Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

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Why hasn't he killed again? Do you think he has killed again?
I think he may have. I think he may be in jail for that already but JMO.
Rahmer, I'm in the same situation as you (minus the German part) and recently joined. Webslueths is confusing! I figured out if you go to the first page of the thread/first post it will have a link near the bottom of the first post to the scanner thread. The scanner thread is about activity from the police scanner/radio. Here is a direct link - https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-scanner-thread.333467/
Please remember scanner thread is for posting scanner chatter only and discussion about the scanner chatter should be in parentheses. (like this) to distinguish it from scanner content. Discussion about non scanner chatter is not allowed. Also nothing from scanner thread is to be brought up here to the MT.
 
Rahmer, I'm in the same situation as you (minus the German part) and recently joined. Webslueths is confusing! I figured out if you go to the first page of the thread/first post it will have a link near the bottom of the first post to the scanner thread. The scanner thread is about activity from the police scanner/radio. Here is a direct link - https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-scanner-thread.333467/

Welcome @Mack Yarborough AND @rahmer-- Great to have you here brainstorming with us !!!
 
And doesn't that wording make it sound like whomever the driver was is secondary to the request? They needed a witness to the car between noon- 5 because the car can be matched to the driver and that will put him at the scene. Familial DNA can only put a family there at the murder scene, the car is the key to proving which one. Just thinking outloud.
I think LE KNOWS whose car it is ..just needs a witness to say,"YES, I saw that particular car on that day and during that time"
 
TY I did notice you had put the source originally after I posted but that is still not everyone IMO. I also am very reluctant to believe someone like Snowden.

This is a true story of mine from a month ago:

Recently, I found a Garmin GPS watch at a lake near my home. The watch was muddy and the power did not come on but it was in good shape. I ordered a charger for it and charged the watch. Then I downloaded the Garmin program off their website and synced the watch to the newly downloaded program on my computer.

In the workout calendar history of the watch was the GPS path on a Google map for all the places this person had run in 2019. They had been in California - six cities, Nevada, Florida, and London. This person had run ½ marathons and skied, so I knew they were quite athletic and they traveled. One of the places this person commonly initiated and ended runs was on a street a few miles from the lake where I found the watch. I then checked Spokeo, an on-line people search application.

In Spokeo, I could enter an address and see who the residents were in the homes. I entered two addresses in Spokeo for the two houses closest to the spot where the GPS map showed this runner started their runs from and got a couple of names. Spokeo also shows a picture if there is one matched from an on-line social media site like Facebook that they can link to the person.

The second address searched returned a picture of a man who was finishing a marathon. This man had parent’s that lived in Florida. Spokeo also provides emails and phone numbers so I called and left a message for the guy. He called me back and was happy that I had found his watch. He had lost the watch while wake boarding in July.

It took about five minutes to identify this stranger once I could view the watch data.
______________

Spokeo has changed their user interface and functionality from a five or so years ago. They removed the easy to view relationship map. They removed the user id search function. They reduced the social media search returns. Basically, they gutted and reduced the quality of the product available to the public. I'm sure that functionality is still available for use by the government and the private sector along with other integrated personal data.

Snowden risked his life to expose Constitutional privacy violations on a massive scale. His information forced Congress to pass laws that limit the mass collection of our data. More protections need to be put in place, but at least the American public were aware of the programs and lies made by NSA and CIA officials.

I love using data for good like returning a watch and finding criminals but that same data can be used to violate people's privacy. Once computers are networked like they are on the internet, it is quite easy for them to be compromised and remotely controlled and accessed. All data that streams to or from your computer on-line must go through servers. At any point during it's path to or from your device, the data can be intercepted and stored. Once a system is accessed, anything on it can be viewed unless it is encrypted, which very few people bother to do.

I tend to believe Snowden.
 
anna Williams 'thought we'd have this wrapped up by now' screams out to me its close and they know who.(likely the family dont know specifics but they been told its all good)
just applying that sentence myself I can not see how you could use it in the context of LE have no idea on who the perp is.
its kinda confident??
reading between the lines imo she is saying I cant believe they haven't arrested him yet with what they got.
anyone feel this interpretation?
or am I way off :p

moo

I felt the same way. It wasn’t necessarily just because of what she said, but more how she said it.

It’s a small town and people talk. I bet there was a lot of talk after the PC. I’d also bet quite a few people called in a “tip” on the same person or handful of people. Unfortunately it doesn’t appear that they’ve gotten a good enough tip - one that puts that person there that day.
 
I
Here's a senario, what if LE did ask Parabon Labs to see what they can come up with as far as a facial profile. What if that "snapshot" looked very similar to the earliest sketch done by a witness, that was disregarded because it looked very much like a person well-known who was discounted early in the investigation. I'm just surmising on one possible explanation. I know there are many others just as possible, or not.
I think this is a good brainstorm. But why wouldn’t they have just released the Parabon image? That would certainly be so much better than the relatively simplistic young BG sketch they put out there. Are there rules and laws around when and how they can release Parabon images?


MOO.
 
For those who think the BG in the video has no hat, (I am one who believes he has no hat and has straight brown hair), how do you reconcile that hair with the hair in the latest ISP sketch?

And while looking at the 47 or 48 frames, on frame #27 and partially on 28 there is a vertical object on the left that appears, what have y'all determined that might be?

Lastly, I think the murderer is known to the police, known in the Delphi community, and was known by the victims, just MHO :)
 
This is a true story of mine from a month ago:

Recently, I found a Garmin GPS watch at a lake near my home. The watch was muddy and the power did not come on but it was in good shape. I ordered a charger for it and charged the watch. Then I downloaded the Garmin program off their website and synced the watch to the newly downloaded program on my computer.

In the workout calendar history of the watch was the GPS path on a Google map for all the places this person had run in 2019. They had been in California - six cities, Nevada, Florida, and London. This person had run ½ marathons and skied, so I knew they were quite athletic and they traveled. One of the places this person commonly initiated and ended runs was on a street a few miles from the lake where I found the watch. I then checked Spokeo, an on-line people search application.

In Spokeo, I could enter an address and see who the residents were in the homes. I entered two addresses in Spokeo for the two houses closest to the spot where the GPS map showed this runner started their runs from and got a couple of names. Spokeo also shows a picture if there is one matched from an on-line social media site like Facebook that they can link to the person.

The second address searched returned a picture of a man who was finishing a marathon. This man had parent’s that lived in Florida. Spokeo also provides emails and phone numbers so I called and left a message for the guy. He called me back and was happy that I had found his watch. He had lost the watch while wake boarding in July.

It took about five minutes to identify this stranger once I could view the watch data.
______________

Spokeo has changed their user interface and functionality from a five or so years ago. They removed the easy to view relationship map. They removed the user id search function. They reduced the social media search
returns. Basically, they gutted and reduced the quality of the product available to the public. I'm sure that functionality is still available for use by the government and the private sector along with other integrated personal data.

Snowden risked his life to expose Constitutional privacy violations on a massive scale. His information forced Congress to pass laws that limit the mass collection of our data. More protections need to be put in place, but at least the American public were aware of the programs and lies made by NSA and CIA officials.

I love using data for good like returning a watch and finding criminals but that same data can be used to violate people's privacy. Once computers are networked like they are on the internet, it is quite easy for them to be compromised and remotely controlled and accessed. All data that streams to or from your computer on-line must go through servers. At any point during it's path to or from your device, the data can be intercepted and stored. Once a system is accessed, anything on it can be viewed unless it is encrypted, which very few people bother to do.

I tend to believe Snowden.

I understand and the sleuthing and tracing capabilities of the internet are used by us WSers daily. I am in the UK but can find someones address, phone number and relatives in the states at the click of a button. So can advertisers. Why therefore shouldn't governments have this data too? This is not the forum to discuss this - Snowden may well have his own thread on here. I still do not believe everyone has viewed *advertiser censored* on the internet. But TYVM for taking time to respond. Back to Abby and Libby.
 
I go back and forth with this. One day (minute) I think LE knows, then next day or minute, I think they do not have a clue**
Depends on which day it is :p
but I keep the Hope alive as the families have been keeping HOPE alive.
KEEPING the hope alive is the one thing we all can do! :)

NEVER LOSING hope has gotten us all to thread 115!;)

I keep imagining the day that LE gets 'that one tip' they have been waiting for.

How the person who takes that call will get the 'this is it' feeling....how elated they all will be to finally bring this nightmare to an end with an arrest.

C'mon....if that tipster is here....MAKE THAT CALL!!!
Today is the day.

JMO
 
I

I think this is a good brainstorm. But why wouldn’t they have just released the Parabon image? That would certainly be so much better than the relatively simplistic young BG sketch they put out there. Are there rules and laws around when and how they can release Parabon images?


MOO.
I think that Parabon technology uses many different coded genes, in many different locations, to figure out facial biometics. A partial DNA profile might not have been enough to make a full snapshot? Maybe there were enough similarities and the familial research lead to a family that the males favored that NBG sketch and whatever Parabon generated? They decide, let's go with the witness generated sketch, have people tip on who they think it is using information of an eyewitness.

I don't think DNA generated sketches would be any different than witness generated sketches in being released to catch a criminal but probably much different in a courtroom to prosecute and convict.
 
For those who think the BG in the video has no hat, (I am one who believes he has no hat and has straight brown hair), how do you reconcile that hair with the hair in the latest ISP sketch?

And while looking at the 47 or 48 frames, on frame #27 and partially on 28 there is a vertical object on the left that appears, what have y'all determined that might be?

Lastly, I think the murderer is known to the police, known in the Delphi community, and was known by the victims, just MHO :)

I’m assuming the person that made the sketch saw him afterwards and I would think he’d be kind of sweaty at that point. If he has the haircut I think he has those bangs would be sticking to his forehead and they would feel and look weird. I figured he just pushed them back which would look kind of like the hair style in the sketch. He might also have some wave/body which would come out if his hair got wet with sweat. JMo

I’ve seen the individual frames, but I don’t remember any one of them individually. I’ll take another look. I saw first the hair when they played the video.

Edit: I agree with your last statement.
 
I often wonder if that vehicle in the CPS lot belonged to a potential witness. But then I ask myself: Why park it there? Did the other lots not have many spaces left? If that was the case LE should have a greater chance of finding a person who saw this killer. Did the person park it there so they wouldn't be seen in usual parking places and therefore be associated with the trail that day? If I were an investigator that possibility would make me very curious. Of course, it could have been a new vehicle and the owner would want to park their vehicle where it would be less likely to get dinged by the door of another vehicle. In any event, this person has some familiarity with the trail and surrounding areas to know they could park there and walk to the trails.

Dear @JnRyan,

Great thinking!

The car puzzles me to no end.

Now if the driver of the car is a potential witness (and that is possible)- then why would it take so long for them to contact the police? And did they contact them?

It is possible that this person, knowing that BG is still out there - that they didn't want to get involved in any way because of fear. I can certainly see that but there is always the option to call Crimestoppers or send a note anonymously.But fear is a heavy emotion and is ingrained within our survival instincts.

Whoever parked the car there that afternoon had a reason to do so. It was a successful move because there didn't seem to be any information forthcoming about it to the police. Perhaps some information was received but it doesn't seem that it was. This could be the piece of the puzzle the investigators need.

I certainly agree with your thought that the main reason could have been that it wouldn't be "associated" with the trail.

I wonder if that person parked there before - perhaps to scout around or observe - perhaps even to plan how they could stealthly do this horrid crime. Just a few thoughts. JMO
 
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Why hasn't he killed again? Do you think he has killed again?

Assuming BG hasn't killed again, I think there are many possible reasons:

If BG is a serial killer then he may be in a 'cooling off period'. After a murder a serial killer will often revert back to his 'normal' life. It can last days, months, or years before the urge to kill again becomes overwhelming. This fits with the info released at the presser which states something to the effect that BG is hiding in plain sight.

Another reason he may not have killed again could be because of the intense media pressure. Since seeing his face 'revealed' at the April presser he might be being very mindful of his behaviour and demeanour so as not to attract suspicion in a small community and/or secretly getting a thrill out of being hunted by LE. Perhaps pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, and evading LE is satisfying his sick urges. This would lead one to infer that he is not disorganized or impulsive, but rather very much in control of himself.

Whatever variable(s) triggered the murders may no longer be an influence in his life. For example, if a bad breakup with a girlfriend triggered the attack, but he has since gotten happily married, he may not ever kill again. Or if the stress of unemployment was a trigger for the murders, but he has since found a steady job, he may not ever kill again. Or he may have been on drugs at the time of the murders, but has since gone through rehab and gotten sober.

If Libby and Abby's murders were targeted, and not random, then he may not have any reason to kill again. Didn't LE seem to imply that the community is not in danger?

Maybe BG didn't wan't to kill the girls...his plan may have been to assault but not murder. Things went astray when the girls fought or ran. The murders may have only served the purpose of silencing the witnesses. He may not have enjoyed that part of the attack. He might even have some regret or remorse. Didn't DC appeal to some remaining consicience?

JMO and ideas.
 
Assuming BG hasn't killed again, I think there are many possible reasons:

If BG is a serial killer then he may be in a 'cooling off period'. After a murder a serial killer will often revert back to his 'normal' life. It can last days, months, or years before the urge to kill again becomes overwhelming. This fits with the info released at the presser which states something to the effect that BG is hiding in plain sight.

Another reason he may not have killed again could be because of the intense media pressure. Since seeing his face 'revealed' at the April presser he might be being very mindful of his behaviour and demeanour so as not to attract suspicion in a small community and/or secretly getting a thrill out of being hunted by LE. Perhaps pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, and evading LE is satisfying his sick urges. This would lead one to infer that he is not disorganized or impulsive, but rather very much in control of himself.

Whatever variable(s) triggered the murders may no longer be an influence in his life. For example, if a bad breakup with a girlfriend triggered the attack, but he has since gotten happily married, he may not ever kill again. Or if the stress of unemployment was a trigger for the murders, but he has since found a steady job, he may not ever kill again. Or he may have been on drugs at the time of the murders, but has since gone through rehab and gotten sober.

If Libby and Abby's murders were targeted, and not random, then he may not have any reason to kill again. Didn't LE seem to imply that the community is not in danger?

Maybe BG didn't wan't to kill the girls...his plan may have been to assault but not murder. Things went astray when the girls fought or ran. The murders may have only served the purpose of silencing the witnesses. He may not have enjoyed that part of the attack. He might even have some regret or remorse. Didn't DC appeal to some remaining consicience?

JMO and ideas.
^^^^Excellent Post! ^^^^
 
Does anyone think that maybe a family member suspects who did it and is keeping quiet?

very likely. But if this dude was able to persuade the police that he was an upstanding citizen, initially, probably, the family member did not believe it. Or chose not to.

Now, I think, he/she understands the degree of madness the perp has, but first, it is a close relative, and second, there is fear of him.
 
That "one tip" may already have come in perhaps... but a second good tip wouldn't hurt, either, and LE may be in no big hurry, espec if they feel the girls were targeted (as do I).

LE may be just shoring things up, their eye on assuring a conviction rather than arresting prematurely if they still have evidence being tested ("we are just now beginning") or if they are waiting for some personal alliances to break down in order to get someone (or a group of people?) to break down and talk.

Something stunning happened to bring about that 4/22 PC.

Rather than feel dismayed to see NBG's face (the sketch) I see it as a major breakthrough. Someone LIED to LE. They KNOW that now.

I think the car request is, as someone else suggested here, a means to ascertain which specific males were in the vicinity of the suspect vehicle that day at that time... to help in narrowing things down from a wider group of suspects certain evidentiary results may have handed them.

I think the vehicle carried BG and one other person. Maybe that person hung out while BG was with the girls. It wasn't supposed to end this way, IMO. Now this "other person" (NBG) is afraid to OUT BG. The NBG sketch may be of this other person (who was seen by someone in the vicinity of the car that day) ... this person may have been indirectly "responsible for the murders" ... yet is not himself BG.

LE may have lied when they said NBG sketch is the person on bridge with girls, to prompt BG to act (in order to protect NBG, whom BG knows was not on bridge). Maybe they are not really the same person, it's instead a ruse LE is using to force BG to talk or act?


Maybe BG was there to intercept the girls for some reason and things got way out of hand. Maybe girls knew sonething. Or maybe something had happened between one of the girls and "the other person" (NBG) such as (an example only!) an earlier SA or physical contact, something along those lines... so BG was trying to "fix" it but was too forceful, girls fought back, injury occurred, BG then felt he had to finish things off, and did so.

BG is not only a murderer but a coward who is letting NBG stand in as the "face" of the killer when NBG is not really the killer at all. I think LE is trying to work on BG's protective instinct toward NBG by using NBG as a fall guy but so far the cowardly BG is still not talking.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
 
he may have. I doubt he has done another double murder, but if the POI travels the country a lot, he could have killed someone who is reported as missing (such as endangered missing or at high risk of trafficking) but not yet found deceased. It could be a teen or even a younger child. he's too much of a coward to try an adult, like Austin Sigg.

Why hasn't he killed again? Do you think he has killed again?
 
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