Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[FinePrint]

I think it’s an interesting idea and a lot of people would be signing on with it. We all would love to brainstorm, unimpeded, with fellow sleuthers I’m sure.
But since LE has released no real information I would fear it could turn into just a big speculation festival. Could a PI really investigate without LE claiming they were interfering?
All that being said...I’d donate!

Yeah, I have no idea how PIs work. I know they have more lead way then the general public but I think a lot depends on how much LE is willing to cooperate with them.

I also think the right PI would have to be employed. Former FBI and so on. I've looked briefly and have noticed that several PI agencies claim to work on murder cases, cold cases and so on and claim to be prior FBI agent and the likes.

Has anyone heard of a case where a PI has gotten involved and has successfully solved the case with the final outcome being a conviction?

 

[susiQ]

Rehash of a point here, but it goes to clarity.

Is the BG seen in the video - and the voice captured in the audio - the same person?

Starting at around 7:45 of this 3/5/17 video, while discussing suspect vs. suspects, ISP Capt Bursten seems to say it may not be.

“People want to make the assumption that the voice saying down the hill belongs to the person in the image that’s captured from the cell phone. That’s not necessarily the case. We’re not making any assumptions about that.”

Yet, Sgt Carter clearly says yes after the PC.

“Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

Thank you for posting this together! Definitely contradictory statements, and what are WE to make of it. Would be nice to get the two of them in the same room and ask that question directly and see what each of them comes up with. This is only one example of why this case can drive you cray cray! IMHO

 

[Boxer]

MOO I thought Indiana would be tough on crime, but seeing the rap sheets on the various POIs that have come up and how their courts lower charges and shorten sentences, they now seem to have so many drug addicted child molesters out in their mainstream culture that I now think they are lucky they don't have murders like Abby and Libby's every 3 months.

 

[Nadal]

Really don't think it's our place to be hiring PI's, that decision should be up to the family who both have an actual personal stake in this and likely know a lot more than we do. We shouldn't be directly involving ourselves in the investigation in any way IMO, actually in the member verification process thread Tricia herself says the forum's policy is usually to dissuade members of Websleuths from getting directly involved in investigations.

Sorry to be a buzzkill but i feel very strongly that this is a bad idea.

 

[Charlot123]

I have over the last few hours been considering the definition Local. Once again it depends on where you live in the world and if you live in a small rural community. For example I drive 2 miles to my nearest local convenience shop. Its local and I don't think anything about it. I am one of those rural types that also lives in a place where the local countryside and its readily made natural amenities is an escape for our Neighbours from nearby Suburbs/Towns/Cities. That got me to thinking as to all the things we really do take for granted as really local people and the visitors our environment attract during holidays, weekends or days off work etc,etc. we attract

• Ramblers
• Fishermen
• Wildlife watchers
• Conservation Groups
• Twitchers
• Railway Enthusiasts
• Geo Cachers
• People wanting a day out in the Countryside
• Criminals (They have a frigging field day)

Just to name a few but it is nothing for them to travel half an hour to get to the spot where on the whole they can participate in their hobbies, know the area and be close to home. Therefore when LE say Local I perhaps don't think they mean as in Delphi Resident i think they mean as in within a 20 mile radius.

Students, too.

Also, I think the circle might even be larger if the traffic is light. And from what I understand basing on GH’s new satellite photo, it was very light on the roads around the crime area. With low traffic, 30 miles is 30 minutes on any hwy. Back roads are less, but he has little risk on meeting the police if using back roads. So, i’d extend it, to 30+ miles.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I fear contamination or a degradation but whatever it is, it is not enough at this time with the information they have.

And, unfortunately, that group of suspects isn't talking. Or, like me, they are confused by the sketches so have discounted any suspicion they might have.

I fear they had a lot of consumptive evidence here, along with a rookie crime scene collection of it. That is a recipe for acquittal. Moo

 

[FinePrint]

MOO I thought Indiana would be tough on crime, but seeing the rap sheets on the various POIs that have come up and how their courts lower charges and shorten sentences, they now seem to have so many drug addicted child molesters out in their mainstream culture that I now think they are lucky they don't have murders like Abby and Libby's every 3 months.

Oh you are so right and I agree 100%. I didn't realize all of this until I got involved in this case and started sleuthing POIs in Indiana court records. It is very strange how the system works here. Crimes that are committed that deserves prison time yet they walk. I had a burnt out light on the rear of my SUV and I got a ticket which I was not allowed to simply pay but had to go to court for!!! WTF!! And I have no previous records, not even a speeding ticket or J walking!! I have to wonder why that is. Easy money....I look like I may have some money??

Used to be LE would pull you over as a courtesy to let you know you had a light out. Now its to court you go....yet you got these Meth heads walking around, breaking into houses to steal hard working peoples possessions to pawn to pay for their addictions. Who is the law protecting here?

 

[Pedrosmom]

Well, I guess my issue is that LE specifically said the vehicle was parked in the lot of the old CPS building.
I have not heard LE retract that statement so I am not sure where GH is getting this other info and this is probably one reason this case has not been solved because most people are frustrated with LE and must think LE is lying to us about facts that they are giving to us, the public.
OR do they think LE is trying to get someone to say "oh..wait, No, that car/driver wasn't parked there, it was on side of the road, to which, LE KNEW that, and now the person is a POI ??
OR GH is speculating information but then everyone starts thinking what he is saying is true and forgets what LE told us. Probably another reason LE said the videos are incorrect. LOL

I think they figured out who owned that vehicle. I think they’ve been looking for a long time at this person and family. Moo

 

[Pedrosmom]

Well, I guess my issue is that LE specifically said the vehicle was parked in the lot of the old CPS building.
I have not heard LE retract that statement so I am not sure where GH is getting this other info and this is probably one reason this case has not been solved because most people are frustrated with LE and must think LE is lying to us about facts that they are giving to us, the public.
OR do they think LE is trying to get someone to say "oh..wait, No, that car/driver wasn't parked there, it was on side of the road, to which, LE KNEW that, and now the person is a POI ??
OR GH is speculating information but then everyone starts thinking what he is saying is true and forgets what LE told us. Probably another reason LE said the videos are incorrect. LOL

I think they figured out who owned that vehicle. I think they’ve been looking for a long time at this person and family. Moo

 

[FinePrint]

Really don't think it's our place to be hiring PI's, that decision should be up to the family who both have an actual personal stake in this and likely know a lot more than we do. We shouldn't be directly involving ourselves in the investigation in any way IMO, actually in the member verification process thread Tricia herself says the forum's policy is usually to dissuade members of Websleuths from getting directly involved in investigations.

Sorry to be a buzzkill but i feel very strongly that this is a bad idea.

All opinions wanted and respected by me!

 

[ScumbagTrav]

I agree.

The article you posted attempted to clear up that confusion - and I think it did clear up a few issues - but, like you said, if we don't understand, chances are a lot of people don't understand.

If we aren’t clear, how does the general public deal with the sketches and audio?

The answer, IMO - is they don’t.

The information LE has released is designed for the one person, or inner circle of people, that are either not recognizing what they do know, or - more likely - are covering for a killer.

I am not a witness in any way. It is for the locals only, I think. They don’t report, and it could be the indicator that the LE might look into improving relationships with them. Presenting it as the community issue, where everyone is on the same side against the perpetrator.

As to me - even if I see someone on a photo who might stir up some intuitive feelings, I need to see how the people walk or hear them speak. To add to it, there are probably several common types of faces in Delphi, so confusion is possible.

I guess im confused as to what locals arent supposed to understand or be confused by. Are they're numerous reports about local idiocracy or local confusion? It seems simple to me....if u see this image, see the sketch, hear the audio or see/hear something suspicious, call LE. Pretty simple.

 

[Charlot123]

I am beginning to think that there is something they have not told the press or anyone about the crime itself, yet, and are keeping quiet. And we still don’t know what that twist is.

What if they say “a hunter or a fisherman”, but IRL it is a person with medical or veterinarian skills? They are probably collecting the information, still checking the alibis, but the reason they don’t get “that very” lead is because people are thinking about local druggies, and the person is from a totally different area of life? And his family doesn’t even think of him being the perp? Like “he sounds slightly like you”, but this is all.

I think there might be a reason why the person was in such a haste.

 

[crhedBngr]

(sigh)

Here we are, on the 112th thread, almost time to start Thread No. 113, and no arrest.

Let today be the day a perp. is arrested and charged in this case!

 

[Charlot123]

The point here is simply this.

Folks on here have looked at every detail of this case for 2 1/2 years. If we aren’t clear, how does the general public deal with the sketches and audio?

The answer, IMO - is they don’t.

The information LE has released is designed for the one person, or inner circle of people, that are either not recognizing what they do know, or - more likely - are covering for a killer.

Maybe not recognizing? If the person is from “a respected” layer of the society?

 

[Boxer]

Maybe not recognizing? If the person is from “a respected” layer of the society?

I think it would take a lot to have person truly question if a person they have known and possibly love is BG.
And BG apparently was a 45 yo so if the NBG is correct, long ago no suspicions were raised or suspicions were put away for not being a match at all to the guy on the bridge.

 

[FinePrint]

I'm still perplexed that LE does not feel the need to warn the public about a killer on the loose. They merely said people around here know what to make of this and how to react accordingly (not verbatim quote but the meaning is the same).

I'm not in Delphi but pretty close by. My perspective may be a little different as to how I react to all of this. To me there is possibly a killer living among us "in plain sight". If LE doesn't know who he is how are we to know he will not strike again. Someone else's kids aren't in danger of being murdered. I do feel I have a personal stake in this and so do many in Delphi and surrounding towns.

Sometimes I'll have someone over to repair a washer, add an outlet or some kind of home repair. I actually find myself thinking...could this guy be BG.

 

[Boxer]

I'm still perplexed that LE does not feel the need to warn the public about a killer on the loose. They merely said people around here know what to make of this and how to react accordingly (not verbatim quote but the meaning is the same).

I'm not in Delphi but pretty close by. My perspective may be a little different as to how I react to all of this. To me there is possibly a killer living among us "in plain sight". If LE doesn't know who he is how are we to know he will not strike again. Someone else's kids aren't in danger of being murdered. I do feel I have a personal stake in this and so do many in Delphi and surrounding towns.

Sometimes I'll have someone over to repair a washer, add an outlet or some kind of home repair. I actually find myself thinking...could this guy be BG.

I think if they felt it was drug or drug money related they would say the community at large is not in danger,
Only reason I can think of.

 

[Jax49]

I'm still perplexed that LE does not feel the need to warn the public about a killer on the loose. They merely said people around here know what to make of this and how to react accordingly (not verbatim quote but the meaning is the same).

I'm not in Delphi but pretty close by. My perspective may be a little different as to how I react to all of this. To me there is possibly a killer living among us "in plain sight". If LE doesn't know who he is how are we to know he will not strike again. Someone else's kids aren't in danger of being murdered. I do feel I have a personal stake in this and so do many in Delphi and surrounding towns.

Sometimes I'll have someone over to repair a washer, add an outlet or some kind of home repair. I actually find myself thinking...could this guy be BG.

From 2017, warning regarding possible "next time"

Sgt. Holeman said their number one priority right now is to bring justice for Abby and Libby’s family – but their second priority is to make sure something like this never happens again.

“The monster(s) that did this possibly could do this again, and next time it could be your sister or daughter or granddaughter or cousin – somebody you know and love and care about – and we don’t want that, that’s what keeps us awake at night as law enforcement officers.”

bbm

Delphi lead investigator: "We're close"

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think there might be a reason why the person was in such a haste.

Maybe perhaps, BG is a person, who always is in extraordinary haste, in principle, like signs of an illness, restless somehow and also sporty - AND the BG had to match his own thoughtful and evil created alibi (meet someone, arrive somewhere, call someone, etc. at clock 3 pm or similar). MOO

 

[TL4S]

Thank you for posting this together! Definitely contradictory statements, and what are WE to make of it. Would be nice to get the two of them in the same room and ask that question directly and see what each of them comes up with. This is only one example of why this case can drive you cray cray! IMHO

The difference in statements could also be the fact that they are said almost two years apart. I think the natural fluidity of an investigation could accounts for some of the contradictions, at least. JMO

I don't mean to say that LE is without error, they make mistakes. But they only have whatever evidence they have. They can't, in reality, build a case against someone based on the same kinds of things we do, like SM posts, side-by-sides, and decoding possible cryptic wording from MSM articles, interviews, and court documents.