Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Seattle Stew, thanks for the interesting post. No, I don't believe we have ever heard who the "couple arguing under the bridge" was.

IDK why some here thought the suggestion it could have been BG and Girl(s) was absurd... It very well could have been, for all we know, right?

Well BG and the girls isnt a couple....its a trio. And one would think a difference could be made between an adult male arguing with a young teenage girl, and that of a peer. And while its possible it COULD have been...it could just be that....2 others arguing that day.

Lets unpack the suggestion at hand...for someone to hear a couple arguing and it be BG and the girls, again, a couple is 2 people. That would mean:

- one of the girls was incapacitated.

- the other girl was calm enough to argue. She wasnt hysterical or crying, despite her friend's inability to also have a voice.

- BG, who naturally would try to control the situation, is engaging in an argument loud enough to be heard by others

So I wouldnt get too caught up in the speculation as to whether or not it is possible it was BG and the girls....because it really doesnt matter. We cannot know for certain, and even if we did, so what?
 
Last edited:
Obviously. Especially since Carter has openly stated "We are one tip away from success."

MOO some people believe police have a suspect and are keeping them under surveillance, I am saying I don't think they do.
I think they have approximately 24 individuals left after talking with thousands these two dozen or so have insufficient alibis, but no conclusive match to the scene.
 
Last edited:
MOO some people believe police have a suspect and are keeping them under surveillance, I am saying I don't think they do.
I think they have approximately 24 individuals left after talking with thousands who have insufficient alibis, but no conclusive match to the scene.

Gottcha! And i agree. And on the flipside, i suppose i can see when Carter says "We're going to continue to push and push and push until we get that final piece of information," it can lead to speculation and interpretation of what he meant.
 
Well BG and the girls isnt a couple....its a trio. And one would think a difference could be made between an adult male arguing with a young teenage girl, and that of a peer. And while its possible it COULD have been...it could just be that....2 others arguing that day.

Lets unpack the suggestion at hand...for someone to hear a couple arguing and it be BG and the girls, again, a couple is 2 people. That would mean:

- one of the girls was incapacitated.

- the other girl was calm enough to argue. She wasnt hysterical or crying, despite her friend's inability to also have a voice.

- BG, who naturally would try to control the situation, is engaging in an argument loud enough to be heard by others

So I wouldnt get too caught up in the speculation as to whether or not it is possible it was BG and the girls....because it really doesnt matter. We cannot know for certain, and even if we did, so what?

My cartooned peony-hatted self is scared to reply to your avitar and name.... :p

I agree that “couple” would seem to imply only two people, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it wasn’t BG and the girls (or girl). Number of reasons- one girl could have been just out of sight of the witness, or tied to a tree, or already deceased, or some other reason. I agree it seems odd that if BG was part of that “couple” that he would be speaking so loudly for someone else to hear him. Although IIRC, we don’t know the witness heard them do we? Perhaps they just saw them, and surmised from body language that they were arguing, or even just could barley here the tone. Additionally, “Guys, down the hill” didn’t seem whispered to me. And wind can make sound travel.

Even if there are some elements that don’t seem to line up exactly, I still think given the lack of detailed info we’ve been given around this witness and their statement that it’s certainly possible the witness was in fact describing BG whether they realized it or not.

As for what difference it makes, I see it like this: whether BG was part of that “couple” is just as important to us WS’ers getting the best outline of what happened that day as trying to figure out from which direction BG came, did the girls cross though the water, did they hang out on the bridge for while, did their phone die or was it powered down, etc etc etc. All details that go into the broader picture. JMO.
 
Well, we always find out how much info LE has had all along that we never fathomed. They have state police, local sheriffs and FBI all investigating and I'm pretty sure it was the FBI that created a profile of the killer.

I believe the chances of four separate agencies (local police were also involved) and all the personnel in each of those agencies, all operating under confirmation bias that websleuthers are smart enough to recognize (while they aren't) is slim. Add that one of those agencies is the FBI and the chance IMO is zero.

How we interpret information is a basis for how we form our opinions. Here is my interpretation of the April 22, 2019 press conference.

1. Supt. Carter speaking through the camera to the killer- Since he did this at the first press conference I think it means he has no idea who the killer is or what he looks like. If they did they would want to speak to the killer in an interrogation room and not through t.v. The statement about the killer maybe being in the room is just a reference to their recent theory that the killer is a local individual who lives in a small town.

2. The statement made that police believe the killer want to know what they know, and someday he will- A direct reference to the their opinion that they believe the killer did not know he was being videotaped or audio recorded. In addition, the fact that it seems like law enforcement feels so emotional about this crime is a strong indication to me that whatever is on the recording is probably something that will never be released to the public because of its nature.

3. The direction of the investigation- In my opinion, I think the investigation is going in the same direction, different sketch. I just think that when you look at the case as a whole, it being a local to either Delphi or the surrounding area makes the case easier to solve. It is just like tips that have a name or address. If it were a national investigation, think about how daunting a task it will be to solve this case. They are always open to possibilities, but I think their priority and focus when it comes to tips is local.

4. The sketches and Liberty German's video- Even if law enforcement walked up to the bridge guy, if he has followed the case at all after over 2 1/2 years, wouldn't he just deny that he was the one in the video? The point is that law enforcement already knows they are probably going to have to use audio analysis or some type of physical evidence to connect him to the crime.

Imagine if this example tip was sent in from someone in Denver, CO:

"I saw the bridge guy Delphi killer eating at McDonalds around 2 pm today. The guy looked exactly like the person in the video I saw on a billboard. I saw him get into a blue pickup truck that he drove east on (road). I do not know who he is and could not get a license plate number."

In order to check out this tip, investigators would have to call Denver P.D., then hope they have someone who wants to go to McDonalds and then pull surveillance tapes from the McDonalds to try and pick him out. Then they would have to hope he did not pay cash, but used a credit card or some other identifying i.d. As for his pickup truck, maybe McDonalds had outside cameras, or maybe they could try and get surveillance video from a bank with a camera facing the road just down the road from the direction the witness said the pickup drove towards. The video quality would have to be good enough to read a license plate number. And all this just for someone who thinks that maybe they saw the Delphi bridge guy killer like probably hundreds of other tips.

So do you think law enforcement investigates those types of tips?
 
Yes
Well BG and the girls isnt a couple....its a trio. And one would think a difference could be made between an adult male arguing with a young teenage girl, and that of a peer. And while its possible it COULD have been...it could just be that....2 others arguing that day.

Lets unpack the suggestion at hand...for someone to hear a couple arguing and it be BG and the girls, again, a couple is 2 people. That would mean:

- one of the girls was incapacitated.

- the other girl was calm enough to argue. She wasnt hysterical or crying, despite her friend's inability to also have a voice.

- BG, who naturally would try to control the situation, is engaging in an argument loud enough to be heard by others

So I wouldnt get too caught up in the speculation as to whether or not it is possible it was BG and the girls....because it really doesnt matter. We cannot know for certain, and even if we did, so what?
Yes, I realize BG + 2 Girls = 3 but am sure what someone thought of as a "couple arguing" could just have easily been 3, perhaps one out of sight or not speaking.
 
Well BG and the girls isnt a couple....its a trio. And one would think a difference could be made between an adult male arguing with a young teenage girl, and that of a peer. And while its possible it COULD have been...it could just be that....2 others arguing that day.

Lets unpack the suggestion at hand...for someone to hear a couple arguing and it be BG and the girls, again, a couple is 2 people. That would mean:

- one of the girls was incapacitated.

- the other girl was calm enough to argue. She wasnt hysterical or crying, despite her friend's inability to also have a voice.

- BG, who naturally would try to control the situation, is engaging in an argument loud enough to be heard by others

So I wouldnt get too caught up in the speculation as to whether or not it is possible it was BG and the girls....because it really doesnt matter. We cannot know for certain, and even if we did, so what?
So what? It would mean we could place BG there at that time and whomever saw this "couple" and heard them arguing, might be a useful witness as to what he/she saw, heard, and when.
 
If the couple arguing under the bridge did not include BG.... then ... who were they and have they never come forward.... or do they not exist?

If they do not exist, that Witness lied to DG but, why?

Arguing under a bridge implies distraught tense strained voices. I would imagine the girls and BG may have had such exchanges if he wanted them to do something they did not want to cooperate with. Wonder why the witness wasn't concerned enough to linger, though, to see if someone there was in distress.
 
My cartooned peony-hatted self is scared to reply to your avitar and name.... :p

I agree that “couple” would seem to imply only two people, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it wasn’t BG and the girls (or girl). Number of reasons- one girl could have been just out of sight of the witness, or tied to a tree, or already deceased, or some other reason. I agree it seems odd that if BG was part of that “couple” that he would be speaking so loudly for someone else to hear him. Although IIRC, we don’t know the witness heard them do we? Perhaps they just saw them, and surmised from body language that they were arguing, or even just could barley here the tone. Additionally, “Guys, down the hill” didn’t seem whispered to me. And wind can make sound travel.

Even if there are some elements that don’t seem to line up exactly, I still think given the lack of detailed info we’ve been given around this witness and their statement that it’s certainly possible the witness was in fact describing BG whether they realized it or not.

As for what difference it makes, I see it like this: whether BG was part of that “couple” is just as important to us WS’ers getting the best outline of what happened that day as trying to figure out from which direction BG came, did the girls cross though the water, did they hang out on the bridge for while, did their phone die or was it powered down, etc etc etc. All details that go into the broader picture. JMO.

Oh I can be quite pleasant. ;)

Thank you for a well written, organized post to answer my question(s).

I still feel this appears to be speculation/assumption, off speculation/assumption, off of a rumor. How that can fill in details for the broader picture, i dont see it.
 
Bbm - I might’ve been one of the ones disagreeing with you and if I was I apologize.

This is what I saw that convinced me....the shadows of both LG and BG are extending from the same side of their body (they go to the right, but they are extending from their left side) so they are walking the same direction. The angle of the bridge in the background is all funky if you look at the pics side by side. In The SC pic it goes more NW to SE and in the BG still it goes NE to SW. This really gave me a headache for a day or two, but the weird angles are because of selfie mode.

Lay a stick at an angle on a flat surface and look at it like you were taking a pic. Then turn around with the camera in selfie mode and look at it. The angle of the stick will switch just like the 2 pictures.

You can do selfie mode with both the camera on the phone and with SC. I still haven’t decided which she used and I’ve read all of the arguments for and against each method. Even though it’s not a popular opinion SC makes the most sense to me at the moment.
I'm impressed. That was clever. You have also answered another query for me. I kept thinking BG was approaching from the opposite side of the bridge because of the angle. Thanks for that
 
Going back to my idea, it could also be the reason why Libby filmed the BG. Because she had seen a guy dressed similarly on the trail, except she knew this man had a different face. She probably, and correctly, thought, 'Something isn't right' and decided to film BG. Probably got spooked.
 
If the couple arguing under the bridge did not include BG.... then ... who were they and have they never come forward.... or do they not exist?

If they do not exist, that Witness lied to DG but, why?

Arguing under a bridge implies distraught tense strained voices. I would imagine the girls and BG may have had such exchanges if he wanted them to do something they did not want to cooperate with. Wonder why the witness wasn't concerned enough to linger, though, to see if someone there was in distress.

Well we dont know if they didnt come forward or not. You are assuming they didnt.

There have been conflicting stories on what FSG told DG. Is there a credible source, news or police report that shows exactly what FSG told DG? If so, i havent seen it. If one posted it here and i missed it, forgive me. But Ive seen near the bridge, under the bridge, on the bridge...

How that leads one to think it was BG and the girls (again a trio, not a couple), or perhaps one of the girls were tied up...they were conversing only slightly elevated and the wind made it sound loud...

I know its frustrating, and every angle seems to be exhausted, but personally, I just dont see how this matters, because its speculation on speculation off of a rumor, and none of this speculation gets us any closer to anything
 
Last edited:
So what? It would mean we could place BG there at that time and whomever saw this "couple" and heard them arguing, might be a useful witness as to what he/she saw, heard, and when.

Wait...how could we place BG there at the same time? Did FSG say when he saw the couple there? Did he give a time? Do we even know exactly when BG was there? Again, ive read FSG allegedly said he saw then in 3 different places....a poster in one place will say under, another on, another beside...

We dont know exactly what FSG said he saw, do we? So how exactly does one work out a timeline and put BG there at the same time as this phantom couple? I just feel like this particular claim/suggestion starts with a kernal of truth (BG encountered FSG) and then spreads to more and more wild speculation, that spreads misinformation more than it does credible theory.
 
Going back to my idea, it could also be the reason why Libby filmed the BG. Because she had seen a guy dressed similarly on the trail, except she knew this man had a different face. She probably, and correctly, thought, 'Something isn't right' and decided to film BG. Probably got spooked.

What could be the reason? He had a different face? And was able to clearly see this more than 20 yards away, get her phone out, and hit record as he comes to 20 yards within?

Imo, that seems far fetched. Its not easy to make out someone's facial features and notice differences in someone who maybe dressed similarly, from that distance, that quickly.
 
If the couple arguing under the bridge did not include BG.... then ... who were they and have they never come forward.... or do they not exist?

If they do not exist, that Witness lied to DG but, why?

Arguing under a bridge implies distraught tense strained voices. I would imagine the girls and BG may have had such exchanges if he wanted them to do something they did not want to cooperate with. Wonder why the witness wasn't concerned enough to linger, though, to see if someone there was in distress.

1 more thing...

If LE wasnt able to find the couple, and they didnt come forward....wouldnt Carter ask for help identifying a couple who was seen at the bridge? U know...like he asked for help pertaining to a vehicle?
 
Going back to my idea, it could also be the reason why Libby filmed the BG. Because she had seen a guy dressed similarly on the trail, except she knew this man had a different face. She probably, and correctly, thought, 'Something isn't right' and decided to film BG. Probably got spooked.

BBM

This pretty much lines up with my theory. They saw BG on the trail, and were spooked to see him come to the bridge and start crossing it. I've said since the beginning BG is wearing a disguise.

Could it be BG changed his appearance after seeing A&L on the trail? Does that at least partly explain the two sketches? I've yet to hear about LE discounting the first sketch, yet the "new" sketch is one made mere days after the murders.

BG would have had some time to change his appearance, if that's the case. The girls would have passed him on the trail around 1:45 give or take. I'm of the opinion the "down the hill" happened around 2:20, give or take, and have thought so for a while.

I've yet to see anything in the media hinting or alluding to anyone at the trails that day saying they recognize BG.

JMO

-FD
 
If the couple arguing under the bridge did not include BG.... then ... who were they and have they never come forward.... or do they not exist?

If they do not exist, that Witness lied to DG but, why?

Arguing under a bridge implies distraught tense strained voices. I would imagine the girls and BG may have had such exchanges if he wanted them to do something they did not want to cooperate with. Wonder why the witness wasn't concerned enough to linger, though, to see if someone there was in distress.

This witness has not indicated in the affirmative that whoever was arguing resembles A&L and BG. Which tells me it had nothing to do with the murders.

-JMO

-FD
 
Does that at least partly explain the two sketches? I've yet to hear about LE discounting the first sketch, yet the "new" sketch is one made mere days after the murders.

BG would have had some time to change his appearance, if that's the case. The girls would have passed him on the trail around 1:45 give or take. I'm of the opinion the "down the hill" happened around 2:20, give or take, and have thought so for a while.

I've yet to see anything in the media hinting or alluding to anyone at the trails that day saying they recognize BG.

JMO

-FD

They have.

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
167
Guests online
233
Total visitors
400

Forum statistics

Threads
608,951
Messages
18,247,976
Members
234,513
Latest member
morrie1
Back
Top