Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[stattlich1]

'I'm absolutely hopeful.' On anniversary of Delphi killings, community has faith next tip leads to justice

An interesting comment from Sheriff Tobe Leazenby when asked if having two sketches would indicate two people are involved. And his answer is, “We’re not sure about that,”

MOO I think LE always attempts to be careful to not reveal their hand in criminal cases. The vid posted up early in this thread, listen to it closely, and watch the backtracking when the comment is made about the two individuals involved. Words are interesting things. For example, just what does one mean when one says 'two people involved'? Does that mean involved in the planning, involved in a conspiracy, or involved in the actual murder of the two girls?

Plus, there are always serious implications to what is said on the record in terms of how all that plays out in any potential upcoming court case. So, plausible deniability appears to be what these LE guys are doing, and it can muddy things up and make things hard to understand for sure. MOO

 

[TL4S]

I don't rightly know...I understand, ISP Carter is human just like us all. It may just be his way of expressing himself, standing there and wishing that day had gone very different for the girls. He must think those trails are a comfortably known place to BG, that day and others.

I've listened several times and still can't tell exactly what he says there. I don't hear "in his first day." I almost wonder if DC is referring to himself - like "even from the first day" (of the case) he knew BG had stood right there. Wish it was clearer...

 

[carbuff]

I've listened several times and still can't tell exactly what he says there. I don't hear "in his first day." I almost wonder if DC is referring to himself - like "even from the first day" (of the case) he knew BG had stood right there. Wish it was clearer...

Whatever it is, he's not being factual at that point--he's speculating about emotions and motivations. I like that he's not an automaton, and he lets us see his emotions about the case, but sometimes he just adds to the confusion. I tend to discount most of it...

 

[heartgoesout]

I've listened several times and still can't tell exactly what he says there. I don't hear "in his first day." I almost wonder if DC is referring to himself - like "even from the first day" (of the case) he knew BG had stood right there. Wish it was clearer...

What do you hear?

 

[TL4S]

What do you hear?

I'm not sure what I hear, but one guess is "...just like we are right now, I know that - even from the first day, he stood right here..."

As if from the very first day DC got on the case, he felt BG had been at that intersection.

 

[MJPeony]

Can someone remind what time stamp (it’s episode 1 or 2?) this statement form Carter is?

 

[TL4S]

Can someone remind what time stamp (it’s episode 1 or 2?) this statement form Carter is?

It's within the first minute of the first episode on "Down the Hill" podcast.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Whatever it is, he's not being factual at that point--he's speculating about emotions and motivations. I like that he's not an automaton, and he lets us see his emotions about the case, but sometimes he just adds to the confusion. I tend to discount most of it...

I think because so little information has actually been released in this the case and because we all care so much, we tend to sometimes over analyze every world LE mutters about it. I know I do.

 

[carbuff]

I think because so little information has actually been released in this the case and because we all care so much, we tend to sometimes over analyze every world LE mutters about it. I know I do.

I do too. It's almost impossible not to. Unfortunately.

 

[Charlot123]

There were so many people there that day. THAT is what gets me going. I find it hard to imagine, when so many teens and adults were in that immediate area that day, that LE doesn't have a clear picture of all of them and most importantly what they were doing there. It leads me to think something very wrong occured in their investigation early on and now they have to live with the repercussions. BG is hiding in plain sight alright...because he can and LE cannot rectify that...AJMO.

I think that statement by the sheriff about not being sure if there was another besides BG involved is because they know the specific group that BG was there with. I don't think he was a weirdo loner. LE, IMO, has confidently known who BG is since this time last year. I think LE was misled and right now they're left with an impossibility in charging who they are convinced is BG. It's a waiting game now.

I will add that I'm a staunch supporter of LE. I just believe an unfortunate investigative error occured that is haunting them now. Just think how secure the killer (s) must feel after 3 years of not being charged. I pray for that something to happen. Maybe someone there that day will be haunted. Maybe they will finally need to say what they know. Again this is AJMO. Sorry if I sound like a defeatist, I truly not. I guess the 3 year anniversary with nothing new being released is hitting hard.

This is one possibility. That there was a large group, and there are indications someone well-known was involved, but LE were either intentionally led astray, or advised not to go that route, and now the scent has been lost. You know, like a search dog that loses the scent?

Another version - that the killings were some mafia-like structure’s doing, that the BG is not recognized in Delphi, and that it is a very different story. Then I can only sympathize with LE as they seem to be dealing with lots of drugs and local drug lords and these murders, on top of everything, are very hard.

One more possibility. That there might be a lot on the audio, but nothing directly indicating who the guy was as the girls didn’t know him. Then there is a video that shows someone whom no one has yet recognized, scant witnesses who might have seen different people, and a very generic voice on the audio.

It is a tough case. I am not blaming the LE at all. Maybe they lost something, maybe they never had it.

 

[Charlot123]

I've listened several times and still can't tell exactly what he says there. I don't hear "in his first day." I almost wonder if DC is referring to himself - like "even from the first day" (of the case) he knew BG had stood right there. Wish it was clearer...

If it was someone not local, he had to plan, to familiarize himself with the place, to visit it before. So there must have been the first visit, first day.

 

[heartgoesout]

I'm not sure what I hear, but one guess is "...just like we are right now, I know that - even from the first day, he stood right here..."

As if from the very first day DC got on the case, he felt BG had been at that intersection.

I don't hear from I hear his.

 

[JnRyan]

This is one possibility. That there was a large group, and there are indications someone well-known was involved, but LE were either intentionally led astray, or advised not to go that route, and now the scent has been lost. You know, like a search dog that loses the scent?

Another version - that the killings were some mafia-like structure’s doing, that the BG is not recognized in Delphi, and that it is a very different story. Then I can only sympathize with LE as they seem to be dealing with lots of drugs and local drug lords and these murders, on top of everything, are very hard.

One more possibility. That there might be a lot on the audio, but nothing directly indicating who the guy was as the girls didn’t know him. Then there is a video that shows someone whom no one has yet recognized, scant witnesses who might have seen different people, and a very generic voice on the audio.

It is a tough case. I am not blaming the LE at all. Maybe they lost something, maybe they never had it.

Most of us thought this would be solved quickly with the video/audio of the killer. I'm starting to believe LE might have thought this too and might have been overconfident. If there was some overconfidence here could that have led to some mistakes early on?

 

[TL4S]

I don't hear from I hear his.

It very well could be. I honestly can't tell what he says until he says "first day."

 

[Boxer]

Most of us thought this would be solved quickly with the video/audio of the killer. I'm starting to believe LE might have thought this too and might have been overconfident. If there was some overconfidence here could that have led to some mistakes early on?

Agree.
MOO the lasy PC Carter seemed to say that deputies let someone go that told them what they wanted to hear.
Interesting that awareness of confirmation bias is making it mainstream into police work.
That a good thing.
Hope they get a break soon without someone else getting killed.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Nowhere have I read LE state BG "is the killer". I do recall LE stating the new sketch is the man on the bridge, AND is 'responsible' for the murders. For me, that is revealing. It takes me directly to the scenario where there were likely two persons involved, which is stated clearly by LE in the vid posted on this thread....complete with immediate backtracking from said statement.

MOO, I'm not sure LE has the investigative proof to state BG is 'the killer'. An accomplice, yes. The person responsible, yes. Possibly the killer, yes. This is the exact reason the case is stuck. There are two individuals involved in this murder, and the evidence in this case is not clear as to which one actually murdered the girls, and LE is being patient, as they REALLY want to nail the actual killer.

This too, is why, in several vid's, you'll see them state that someone surely recognizes BG. Also, that someone lives in fear, and is afraid. I think it is THAT someone who is the missing piece, and LE awaits, at minimum, that particular person to come forward and do the right thing. MOO

Take a close look at the image below. Carter says they believe this IS the man responsible for the murders of Libby and Abby.

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

 

[JnRyan]

So no press conference on the 3 year mark. Since LE has 'nothing new to report'. 3 years later and we are on our second sketch. At least one LE member is unsure if there 2 persons involved. We really don't if LE has DNA from the killer based on the coy statements from them. And if they have DNA - and I don't know they couldn't have found some - LE probably doesn't know if they have the killer's DNA. Since the sketch is not really from an eyewitness to the crime or aftermath, I've lost confidence in the sketch or, rather, sketches. LE has 50K in tips for a crime that occurred in a county that only has 20K persons per Wikipedia and yet nothing.

I'm thinking this killer - if there was only one - hasn't said anything to anyone. And since over 2 years passed before the 2nd sketch came out there probably isn't anyone around the killer who remembers if he was absent that day. At this point I don't believe a tip is going to do it. Unfortunately, there will probably have to another murder and killer not be so lucky the next time and gets caught. And then LE makes the connection on DNA. If they have the killer's DNA.

This is really disappointing. Maybe the slogan, "Today is the Day" should be changed to "This year is the year". Maybe.

 

[MJPeony]

It very well could be. I honestly can't tell what he says until he says "first day."

“Even if there was his first day”. That’s kind of what I hear.

Slurred really fast: Eveniftherewashisfirstday.


But I can also hear what others have said here: “Even on his first day”, “Even from the first day”, etc.

None of them have any meaning to me/make any sense. There is not one translation of what he said that would clear anything up for me unfortunately. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

So no press conference on the 3 year mark. Since LE has 'nothing new to report'. 3 years later and we are on our second sketch. At least one LE member is unsure if there 2 persons involved. We really don't if LE has DNA from the killer based on the coy statements from them. And if they have DNA - and I don't know they couldn't have found some - LE probably doesn't know if they have the killer's DNA. Since the sketch is not really from an eyewitness to the crime or aftermath, I've lost confidence in the sketch or, rather, sketches. LE has 50K in tips for a crime that occurred in a county that only has 20K persons per Wikipedia and yet nothing.

I'm thinking this killer - if there was only one - hasn't said anything to anyone. And since over 2 years passed before the 2nd sketch came out there probably isn't anyone around the killer who remembers if he was absent that day. At this point I don't believe a tip is going to do it. Unfortunately, there will probably have to another murder and killer not be so lucky the next time and gets caught. And then LE makes the connection on DNA. If they have the killer's DNA.

This is really disappointing. Maybe the slogan, "Today is the Day" should be changed to "This year is the year". Maybe.

“This millennium is the millennium”.

I think the case is so sensationalized, and lots of people are so loud, and so many Youtubers jumped on it, that it is hard to even understand what was happening in the girls’ lives. It is shocking how much we know about some marginal unimportant figures (like RL, for example), and how little in reality about the central figures, their schools, families, lives. I don’t want to carry on because I don’t want the thread to be closed. I am just getting off this thread unless we are allowed to bring in other witnesses, the school, the friends, the teachers, the community.

I think Gray Hughes’ and other crime Youtubers role is negative. I have to say it. We never heard the story from a totally unbiased position. It is exceptionally unidirectional, and the narrative is controlled. It probably hurt the case.

I understand why the case is so hard to solve. We really get all the information from one angle. Other people are simply silent. Or silenced. Who can name the case where everything, podcasts, shows, the narrative would be so one-sided? We essentially hear the same people, and the two I never listened to, are spectacularly absent.

I don’t blame anyone. I think it happened naturally, the families asked to help solve the case, and then all our Youtubers who haven’t solved a single case in their lives, jumped on this one for own purposes. And now it is not a case, it is a tale.

The only comment - in the process, someone’s life might be ruined. If that duo whose faces are all over the YouTube, just because someone reminds a video, are guilty, it is one thing. If they are innocent, in their place, I’d call a lawyer and do something about it.

 

[heartgoesout]

“Even if there was his first day”. That’s kind of what I hear.

Slurred really fast: Eveniftherewashisfirstday.


But I can also hear what others have said here: “Even on his first day”, “Even from the first day”, etc.

None of them have any meaning to me/make any sense. There is not one translation of what he said that would clear anything up for me unfortunately. MOO.

If he says even on his first day it could imply that someone had a first day there. When I think of first day I think first day of a job.
I agree it is so mumbled it's difficult to make sense of any of it.