Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[sunshineray]

Interviewer is talking about the a memorial.
Carter says this intersection is tough for him.
He wishes they would have turn left instead of right.

Carter "Whoever it is and whoever it was, has stared at this nature reserve sign, just like we are right now, I know that, even in his first day, he stood right here, he stood right here, yeah".

"even IN his first day" is a very odd phrase. "Even on his first day" is not much better as it also leaves some questions as to what he meant. Do you think he misspoke?

 

[TL4S]

^^^^THIS

Just to get to the spot where they crossed the creek, after walking across the bridge, would take effort and knowledge of how to get there. The spot where they crossed can be clearly seen either A) Right in that immediate area, there are trees, bends in the creek, etc., along there which obscure line-of-sight views, or B) From the house by there, which is unoccupied this time of year.

BG didn't just "show up" that day and spontaneously decide to kill, he had this whole scenario planned out well beforehand.

JMO

I do see why you (and others) say this. The spot was obviously well-hidden.

What doesn't make sense is that a killer leading his victims through a creek would make the entire crime more difficult, uncomfortable, and risky. If he did, in fact, park at the CPS building, he'd have to make his way back while cold, wet, muddy, leaves sticking to him, and maybe bloody. Why plan it that way? And why let Libby's shoe remain visable (unless he wasn't aware it came off)? Maybe this really is what made it "odd" and "physically strange." Planning a creek crossing definitely would be.

 

[Brazenkane]

I’m still not convinced this was pre planned.

The crime scene may have been chosen in the heat of the moment due to being no other alternatives

BG, couldn’t take them back across the bridge as that is where the popular trails are, couldn’t take them beyond the gate at the end of the bridge as that is where the houses are. Took them down the hill and was now fairly exposed on the private drive. Either the girls made a break for it across the river or he led them there.

I can see in the heat of the moment BG quickly working out where to go once across the river to give maximum cover.

I’ve seen 7 year old kids playing hide and seek and work out very clever or secluded hiding spots in seconds. Our brains and eyes can work these things out very quickly.

 

[carbuff]

"it was kind of a local secret treasure for hikers"
What, if the perp, who can't be in his right mind anyway, was/is specialized on these "local secret treasures" in locations, he doesn't live in?
Btw, now I would be interested in learning, if the little cousins in Iowa were murdered in an area, which was also a "local secret treasure" for hikers (Seven Bridges Wildlife Area).

The short answer is yes. It was apparently a high school party place for some but not all kids from the larger area, and known to hunters and fisherfolk, but not generally known or heavily frequented.

 

[Cyprusg]

^^^^THIS

Just to get to the spot where they crossed the creek, after walking across the bridge, would take effort and knowledge of how to get there. The spot where they crossed can be clearly seen either A) Right in that immediate area, there are trees, bends in the creek, etc., along there which obscure line-of-sight views, or B) From the house by there, which is unoccupied this time of year.

BG didn't just "show up" that day and spontaneously decide to kill, he had this whole scenario planned out well beforehand.

JMO

I'm not so sure. 40 minutes went by from the time that the girls were dropped off until 2:07PM when Libby took that snapchat which did not show the killer in it. So the chance of him seeing them enter the park and then waiting 20-30 minutes until he started following them is slim. If he were there just to stalk for victims it seems more likely he would be waiting by the entrance. Doesn't make sense for him to walk the trail or wait in the surrounding trees until the right opportunity walks by.

Also the fact that it was on a Monday. Going to a trail that was not busy doesn't make sense unless he knew kids were out of school. But then my next question would be how popular the trail was for school kids?

I just don't see it as a planned killing. I think he probably knew the trail. Probably fantasized about doing something for a long time and then the opportunity presented itself. Without knowing the murder weapon it's hard to say but everything thus far makes me think it was purely a compulsive decision.

 

[JnRyan]

Coming up on three years, and still they don't have a POI, they simply do not have a clue. This tells me there's a high likelihood BG is not local, and my take on that angle within the case is that's part of what BG was counting on, and would help to conceal his identity.
JMO

I'm starting to have doubts about the sketch. When I think about previous sketches they are usually drawn based on a victim's description or an eyewitness that saw the person fleeing the scene or with a missing person prior to their disappearance. The "eyewitnesses" we have here don't appear to have seen this person with the victims at any time or at the crime scene. The person in the video is the killer and that I can firmly believe. But what is the person in the sketch? LE identified persons on the trail that day and the person in the sketch is someone the other persons on the trail did not know. Yes, the argument could be made they recognized the clothing. But I was just on a trail the other day and if LE asked me to identify those on the trail I could probably only remember two, maybe three, and I don't remember what they were wearing. Unless someone was wearing something out of the ordinary like a orange jumpsuit or a bright yellow jacket with really loud plaid pants, nothing stands out to me.

What are the chances this person was on the trail, but had nothing to do with the murders? Why not come forward? Maybe they have a warrant out for them somewhere. Maybe they drove there on a suspended drivers license and we know what LE did to Ron Logan. Maybe they honestly believe they have nothing to provide to LE. Maybe they are concerned they will be looked heavily by LE and don't want to endure that negative attention.

 

[gregjrichards]

@BNA Everyone as the moderators have asked many times in the past please do not post about tips you have sent to law enforcement about any case here it is not helpful to solving cases and may give perp(s) an advantage.

 

[heartgoesout]

His communication is extraordinarily frustrating to me. He really seems like a stand-up guy, but I think he’s done a very poor job of relaying information to the public over the past three years, and it’s been a disservice. IMO. All due respect. MOO.

Unless he is speaking in words only BG would understand.

 

[heartgoesout]

"even IN his first day" is a very odd phrase. "Even on his first day" is not much better as it also leaves some questions as to what he meant. Do you think he misspoke?

What do you hear when you listen to what he says?

 

[JnRyan]

This has just been linked a few posts back and I reread it.
'I'm absolutely hopeful.' On anniversary of Delphi killings, community has faith next tip leads to justice

An interesting comment from Sheriff Tobe Leazenby when asked if having two sketches would indicate two people are involved. And his answer is, “We’re not sure about that,” Wow! Three years later the sheriff expresses doubts about whether it was one person or two. I know there are some here who believe it could be two persons involved. Between that bit of info and the statement that there will be no press conference this year at the 3 year mark it is a rather depressing article for me.

 

[Moreack]

I’ve always thought that this whole thing has been dumb luck for BG. He may have gone to the park with a thought in mind, but he wasn’t looking for these specific girls. I think it is one person who did this. Probably someone local or known to the girls but not someone who solicited them to go to this place that day. I think this was random and turned into a “perfect storm”. I have a twelve year old an three older children. My heart hurts for the families and friends. I hope that BG is figured out soon. Someone knows something! Please confess or turn in your friend or relative.

 

[BNA]

@BNA Everyone as the moderators have asked many times in the past please do not post about tips you have sent to law enforcement about any case here it is not helpful to solving cases and may give perp(s) an advantage.

I did not even think about that. It is a good point. I will delete if I can.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This has just been linked a few posts back and I reread it.
'I'm absolutely hopeful.' On anniversary of Delphi killings, community has faith next tip leads to justice

An interesting comment from Sheriff Tobe Leazenby when asked if having two sketches would indicate two people are involved. And his answer is, “We’re not sure about that,” Wow! Three years later the sheriff expresses doubts about whether it was one person or two. I know there are some here who believe it could be two persons involved. Between that bit of info and the statement that there will be no press conference this year at the 3 year mark it is a rather depressing article for me.

They say they are not having a press conference this year because there is nothing new to report. Ten months after the dramatic emotional press conference where they shared about 3 seconds of new information, spoke directly to the killer, changed direction and gave us a sketch they had chosen to ignore for two years. And now they have nothing new to report. This is LE way of closing the screen door behind us and asking us all to go home. I, for one, am tired of all their talk. About one more tip, about working so hard, etc. They act like there is nothing else for them to do but wait on the one golden tip. They could release more information! Maybe then someone might have a tip for them. There...that’s my bi-annual rant.

 

[Falling Down]

I do see why you (and others) say this. The spot was obviously well-hidden.

What doesn't make sense is that a killer leading his victims through a creek would make the entire crime more difficult, uncomfortable, and risky. If he did, in fact, park at the CPS building, he'd have to make his way back while cold, wet, muddy, leaves sticking to him, and maybe bloody. Why plan it that way? And why let Libby's shoe remain visable (unless he wasn't aware it came off)? Maybe this really is what made it "odd" and "physically strange." Planning a creek crossing definitely would be.

Why go through all that trouble? This case is an outlier in that regard.

 

[Charlot123]

Why go through all that trouble? This case is an outlier in that regard.

This is what I think. We are missing something obvious, because we are lacking certain information.
For example, there might be a reason why Tobe Lazenby doesn’t wasn’t to answer the question, one or two perpetrators? Maybe neither option is correct?
We don’t even know why the girls decided to go to the bridge. There are so many options.

 

[sunshineray]

This is what I think. We are missing something obvious, because we are lacking certain information.
For example, there might be a reason why Tobe Lazenby doesn’t wasn’t to answer the question, one or two perpetrators? Maybe neither option is correct?
We don’t even know why the girls decided to go to the bridge. There are so many options.

There were so many people there that day. THAT is what gets me going. I find it hard to imagine, when so many teens and adults were in that immediate area that day, that LE doesn't have a clear picture of all of them and most importantly what they were doing there. It leads me to think something very wrong occured in their investigation early on and now they have to live with the repercussions. BG is hiding in plain sight alright...because he can and LE cannot rectify that...AJMO.

I think that statement by the sheriff about not being sure if there was another besides BG involved is because they know the specific group that BG was there with. I don't think he was a weirdo loner. LE, IMO, has confidently known who BG is since this time last year. I think LE was misled and right now they're left with an impossibility in charging who they are convinced is BG. It's a waiting game now.

I will add that I'm a staunch supporter of LE. I just believe an unfortunate investigative error occured that is haunting them now. Just think how secure the killer (s) must feel after 3 years of not being charged. I pray for that something to happen. Maybe someone there that day will be haunted. Maybe they will finally need to say what they know. Again this is AJMO. Sorry if I sound like a defeatist, I truly not. I guess the 3 year anniversary with nothing new being released is hitting hard.

 

[sunshineray]

What do you hear when you listen to what he says?

I don't rightly know...I understand, ISP Carter is human just like us all. It may just be his way of expressing himself, standing there and wishing that day had gone very different for the girls. He must think those trails are a comfortably known place to BG, that day and others.

 

[busymcmoody]

Why would BG park by the CPS building? I think that had he parked on the other side of 25 at the new-ish parking area, by Old 25, he would have risked being seen by more people, and his vehicle would have been noticed and information about it recalled more clearly by witnesses, I just think there was less visibility by parking by the old CPS building. That said, people did see the vehicle, driving by and walking the trail by the trailhead and Freedom Bridge, and I think LE have a general description of it they're "keeping close to the vest", I don't blame them for doing so.

SBM

In a way his car stood out more like that as if he'd parked with the other cars, apparently.

 

[Ozoner]

Since day 1 everyone has assumed that BG was unknown to the other people on the trails that may have seen him. What if that is wrong? What if he were well known by some that may have seen him, is known by the police to have been on the trails that day, but they just cant seem to link him directly to the crime. They have DNA but if it was found on say a water bottle that he says he must have dropped several weeks before how could they prove it was from that day?

The video links him to the crime. They don't know who he is.

 

[stattlich1]

The person in the video is the killer and that I can firmly believe. But what is the person in the sketch?

Nowhere have I read LE state BG "is the killer". I do recall LE stating the new sketch is the man on the bridge, AND is 'responsible' for the murders. For me, that is revealing. It takes me directly to the scenario where there were likely two persons involved, which is stated clearly by LE in the vid posted on this thread....complete with immediate backtracking from said statement.

MOO, I'm not sure LE has the investigative proof to state BG is 'the killer'. An accomplice, yes. The person responsible, yes. Possibly the killer, yes. This is the exact reason the case is stuck. There are two individuals involved in this murder, and the evidence in this case is not clear as to which one actually murdered the girls, and LE is being patient, as they REALLY want to nail the actual killer.

This too, is why, in several vid's, you'll see them state that someone surely recognizes BG. Also, that someone lives in fear, and is afraid. I think it is THAT someone who is the missing piece, and LE awaits, at minimum, that particular person to come forward and do the right thing. MOO