls for some unknown psychotic reason. Then cleaned up in the creek before leaving the creek area on foot (the footprints) thru the cemetery (witnessed) and then east past RL's farm in the direction of Wilson's bridge. No vehicle was involved as no Amber alert was issued so now this vehicle at the CPS building is rather strange IMO.

 

[TL4S]

BG has been seen by witnesses on the trail and the bridge and on 300 near the cemetery. He has not apparently been seen in a car or near a car. (unless new witnesses have come forward). So I am wondering if actually he came and went on foot and was local to the area indeed, perhaps there hunting or fishing or trapping and attacked the girls for some unknown psychotic reason. Then cleaned up in the creek before leaving the creek area on foot (the footprints) thru the cemetery (witnessed) and then east past RL's farm in the direction of Wilson's bridge. No vehicle was involved as no Amber alert was issued so now this vehicle at the CPS building is rather strange IMO.

See, the car at the CPS lot throws me, too. I know they haven't yet linked it directly to BG, but there's two unknowns during the time of the crimes: BG, and that car. I think there's a good chance they're connected, but I could be wrong.