Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[StarryStarryNight]

LE clearly stated the killer is from Delphi, and/or visited Delphi.

Why would LE lie about that? What would lead one to think the killer was not a local, meaning, living in Delphi or at minimum close by and having connections to the town, business, employment, or otherwise? Where does the idea the killer was a drifter passing through come from? What LE/ISP evidence revealed such?

MOO, based on the video posted right up front on this thread, it appears to me two perps, maybe more, have been alluded to, by LE.

Where did two sketches come from? Why are they so different? Why does the old sketch actually look like the BG, and the new sketch does not?

This old boy's eyes are not as good as they used to be, but I know what I see.

I’ll try answering some of these. My own thoughts of course.
1) I don’t think LE has lied about anything. They have however been very wrong about some things as evidenced by their “change in direction” press conference in April 2019.
2) I don’t know what would lead one to think the killer is not local but LE certainly thought that was a possibility for the first couple of years as their efforts were directed outside of Delphi with nationwide billboards and the like. One reason might have been because no one came forward locally to identify BG or claim almost $250,000 in reward money.
3) Very early on LE seemed to hint at the killer possibly being a drifter with little things like telling folks to try and remember if they had seen a duffle bag on the side of the road. Plus many felt BG seemed over dressed and wondered if that indicated he was wearing his wardrobe like a homeless person.
4) LE hasn’t released anything so the evidence reveals nothing. The biggest flaw of the investigation in my opinion.
5, 6,7) The two sketches, with no real explanation of why things switched, why LE ignored one for two years, etc just added more confusion to an already muddled situation.
My thoughts are that LE’s not releasing of any information...I’m not even talking evidence, just information in general...has led to ridiculous amounts of speculation. Which LE complains about. But yet they are the cause of it.

 

[JnRyan]

What's surprising is that they haven't been able to connect BG to any other murders. Maybe there's nothing identifiable about his m.o.
-
LE has assumed that BG was familiar with the terrain. But what if the girls were running away, and the location of the murders is just where BG happened to catch them (a possibility suggested in the Scene of the Crime podcast)? That would mean that the girls determined the location⁠—that they were the ones familiar with the terrain (where to cross the creek, etc.).

I tend to believe this is not a serial killer. I have no evidence to support that other than serial killers are not that common. However, I believe it is still possible he is a serial killer who has killed before and/or since. If he has abducted and killed single victims his MO is probably different in those cases. IOW, in order to control TWO victims and kill them he had to deviate from his preferred methods and possibly improvise. He may have had the urge to kill and been hunting for a single, isolated victim and finally decided that Abigail and Liberty were the best opportunity he was going to get. And the bridge limited their avenues of escape.

The girls dictated the location of the murders? An interesting scenario I had not considered.

 

[chaz]

The podcast was terrible to listen to. But the sound is excellent here: https://feeds.adknit.com/app-search/hln/down-the-hill-the-delphi-murders/all/720/100/ I've downloaded every episode to my mp3 player and binge-listened. Lots of information.

 

[Ozoner]

I tend to believe this is not a serial killer. I have no evidence to support that other than serial killers are not that common. However, I believe it is still possible he is a serial killer who has killed before and/or since. If he has abducted and killed single victims his MO is probably different in those cases. IOW, in order to control TWO victims and kill them he had to deviate from his preferred methods and possibly improvise. He may have had the urge to kill and been hunting for a single, isolated victim and finally decided that Abigail and Liberty were the best opportunity he was going to get. And the bridge limited their avenues of escape.

The girls dictated the location of the murders? An interesting scenario I had not considered.

I tend to think that he planned to kill, but maybe he only planned to abduct and rape. Maybe he killed the girls because he wasn't really prepared to manage two victims, and when they tried to get away, he realized that he had lost control. So maybe his previous crimes were abductions and rapes, not murders.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I’ll try answering some of these. My own thoughts of course.
1) I don’t think LE has lied about anything. They have however been very wrong about some things as evidenced by their “change in direction” press conference in April 2019.
2) I don’t know what would lead one to think the killer is not local but LE certainly thought that was a possibility for the first couple of years as their efforts were directed outside of Delphi with nationwide billboards and the like. One reason might have been because no one came forward locally to identify BG or claim almost $250,000 in reward money.
3) Very early on LE seemed to hint at the killer possibly being a drifter with little things like telling folks to try and remember if they had seen a duffle bag on the side of the road. Plus many felt BG seemed over dressed and wondered if that indicated he was wearing his wardrobe like a homeless person.
4) LE hasn’t released anything so the evidence reveals nothing. The biggest flaw of the investigation in my opinion.
5, 6,7) The two sketches, with no real explanation of why things switched, why LE ignored one for two years, etc just added more confusion to an already muddled situation.
My thoughts are that LE’s not releasing of any information...I’m not even talking evidence, just information in general...has led to ridiculous amounts of speculation. Which LE complains about. But yet they are the cause of it.

I believe, the only clearly hint by LE we have, is the new sketch and more they can't do for us (the public). They can't give away more, it seems. There maybe some exceptional reasons. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

From the link:

"Police said a person called 911 saying there was an unresponsive person on the ground outside a car."

If the coroner was then called, the person, I'm assuming, didn't make it.

If this is related to the upcoming anniversary of the murders, we'll hear about it, imo.

jmo

Delphi police investigate man's death at city park
The park is part of the city's historic trail system and is several miles away from the Monon High Bridge trail, which is associated with the Feb. 13, 2017, killing of teenagers Abby Williams and Libby German.

Carroll County Coroner Kristin Enoch said an autopsy will be performed on Tuesday.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Delphi police investigate man's death at city park
The park is part of the city's historic trail system and is several miles away from the Monon High Bridge trail, which is associated with the Feb. 13, 2017, killing of teenagers Abby Williams and Libby German.

Carroll County Coroner Kristin Enoch said an autopsy will be performed on Tuesday.

When I first saw this last night I thought not that the killer had struck again, but that maybe the killer had killed himself. I am 99% sure that’s not the case but I cling to hope most anywhere these days.

 

[Inthedetails]

When I first saw this last night I thought not that the killer had struck again, but that maybe the killer had killed himself. I am 99% sure that’s not the case but I cling to hope most anywhere these days.

That was my assumption too. And I made the assumption he shot himself. But that doesn't seem to be the case if they are going to do an autopsy.

So much for assumptions.

jmo

 

[TL4S]

When I first saw this last night I thought not that the killer had struck again, but that maybe the killer had killed himself. I am 99% sure that’s not the case but I cling to hope most anywhere these days.

I had the same thought. I'd really think it was related if it had taken place at the high bridge trailhead. It's most likely not, but strange timing.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm not sure what I hear, but one guess is "...just like we are right now, I know that - even from the first day, he stood right here..."

As if from the very first day DC got on the case, he felt BG had been at that intersection.

bbm
I was thinking about the wording. What, if DC and LE know the suspect, maybe they greeted him with a handshake at the entrance, maybe they heard his voice speaking to them (remember Leazenby and what he said about the voice!!) or they have seen a picture/video of the person, standing there at the entrance on February 13th. Maybe an "official person", maybe a so-called VIP, maybe a "searcher". Someone from a little bit "outside" (not quite "local"), well known via his name or his job or his look (WITHOUT disguise of course).

Do you think, that might have been meant with the wording?

It seems, DC has to remain cryptic, but tries to lead a witness to understand finally, whom they had seen around the MHB area, why and under which circumstances at all and to question themselves, if it still seems to be plausible.

 

[MingyMoo]

Post Of My Own No Response to Anyone.

2017 The murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. To this day I don't understand how two teenage girls were murdered in daylight just off a public trail. I really do not have any doubt in my own mind that the perpetrator knew the ins and outs of the trail the entrance and exit routes. We as the general public have been given the following.

• The snap chat photo of Abby
• The video and voice of the suspect
• A general time line

How the hell does no one recognise him?

As I watch CCTV footage of my husband walking on our premises in the UK. I know it is my husband. I cant see his face but I recognise his clothes, stance and demina, silhouette even in the dark.

Someone somewhere has to recognise the BG.

To that person that recognises BG please dig deep be brave and find it within yourself to talk to Law Enforcement. Get yourself a good nights sleep and move on.

Kind Regards and Humble Opinion
MingyMoo xx

Edited I need to add CCTV added to premises and we were testing it. I don't spy on my Husband. We were just checking it out.

 

[Cyprusg]

I’ll try answering some of these. My own thoughts of course.
1) I don’t think LE has lied about anything. They have however been very wrong about some things as evidenced by their “change in direction” press conference in April 2019.
2) I don’t know what would lead one to think the killer is not local but LE certainly thought that was a possibility for the first couple of years as their efforts were directed outside of Delphi with nationwide billboards and the like. One reason might have been because no one came forward locally to identify BG or claim almost $250,000 in reward money.
3) Very early on LE seemed to hint at the killer possibly being a drifter with little things like telling folks to try and remember if they had seen a duffle bag on the side of the road. Plus many felt BG seemed over dressed and wondered if that indicated he was wearing his wardrobe like a homeless person.
4) LE hasn’t released anything so the evidence reveals nothing. The biggest flaw of the investigation in my opinion.
5, 6,7) The two sketches, with no real explanation of why things switched, why LE ignored one for two years, etc just added more confusion to an already muddled situation.
My thoughts are that LE’s not releasing of any information...I’m not even talking evidence, just information in general...has led to ridiculous amounts of speculation. Which LE complains about. But yet they are the cause of it.

When my sister was assaulted randomly by a guy he wore almost exactly the same outfit... except he was black. When I saw the video of the guy that attacked my sister my first thought was that he was a contractor of some sort. 10-20 year old jeans, boots, grey sweatshirt, the kind of outfit you don't care about getting dirty. Turned out he was homeless. Just throwing that out there.

It's hard to discern much from someone's outfit when there's nothing necessarily unique about it other than the flat cap he was wearing. Which I still think is the most important visible clue to determine who this guy is. I don't live that far away from Delphi and I've maybe seen a handful of people in my entire life rock a flat cap and they've all been more fashion conscious.

 

[tresir2012]

I’m so thankful the girls’ thread has reopened, that Podcasts are being done to raise awareness, that John Walsh is finally involved, but I am most thankful that the girls were found & the families were able to lay them to rest.
We see so many cases where the missing are not found & their loved ones must go on without ever having their chance to say good-bye.
The girls were found. LE can & will find BG. There will be justice, we just can’t give in to time...no matter how long it takes, we have to believe & hope & keep talking & never grow silent. Their families haven’t given up & neither should we. That’s why we’re all here....

Very good thoughts! I wondered that too. What would an autopsy show that could connect PE (or anyone) to the girls murders? So curious to know what that could be. MOO

The only thing I could think was if he was a non secretor, for instance like the GSK. Or had a specific disease like a venereal disease or HIV or something.

 

[tresir2012]

The only sensible explanation I can come up for crossing the creek is BG needed privacy to do his deeds, and already had the spot picked out.

Good post.

JMO

In view of the prosecutor comments about the peculiar strangeness of the crime scene, do we think BG had prepared the scene beforehand to make it strange or that the prosecutor was referring to the way the girls were found? I almost got the impression it was like a sacrificial area or something. MOO.

 

[Inthedetails]

How the hell does no one recognise him?

As I watch CCTV footage of my husband walking on our premises in the UK. I know it is my husband. I cant see his face but I recognise his clothes, stance and demina, silhouette even in the dark.

Snipped.

I agree - I can recognize my husband at a distance, I know the way he walks, moves, and carries himself. I know his clothes.

But what if BG isn't married?

If my hunch is right, this guy is normal with a normal job, but doesn't have big social circle and doesn't have a spouse/family nearby....so there are few people to recognize him in a video. Plus, not everyone pays attention to the news - so that might narrow it even further who would recognize him. Maybe he works with people who wouldn't consider him as a suspect and who also don't follow the news closely.

I don't think he's a hermit, but I do think he is someone other people overlook or just assume is a quiet, normal, maybe boring guy.

jmo

 

[tresir2012]

While listening to scene of the crime unthinkable, there was a lady named Ana and she talked about a weird experience she had about a year before the Delphi murders. It went something like some creepy guy sitting in his car spoke with her. He stated something about you’re looking at me like you know me. The guy was warning her about unknown people and basically not to trust anyone. Something to that effect .

Does anyone recall hearing about the incident previously and/or has Ana ever stated the guy in the car looked similar to BG? Did she ever say what type of car he was in? TIA
I haven’t read everything on this thread so forgive me if this was already discussed.

I do remember it but cannot remember when that happened. There was an interview with Anna a few months back and am wondering if it was then?

 

[sleuther28]

This case is so depressing. 3 years go by and nothing new, no closer to solving than Day 1. My heart breaks for the families.

 

[carbuff]

Snipped.

I agree - I can recognize my husband at a distance, I know the way he walks, moves, and carries himself. I know his clothes.

But what if BG isn't married?

If my hunch is right, this guy is normal with a normal job, but doesn't have big social circle and doesn't have a spouse/family nearby....so there are few people to recognize him in a video. Plus, not everyone pays attention to the news - so that might narrow it even further who would recognize him. Maybe he works with people who wouldn't consider him as a suspect and who also don't follow the news closely.

I don't think he's a hermit, but I do think he is someone other people overlook or just assume is a quiet, normal, maybe boring guy.

jmo

Which is what I took the "hiding in plain sight" comment from the press conference to mean.

 

[Inthedetails]

Which is what I took the "hiding in plain sight" comment from the press conference to mean.

Yep.

jmo

 

[carbuff]

That was my assumption too. And I made the assumption he shot himself. But that doesn't seem to be the case if they are going to do an autopsy.

So much for assumptions.

jmo

I was picturing the same thing. But I think they'd do an autopsy anyway. It's the usual procedure for an unattended death and the obvious cause of death sometimes isn't so obvious. The person might have been shot to disable and then strangled to kill, for instance, or knocked out by a blow to the head and then shot into the body just to make sure they were dead.

I wonder how long it will take to hear something either way.