Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[Falling Down]

if he is no older than say 35, it gives you a good 15 or more years of other crimes he could be connected to? wonder if they can connect any dots, and what they are holding back ... Again, I cannot stress enough the danger to the community that this person is probably on the loose and can strike again at any time, a vicious murderer
of little girls. mOO

I've looked closely at what might be similar crimes going back 20-25 years in IN and nearby states. These types of crimes are rare, to say the least. Murders in broad daylight on walking/hiking trails are rare enough, a set of crimes involving the murders of two juveniles on or near a trail in broad daylight is rarer, still. Usually outdoor daylight abductions in rural areas happen along roadways, again, even those are rare.

This is an extremely dangerous individual, and I often wonder what other crimes he has done and/or may be be capable of. If he's targeted people on trails in the region, he must be familiar with those trails and how those trails benefit his quickly getting on to and off of them to commit his crimes.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

The white rope looking thing almost resembles a “slip Knot”. I was thinking a “rescue hook” as seem at swim pools.

I believe it's something along those lines, a tool of some sort that could be put around a neck to control and possibly even to kill. Something easy to cinch up and won't come loose unless some effort is made to loosen it.

It's not a bag, it's more 3-dimensional than that and doesn't move much in the video.

JMO

 

[x_files]

I have 2 ppl in mind.

They look a lot like the sketch.

I do as well, but not named official suspects by LE (yet). Father and son.

 

[carbuff]

I've looked closely at what might be similar crimes going back 20-25 years in IN and nearby states. These types of crimes are rare, to say the least. Murders in broad daylight on walking/hiking trails are rare enough, a set of crimes involving the murders of two juveniles on or near a trail in broad daylight is rarer, still. Usually outdoor daylight abductions in rural areas happen along roadways, again, even those are rare.

This is an extremely dangerous individual, and I often wonder what other crimes he has done and/or may be be capable of. If he's targeted people on trails in the region, he must be familiar with those trails and how those trails benefit his quickly getting on to and off of them to commit his crimes.

JMO

Murders on walking trails and in parks are rare, but rapes are much more common. Maybe a serial rapist who escalated?

 

[Falling Down]

Murders on walking trails and in parks are rare, but rapes are much more common. Maybe a serial rapist who escalated?

Thanks I forgot to mention that maybe BG's MO has changed/evolved.

The Bike Path Rapist in Buffalo comes to mind.

 

[Boxer]

That one vid posted up in the last page or so, it brings up the idea that this killer has no prior record. IMO, this would be quite possible for several reasons, and a possible reason why the low life has yet to be caught.

Also Indiana only collected DNA for felony convictions before last year. And is very liberal dealing down conviction catagories.

 

[Boxer]

I've looked closely at what might be similar crimes going back 20-25 years in IN and nearby states. These types of crimes are rare, to say the least. Murders in broad daylight on walking/hiking trails are rare enough, a set of crimes involving the murders of two juveniles on or near a trail in broad daylight is rarer, still. Usually outdoor daylight abductions in rural areas happen along roadways, again, even those are rare.

This is an extremely dangerous individual, and I often wonder what other crimes he has done and/or may be be capable of. If he's targeted people on trails in the region, he must be familiar with those trails and how those trails benefit his quickly getting on to and off of them to commit his crimes.

JMO

If girls targeted for a reason, maybe no other crime against girls/young women will happen.

But MOO the killer is fixing his "problem" whether that is revenge, hurt the family or a juat a. need to dominate and or terrify others by violence MOO that aspect will remain.

So, the look of his other crimes, if he commits them could be very different, but MOO the motivation will be the same or very similar.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

We have what LE has given us, beyond that, we have speculation. How accurate can speculation be?

Anyway, MOO.

This killer (and I still believe there could be more than one person involved) appears to have arrived on the scene prepared to murder. He also appears to have had the skill set necessary to murder and leave little trace.

(SBM)

Did they know the killer(s)?

Local
20's/30's
Athletic
Organized
Efficient
Detailed
Learned
Charming

A killer with a specific purpose that day, IMHO.

Adding a few questions of my own to @stattlich1's:

* So... did someone have a reason to exact revenge, and in such a horrific way?
* If so, who in Delphi/very near Delphi *knows* of individuals with a "chip on the shoulder" to the point that they would be willing to actually take another person's *life* -- and (in this case) the lives of *two* individuals, who may have had absolutely nothing directly to do with the need for revenge? (All JMOO; entirely speculative)
* Was this a murder-for-hire?
* Is there someone in the area/connected to the area who felt *so* strongly the need to get revenge, that they actually hired a "professional" to do their dirty work? (Perhaps this would explain many of our questions re: Why there is little DNA at the CS, Why there is little to no tangible evidence, etc.)
* How many such individuals (who would be "professional" at killing other human beings) might live in/very near Delphi?
* How many/what percentage of individuals who live in Delphi have direct links to someone currently or recently incarcerated? (Many -- not "all", of course -- who are incarcerated have a burning anger toward others who may have been responsible/partly responsible for their incarceration; they then offer cash payments to fellow prisoners who are scheduled for release, that their soon-to-be-free fellow inmates would do the murderous work, all for cash...)

Just a few questions, and with no knowledge of anyone who may fit some/all of those categories in Delphi or towns very near to Delphi. MOO

At the very least, it would clearly explain the virtually "neat" aspects of the crime and of the CS.

ETA: I hate to even *think*, much more to even *write*, anything like this. Yet there are such individuals in this world who have set their hearts on "revenge at any cost". My heart aches to even think this way, yet... such is the criminal mindset (as well as the mindset of those who have never learned the deep and costly act of true forgiveness -- all just MOO here).

 

[Evinrude]

I

Adding a few questions of my own to @stattlich1's:

* So... did someone have a reason to exact revenge, and in such a horrific way?
* If so, who in Delphi/very near Delphi *knows* of individuals with a "chip on the shoulder" to the point that they would be willing to actually take another person's *life* -- and (in this case) the lives of *two* individuals, who may have had absolutely nothing directly to do with the need for revenge? (All JMOO; entirely speculative)
* Was this a murder-for-hire?
* Is there someone in the area/connected to the area who felt *so* strongly the need to get revenge, that they actually hired a "professional" to do their dirty work? (Perhaps this would explain many of our questions re: Why there is little DNA at the CS, Why there is little to no tangible evidence, etc.)
* How many such individuals (who would be "professional" at killing other human beings) might live in/very near Delphi?
* How many/what percentage of individuals who live in Delphi have direct links to someone currently or recently incarcerated? (Many -- not "all", of course -- who are incarcerated have a burning anger toward others who may have been responsible/partly responsible for their incarceration; they then offer cash payments to fellow prisoners who are scheduled for release, that their soon-to-be-free fellow inmates would do the murderous work, all for cash...)

Just a few questions, and with no knowledge of anyone who may fit some/all of those categories in Delphi or towns very near to Delphi. MOO

At the very least, it would clearly explain the virtually "neat" aspects of the crime and of the CS.

ETA: I hate to even *think*, much more to even *write*, anything like this. Yet there are such individuals in this world who have set their hearts on "revenge at any cost". My heart aches to even think this way, yet... such is the criminal mindset (as well as the mindset of those who have never learned the deep and costly act of true forgiveness -- all just MOO here).

I have a phonebook and looked of “hitman” for the Delphi and immediate area. I found nothing for that area. Makes me think it wasnt hired out.

 

[stattlich1]

It's not a bag, it's more 3-dimensional than that and doesn't move much in the video.
JMO

duffel bag string?

 

[iluvmua]

I do as well, but not named official suspects by LE (yet). Father and son.

Yep. Same

 

[margarita25]

The white rope looking thing almost resembles a “slip Knot”. I was thinking a “rescue hook” as seem at swim pools.

Yes, similar rope, moo.

 

[Thelastleg]

I hope this ok. If not I'll delete.

Perfect thank you. Its just something to do with EU restricions

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I'd like to see that bank in person. They would have had to cross the creek in an area that was easy to scale or walk up the other side.

This is the best I can do. Here is another day of discovery photo from the same guy who took photo #5. Same area and obviously the same time frame. Perhaps more of a close up:

Imgur

These are photos from my recent visit. I took quite a few of the opposite bank because obviously that's a key variable. In the first photo you can see that depending on the angle it doesn't look particularly daunting from the opposite side at ground level, just after emerging from the woods. This is looking left (downstream) :

Imgur

But once toward the middle of the creek and different angles the 3-5 foot bank is obvious:

Imgur
Imgur
Imgur

This last one is taken from further downstream. Bodies were found at left. I was trying to capture several aspects in this phot0...the approximate elevation dropoff from bridge level (right) to creek level, the potential view the home beyond the barrier may have had toward the crime scene area, and the quick ascent required on the far bank (left). The home beyond the barrier with the big open field would be straight ahead in the upper center of the photo. Not visible. Home is tucked along the edge of their property overlooking Deer Creek. End of bridge is approximately 2:30 on a clock face in relationship to right side of photo, and up the hill roughly same level as top right. End of bridge is maybe 300 yards from where I took this photo, if I had to estimate. I have no idea where this half mile nonsense comes from.

Imgur

 

[Boxer]

This is the best I can do. Here is another day of discovery photo from the same guy who took photo #5. Same area and obviously the same time frame. Perhaps more of a close up:

Imgur

These are photos from my recent visit. I took quite a few of the opposite bank because obviously that's a key variable. In the first photo you can see that depending on the angle it doesn't look particularly daunting from the opposite side at ground level, just after emerging from the woods. This is looking left (downstream) :

Imgur

But once toward the middle of the creek and different angles the 3-5 foot bank is obvious:

Imgur
Imgur
Imgur

This last one is taken from further downstream. Bodies were found at left. I was trying to capture several aspects in this phot0...the approximate elevation dropoff from bridge level (right) to creek level, the potential view the home beyond the barrier may have had toward the crime scene area, and the quick ascent required on the far bank (left). The home beyond the barrier with the big open field would be straight ahead in the upper center of the photo. Not visible. Home is tucked along the edge of their property overlooking Deer Creek. End of bridge is approximately 2:30 on a clock face in relationship to right side of photo, and up the hill roughly same level as top right. End of bridge is maybe 300 yards from where I took this photo, if I had to estimate. I have no idea where this half mile nonsense comes from.

Imgur

Terrific - thanks.
From what you saw if a human being wad threatened wouls they have the impulse to run for it over the sand bar to that enbankment?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I took a look at the video of BG that is posted on the sheriff office facebook page. It is the only video they have posted. It seems different to me...particularly the head movement.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=660204581098179

Also a cryptic (or I should say ominous?) note posted by somebody friended there.

Thank you for posting this. There are 173 comments, which I read most of... I'm mystified by your comment.

A number of people have suggested BG was turning to the left to get the girls but I've always had a problem with that. By GH's estimation, BG was 60' away; the railroad tracks are only ~ 8' wide. IMO, if he really was turning to the left, it was not to grab the girls.

In the above video, at the 12:45mm, the fellow depicting BG comes straight down the tracks at them. No turning is necessary.

 

[Boxer]

duffel bag string?

To me it look like the handle of a white plastic shopping bag, which can be used as a bag or for tying.

 

[Boxer]

Thank you for posting this. There are 173 comments, which I read most of... I'm mystified by your comment.

A number of people have suggested BG was turning to the left to get the girls but I've always had a problem with that. By GH's estimation, BG was 60' away; the railroad tracks are only ~ 8' wide. IMO, if he really was turning to the left, it was not to grab the girls.

In the above video, at the 12:45mm, the fellow depicting BG comes straight down the tracks at them. No turning is necessary.

 

[Evinrude]

I know what im going to say has been discussed at some point, if BG was in the water at all, he would have possibly been exposes to hypothermia. Cold water like that would lower the bodies core temperature very fast and also possibly had feet/ankle cramps. No way he can walk normal after that with wet shoes/boots. Or did he waiters? Sp. or maybe he didnt go in the water.
who can be our “crash test dummy” and simulate this for our WS community?

i cannot as it is well below zero where my frigid cave is.

 

[stattlich1]

Thanks Awsi, your trip there, photos, and perspective are extremely valuable.

I shudder at the thought, these girls, likely in flight, desperate to scale that bank. Unless they crossed elsewhere. Or not at all.

carry on.