Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

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aust amateur slueth said:
teachers/school staff may call students guys.
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My thoughts are similar to yours. I have never thought BG's use of "Guys" to be of much significance. I taught school for 32 years in the rural South and used the term probably at least once a day. When a person frequently addresses a classroom size group of males and females, the person finds something that works for that person. I used "guys, you guys, hey guys", etc, and it worked for me. Age of group, IMO, doesn't matter as it is the speaker's choice. As long as the word is not insulting to any member of the group, it probably will not be a big deal. What I find odd about "guys" is the number of people he was addressing--two, Abby and Libby. I would have used a different word when talking to small group, especially two people, something like the Southern catch-all of "ya'll." That example is just my choice. IMO, BG used what came to his mind naturally in a familiar manner. I do think it is a familiar term for him to use. I also think LE knows who he is and feel "guys" should make him recognizable to some people. I am not saying BG is an educator. I used teacher as an example because it is what I am familiar with.
 
Cyprusg said:
What strikes me as unique about his appearance is the fact that he has curly reddish hair and wears an Irish flat cap. It's possible that the flat cap was just a disguise and he wouldn't normally wear one but it's such a odd choice when there's probably a thousand beanies to every one flat cap. It makes me think that he's somebody that likes to show off his Irish heritage since he has red hair as well. It wouldn't be odd for someone that's into fashion, but he's clearly not. I feel like the flat cap meant something to him.

Also the thing I keep going back to in my mind is trying to figure out why he was there. It was a Monday. At 2:07PM libby posted a snapchat and the suspect was not in the photo. They were dropped off at 1:30PM. So clearly this person did not see them get dropped off as it would take a lot less than 40 minutes to get to the bridge from the entrance. Also the way he walks on the bridge he seemed comfortable with it. It could be just adrenaline or him thinking about what he's going to do but being 40 feet up he sure walked that bridge with confidence. He also forced them to walk across the freezing creek, which tells me his plan was to kill them and then walk back to his car that was parked near M 300 N through the woods so he wouldn't be seen. None of that may have any significance other than the fact that I really believe he was familiar with that area. Maybe not a Delphi local, but he had been on that trail before.

But then I go back to what reasons would a man have to walk that trail on a Monday afternoon? I walk trails every day and the number of times I've seen a middle aged man walk by himself without a dog I can count on one hand. It's not a common thing to do. So did he go there hoping for a victim? Did he know that school was out for the day? If so, how? Does he have children himself? So many questions...
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Do we know that it is curly reddish?

I imagine him having brown hair; he could have been a redhead in younger life, but currently it feels brown to me.
 
Cyprusg said:
What strikes me as unique about his appearance is the fact that he has curly reddish hair and wears an Irish flat cap. It's possible that the flat cap was just a disguise and he wouldn't normally wear one but it's such a odd choice when there's probably a thousand beanies to every one flat cap. It makes me think that he's somebody that likes to show off his Irish heritage since he has red hair as well. It wouldn't be odd for someone that's into fashion, but he's clearly not. I feel like the flat cap meant something to him.

Also the thing I keep going back to in my mind is trying to figure out why he was there. It was a Monday. At 2:07PM libby posted a snapchat and the suspect was not in the photo. They were dropped off at 1:30PM. So clearly this person did not see them get dropped off as it would take a lot less than 40 minutes to get to the bridge from the entrance. Also the way he walks on the bridge he seemed comfortable with it. It could be just adrenaline or him thinking about what he's going to do but being 40 feet up he sure walked that bridge with confidence. He also forced them to walk across the freezing creek, which tells me his plan was to kill them and then walk back to his car that was parked near M 300 N through the woods so he wouldn't be seen. None of that may have any significance other than the fact that I really believe he was familiar with that area. Maybe not a Delphi local, but he had been on that trail before.

But then I go back to what reasons would a man have to walk that trail on a Monday afternoon? I walk trails every day and the number of times I've seen a middle aged man walk by himself without a dog I can count on one hand. It's not a common thing to do. So did he go there hoping for a victim? Did he know that school was out for the day? If so, how? Does he have children himself? So many questions...
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Do we know that it is curly reddish?

I imagine him having brown hair; he could have been a redhead in younger life, but currently it feels brown to me.
aust amateur slueth said:
teachers/school staff may call students guys.
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Or someone who has kids, boys, or boys and girls, addressing one another.
 
MJPeony said:
So, JMO, the key to solving this case will not come from national exposure through Walsh’s show.

I just don’t think the show will suddenly produce a tip from someone who hasn’t heard about the case.

I sound like a Debbie Downer!- not trying to be. Just a bit discouraged that there doesn’t seem to be any movement since April.MOO.
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RSBM
I know it's easy to be discouraged about the lack of movement. I think many of us are. However; DC indicated in the April PC that we should be patient with LE. It sounded (to me), that there was some information early in the case that LE is going back to due to intelligence and new information that has come to light. Pure speculation on my part, but it could be an alibi that has come forward, items collected from search warrant(s), DNA testing, new witnesses, or possible photos/videos taken in the area that day- perhaps by someone who doesn't live locally.

As to the podcasts, involvement with John Walsh, or rumors of Paul Holes assisting with the case (on Kelsi's Twitter account):
If the person(s) having information about potential suspect(s) isn't coming forward due to distrust of local LE, or out of fear of BG(s) harming them, giving an anonymous tip to a national crime stoppers line may make them feel more comfortable in sharing what they know? There have been many statements given by LE that "someone knows who BG is- someone knows who did this". I am very hopeful that this person will come forward with all of the national attention, and options for giving that one tip that will complete the puzzle.

Hang in there- BG's time is coming. His freedom is going to end. ((Hugs))
 
aust amateur slueth said:
teachers/school staff may call students guys.
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Good point.

It was actually older male teachers I was thinking of. In a mixed group setting ‘guys’ would be used. But older male teachers seem to use the word ‘girls’ when no other males are present in the group they are addressing. Younger males would use the word ‘guys’ much more freely.

Encountering two very young females alone on a trail, I struggle with the idea of an older male even a teacher or authority figure (above the age of 40) using ‘guys’

Younger males would feel weird using ‘girls’ the closer to age they are to the females.

With such little info released, all I can do is speculate on the minor things.

The other tidbit is the comment by family that Abby and Libby referred to a ‘creepy guy’. I wonder if BG was older they would use the word ‘man’ instead of ‘guy’. E.g creepy man, scary man. This I’m less committed to, but again makes me think BG is younger, or at least under 40.
 
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JDough said:
RSBM
I know it's easy to be discouraged about the lack of movement. I think many of us are. However; DC indicated in the April PC that we should be patient with LE. It sounded (to me), that there was some information early in the case that LE is going back to due to intelligence and new information that has come to light. Pure speculation on my part, but it could be an alibi that has come forward, items collected from search warrant(s), DNA testing, new witnesses, or possible photos/videos taken in the area that day- perhaps by someone who doesn't live locally.

As to the podcasts, involvement with John Walsh, or rumors of Paul Holes assisting with the case (on Kelsi's Twitter account):
If the person(s) having information about potential suspect(s) isn't coming forward due to distrust of local LE, or out of fear of BG(s) harming them, giving an anonymous tip to a national crime stoppers line may make them feel more comfortable in sharing what they know? There have been many statements given by LE that "someone knows who BG is- someone knows who did this". I am very hopeful that this person will come forward with all of the national attention, and options for giving that one tip that will complete the puzzle.

Hang in there- BG's time is coming. His freedom is going to end. ((Hugs))
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The increased anonymity of a national tip line is a good point- I hadn’t thought of that. True, that could incentivize someone.

Carter did say to be patient. I really clung to that for a while. So I will go back to clinging :).
 
TL4S said:
I tend to agree with this line of thinking. It doesn't feel SK to me, either.

I don't think the bodies were necessarily left to be found, though. If he led them to that location, I think it was likely because it was the first spot he could find that wasn't visible from the bridge, trail, etc. He knew they wouldn't be found until he was long gone, at least. And if one or both of the girls ran, he might have been in a rage when he caught up with them on the north side of the creek, killed them, and moved them just out of sight of the bridge. Who knows.
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After hearing that interview with the three ex-FBI agents, I think I'm more willing to believe that BG actually had what they called "a lair" set up ahead of time. People have said the topography of that sight even gives it a noise buffer to the surrounding areas because it's a wide gully-like depression. I tend to think the girls weren't moved more than a few feet from where they were actually murdered, if even that. JMO
 
sunshineray said:
My understanding from different articles and other sources online is that there were quite a few people around that day. Some of them doing work related things on or very near the trails. I was actually shocked at just how many people were in the area that particular afternoon and in the previous days to the murders.
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It doesn't have to be the 13th or 14th he's referring to.
 
I've heard how many of the police and people on the scene when the bodies of Abby and Libby were found said it was "a sight that can't be unseen" Now from that I've come across on various sites people coming up with the most gruesome bizarre theories. I've read one that sounded similar to how the Black Dahlia was dissected. Again, we have no clue whatsoever because the police have not released anything about their death's. The scene could have been as "simple" as the girls laying there with bullet holes through their head. That alone is something that can't be unseen. It does not have to be some bizarre gorey NC 17 horror film.
All we have is a short clip of audio and a grainy 2 sec looped video. From the killer's voice clip of the use of the word "guys" tells me absolutely nothing. I've heard my 9 and 10 year old female and male neighbors yelling to their friends, "come on guys, let's go this way/ lets play this guys" I am in my 30s, I use "guys" often. I feel like in Chicago "guys" is used often by all genders toward all genders. Also I am guessing that the "guys" part of the audio could be part of a separate sentence from "down the hill" Just a guess, but I am assuming the police had to edit of lot of audio out that probably involved the girls screaming or crying or perhaps the killer saying some really nasty things.
 
sunshineray said:
After hearing that interview with the three ex-FBI agents, I think I'm more willing to believe that BG actually had what they called "a lair" set up ahead of time. People have said the topography of that sight even gives it a noise buffer to the surrounding areas because it's a wide gully-like depression. I tend to think the girls weren't moved more than a few feet from where they were actually murdered, if even that. JMO
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I agree. Whether lair or chance, I don't think he moved them very much, either.
 
zencompass said:
Great post!

I've highlighted the portion of your post which definitely corresponds with what Doug Carter said at the April 2019 press conference, in that B.G. lived/lives in this area.
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"it was kind of a local secret treasure for hikers"
What, if the perp, who can't be in his right mind anyway, was/is specialized on these "local secret treasures" in locations, he doesn't live in?
Btw, now I would be interested in learning, if the little cousins in Iowa were murdered in an area, which was also a "local secret treasure" for hikers (Seven Bridges Wildlife Area).
 
My guess is most people on here have either already, or plan to, listen to the HLN podcast, but I’m on the 2nd installment and I highly recommend it. I think it’s incredibly well done.

I’ve found myself choking up on several occasions so far. It’s the most poignant account of the murders and it’s effect on people in those surrounding days that I’ve listened to so far. IMO.
 
FromGermany said:
Men's jacket, I think. Not turned inside-out. MOO
Why do you think, it is turned?
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The way the buttons/snaps look, the way the fabric is separated where it is not buttoned. Could there have been an identifiable logo printed on the outside? So he turned it inside out so no one could see it? It just looks so odd to me & I keep trying to figure out why. That is the best I could come up with. JMOO
 
sunshineray said:
I'm sorry HGO...who's referring to?

Edited by me...oh I see, ISP Carter. I haven't caught the whole podcast yet. Did it sound like he was talking about BG in like a planning stage was standing at the sign? Not on the day of the murders but previously?
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"Standing at the sign" sounds to me like: being there, having an agreement to meet a person at this unique meeting point. MOO
 
sunshineray said:
I'm sorry HGO...who's referring to?

Edited by me...oh I see, ISP Carter. I haven't caught the whole podcast yet. Did it sound like he was talking about BG in like a planning stage was standing at the sign? Not on the day of the murders but previously?
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Carter talks in anomalies so it's hard to tell if he's using language BG understands or if that's how he typically talks.
The interviewer is discussing the nature reserve sign and Carter says BG has stared at the sign, he's sure of it "even on his first day".
It's in the first chapter of HLNs podcast first minute or so.
 
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