Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

[Eleanor Grace Irving]

If BG's hair looked like Justin Bieber, IMO the sketch would be drawn that way. That would be a huge detail to identify BG. I once believed that it was fluffy hair but when you really watch the video you can see it is light reflecting and pixelation and that it is the rim of the sweatshirt. It wouldn't go down then back up that quickly.

 

[Eleanor Grace Irving]

I know, it's just that one frame so the drawing confused me too but it's what I see every time I look. I appreciate your input. All moo? ( I'm hoping my guess that it means my opinion is correct ).

 

[katydid23]

just an imaginary scenario...

...what if someone even knew their family member was on "valid" (i.e. justifiable) business adjacent to or even on the same property as the crime scene on the day of the crime, and they know this because they went to pick up their family member from that location very shortly after the time we now know the murders occurred? could they still rationalize away the suspicion after seeing the new, younger sketch, with the disproportionate chin, that looks more like their family member, whereas the original OBG sketch did not?

Yes, I think they could rationalise away the suspicion.

Here is a frustrating example. Just saw this again in the Ted Bundy documentary on Oxygen.

Bundy tried kidnapping a girl and she actually got away from him, as he was driving her into the woods, to kill her. She knew his name was Ted and drove a tan VW Bug, and was a student at the local college and she helped them draw a picture of him.

His picture was plastered all over the news, and reports that he was a college student named Ted, who drove a tan VW Bug.

Ted's girlfriend and her friend were suspicious of him when they heard that news. Obviously. And they were going to call the police. BUT THEN Ted's girlfriend looked at the news article, and it said he drove a 'gold' VW Bug. SO SHE RATIONALIZED AWAY HER FEARS---wrong color, his bug is tan, not gold----WTH? What is the difference between calling it tan or gold?

It's heartbreaking to think she could have turned him in before he killed the next 10 girls.

 

[moonlessnight]

Ted Bundy's gf actually reported him to police multiple times early on and they told her it wasn't him, not to worry.

Yes, I think they could rationalise away the suspicion.

Here is a frustrating example. Just saw this again in the Ted Bundy documentary on Oxygen.

Bundy tried kidnapping a girl and she actually got away from him, as he was driving her into the woods, to kill her. She knew his name was Ted and drove a tan VW Bug, and was a student at the local college and she helped them draw a picture of him.

His picture was plastered all over the news, and reports that he was a college student named Ted, who drove a tan VW Bug.

Ted's girlfriend and her friend were suspicious of him when they heard that news. Obviously. And they were going to call the police. BUT THEN Ted's girlfriend looked at the news article, and it said he drove a 'gold' VW Bug. SO SHE RATIONALIZED AWAY HER FEARS---wrong color, his bug is tan, not gold----WTH? What is the difference between calling it tan or gold?

It's heartbreaking to think she could have turned him in before he killed the next 10 girls.

 

[katydid23]

Ted Bundy's gf actually reported him to police multiple times early on and they told her it wasn't him, not to worry.

I think that was his long time girlfriend. And yes, they said 'don't worry your pretty little heAd...'


Here's that story with that girlfriend, who reported him so many times:
5 Horrible Mistakes That Let Serial Killers Go Free | Cracked.com

 

[Sheila Terranova]

so..what do we think we know...that's factually wrong??
Do we know one of them survived the night and Libby pay was hurt worse? Reference please? Thank you!


maybe if we work in reverse we can establish a picture LE have we didn't see before.

-BG was alone
-BG marched them down the hill and across the river.
- one of the girls survived the night.
-libby was hurt worse than abby.
-BG was a random predator.
-BG lured the girls there via the internet.
-BG was behind the girls and raced quickly to them.

what else?

moo

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I’m not sure if anyone is aware of his crimes or not. If he took a trip to hunt like some SKs do, and if his family, etc. haven’t seen any media on the case, then someone might not know.

Exactly. Often when killers are arrested people are shocked and say what a nice man he was. My father was a detective ( deputy chief) and he said if everybody had kept their mouths shut no one would ever have been arrested. That was back in the fifties.

 

[k-mac]

can only see a part of your post @Sheila Terranova
there are no links for my opinion only. (moo)
my post was exposing things that post regularly around here but have zero basis of confirmation.


which highlights holemans statement everything out there is wrong.

moo

 

[Tiger Stripes]

very likely. But if this dude was able to persuade the police that he was an upstanding citizen, initially, probably, the family member did not believe it. Or chose not to.

Now, I think, he/she understands the degree of madness the perp has, but first, it is a close relative, and second, there is fear of him.

Dear @Charlot123,

Yes: Deep, profound, and absolute...fear!

What if... (just putting this "out there" -- perhaps just wild, but... there do seem to be a few other cases here on WS that have semi-"wild" aspects to them)...

• the person responsible for taking Abby's and Libby's lives is well-known in the area?
• that same individual is not only well-known, but the least-likely suspected individual in town/the area?
• the least-likely suspected individual works in a "highly esteemed" occupation (i. e., helping others, providing goods/services that seem as far removed as night is from day from a double homicide)?
• the person who committed this crime has mental health issues of which few individuals have knowledge (other than his immediate family/personal therapist -- who would be protected by HIPAA)?
• the person who did this horrible deed has access to family/friends whose high net worth who can instantly cover "big dog" attorney fees (say, criminal lawyers in Indy or Chicago) -- including the possibility of filing for slander against any LE department who might make a move? (This is so scary a possibility, I hate to even consider it, but...)
• the person who has done these evil things has been checking WS regularly to find "new" ways to obstruct justice/think of yet more alibis? (another horrible thing to consider, but...)

I'm totally "in" with everyone here who believes that justice will be served for Abby and Libby. Just eager to see it happen... but continuing to posit possibilities while in the "holding pattern". There is always hope! (nods to a well-known WS member for that great concept! )

 

[Torch Carrier]

Really the only things we the public don’t know that is important is if there was SA, cause of death and what is on the full recording and I don’t know how knowing these will help Joe public on the street identity him. LE are not releasing the information because they don’t want false confessions or cause harm to the investigation. It is frustrating we don’t have all the information but we need to trust law enforcement and their reasons why. The third anniversary in February might possibly bring a change in tactics from LE we will see what happens.

Whaaaaaaaaat? Third anniversary???? In February?????! No no no no no, my friend, I believe will have an arrest before the year is out. February 2020? IMHO well before then.

 

[TL4S]

There's a chance the offender's parents are in denial, hovering in a purgatory of hope, doubt, and dread. Has someone recognized their son on the bridge? He said he didn't commit the murders and they took him for his word that he was instead sleeping late, into the early afternoon. Rationalization and rumination.

Maybe they're caught in that position of forcing themselves to believe an explanation that was given because it's simply not within their psychological capabilities to confront the truth.

If they know, history will be kinder if they come forward. Easier said than done, perhaps? It's hard to decide without making too many assumptions.

I can see this happening. Likewise, I can see a wife who suspects her husband but they have children and she can't bring herself to turn her and her children's lives upside down.

Or a sibling who doesn't want to torture their parents with this kind of pain. Maybe there's already been family pain, illness, or death.

Or a friend who's afraid of the repercussions of his own knowledge or involvement. Or who's afraid of BG's retribution.

There are endless possibilities, unfortunately. At this point I suspect fear over any other motive for not coming forward, as Carter has also stated.

 

[TL4S]

can only see a part of your post @Sheila Terranova
there are no links for my opinion only. (moo)
my post was exposing things that post regularly around here but have zero basis of confirmation.


which highlights holemans statement everything out there is wrong.

moo

I agree with you and am glad you brought up the subject. So many people think LE is trying to deceive us. I don't understand that. No matter how many links are posted with direct statements, interviews, or clarifications from LE, many people still dismiss them as cryptic, misstated, or flat out lies.

Yes, LE has made some conflicting and confusing comments, I'll admit. But I don't think they really care what theories are going around in public. They have the facts, and it's their job to protect those facts. So if they say the reenactments are wrong, the reenactments are probably wrong. Even minor details being wrong makes them wrong. JMO

I've said it before, but I feel strongly that if we discount the information that LE gives us, especially if it's because it conflicts with our own personal theories, than we're left only with rumors, and I'm not okay with that.

 

[FreshEyes]

can only see a part of your post @Sheila Terranova
there are no links for my opinion only. (moo)
my post was exposing things that post regularly around here but have zero basis of confirmation.

which highlights holemans statement everything out there is wrong.

moo

i don’t think Holeman was being completely honest. There is probably lots that is accurate. He was trying to cast doubt to stop the web sleuths .
- only my opinion

 

[rainwaterstill]

I have often wondered why he has stopped although the last two and a 1/2 years have felt like an eternity to us it really isn’t that long a time period. I think he probably wants to attack and kill again but doesn’t want to chance his luck right now and/or the right opportunity has not presented itself again.

In regards to being recorded by Liberty it was probably a shock to him but he might feel the released image of him is so poor and unrecognisable he got lucky. Possibly being recorded must be a concern for these monsters though because it isn’t enough to just smash a phone up or dispose of it if the victim is on social media/FaceTime or taking photos/video immediately prior to being attacked and they are being saved to iCloud snapchat apps etc.

MOO and MOO only- He may not have stopped. He may have killed in (another) other state(s), but changed his method.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I agree with you and am glad you brought up the subject. So many people think LE is trying to deceive us. I don't understand that. No matter how many links are posted with direct statements, interviews, or clarifications from LE, many people still dismiss them as cryptic, misstated, or flat out lies.

Yes, LE has made some conflicting and confusing comments, I'll admit. But I don't think they really care what theories are going around in public. They have the facts, and it's their job to protect those facts. So if they say the reenactments are wrong, the reenactments are probably wrong. Even minor details being wrong makes them wrong. JMO

I've said it before, but I feel strongly that if we discount the information that LE gives us, especially if it's because it conflicts with our own personal theories, than we're left only with rumors, and I'm not okay with that.

I agree with both of you.

 

[tresir2012]

It's also possible, I suppose, that he has committed murder since. Somewhere else, somehow not connected.

I think he has killed on two more occasions. Killing the two girls has made him think nothing about the further murders he has committed. MOO

 

[JDough]

Has anyone tried to "unblur" the YBG image? Here's a concept of what the offender could look like in focus.

Sorry for the late post- just catching up!

I have often wondered if BG had some type of stocking (pantyhose) over his head and face. I know we have all studied the videos and photos that have come out multiple times. No matter how clear some of them appear to be, I can't get past the fact that his hair always looks "smooshed", and his face distorted. I know we all see things differently- this is just what my eyes see!

 

[155etta]

Sorry for the late post- just catching up!

I have often wondered if BG had some type of stocking (pantyhose) over his head and face. I know we have all studied the videos and photos that have come out multiple times. No matter how clear some of them appear to be, I can't get past the fact that his hair always looks "smooshed", and his face distorted. I know we all see things differently- this is just what my eyes see!

Well that would be a good reason to start videoing him.

 

[JnRyan]

i don’t think Holeman was being completely honest. There is probably lots that is accurate. He was trying to cast doubt to stop the web sleuths .
- only my opinion

You're not alone in your opinion. Between some of these YouTube videos there may be bit and pieces that is very close to the actual events.

 

[JnRyan]

MOO and MOO only- He may not have stopped. He may have killed in (another) other state(s), but changed his method.

Look at Robert Brashears. He raped and murdered 28 yo Jenny Zitricki in her home in 1990 in SC. Then he raped and murdered a 12 yo girl in MO in 1998. In between he raped a 14 yo girl in TN, but didn't kill her. About the only constant was a home invasion, but the victims and locations changed. I believe this is BG's first time to commit murder. BUT could BG have assaulted an older female in the past somewhere else? It's possible.