Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[tresir2012]

Yes, I can see how there would be people at her college who hadn’t heard of the case. Although I have a REALLY hard time believing there are locals in the dark. The latest HLN podcast states that when the girls went missing that first night basically the entire town came out to search. They said that when something like that happens, Delphi is the type of small town to support each other, and that “everyone knows everyone, or at least knows a person that knows that person” (approximate quote there).

I personally think the people who LE were addressing in their latest presser already know about the case. I think they were speaking to very specific people, and Carter even said “we likely have interviewed you”. So, JMO, the key to solving this case will not come from national exposure through Walsh’s show.

But I don’t mean to criticize the show being done and aired. I think it’s great they are doing it, if nothing else than to just get these girls’ memory honored and their story told. And sure, maybe it will put the heat on the perp or his family/friends. I just don’t think the show will suddenly produce a tip from someone who hasn’t heard about the case.

I sound like a Debbie Downer!- not trying to be. Just a bit discouraged that there doesn’t seem to be any movement since April.



MOO.

I think that there will be quite a number of people who have moved away from Delphi since 2017 and I believe it could well be one of those people. I know of quite a few people who have moved and, although not suspicious of itself, I think it is likely the perp has moved away or is even in jail somewhere for another crime. If people nationwide hear about this crime from the podcast or the Walsh intervention it may make them think, "oh so-and-so is from near there" and perhaps call in a tip if they have any information. That's my hope. I do think it is time for LE to release more info. How were they killed, were they sexually assaulted, how was the crime scene strange or peculiar as has been suggested. It is no good keeping this info close to the chest if the case does not get solved. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

The thing that stood out to me on the HLN podcast was the very opening of the first episode when Doug Carter and the presenter are where the girls were dropped off. DC says if only the girls had turned right instead of left they’d be alive right now.

TBH I think that is a bit of a dumb comment because they would be alive right now if they hadn't gone at all as well. Also, it could have been others killed instead, Carter does not know what was in the killer's mind. If it was someone under the influence of drugs (i.e. random) then the victims could have been CE and her friend who were the next on the bridge after the girls. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Sorry but problems with replies and duplicate posts so deleted this one.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

These are curious statements. I think back to how LE requested PE's DNA and autopsy report. I'm not suggesting PE as a suspect, I'm looking at why an autopsy report would be pertinent, and how that correlates to a "physically strange" crime scene.

Maybe there was evidence of something unique to the killer aside from his DNA, yet something that would be identifiable through an autopsy: an issue apparent in the footprints, a hair sample indicating a rare disease, medication, or drug use, or clues to certain behaviors that can be connected to an illness, injury, lifestyle, or genetic composition, etc. There could be a thousand examples.

Even the creek crossing itself is odd. I just hope this means they have enough evidence to pin the person once they have him.

The creek crossing has puzzled me since very early on. I initially just figured BG had walked them back across the bridge and down the hill on the other side somewhere. After all this time I cannot fathom that anyone would make a plan that included crossing a creek in mid-February. My thoughts now are that the killer was leading them somewhere down the creek on the original side but the girls bolted across the creek. He unfortunately ran them down and in a rage killed them. That has been the only way my weak brain has been able to make sense of the creek crossing.

 

[carbuff]

These are curious statements. I think back to how LE requested PE's DNA and autopsy report. I'm not suggesting PE as a suspect, I'm looking at why an autopsy report would be pertinent, and how that correlates to a "physically strange" crime scene.

Maybe there was evidence of something unique to the killer aside from his DNA, yet something that would be identifiable through an autopsy: an issue apparent in the footprints, a hair sample indicating a rare disease, medication, or drug use, or clues to certain behaviors that can be connected to an illness, injury, lifestyle, or genetic composition, etc. There could be a thousand examples.

Even the creek crossing itself is odd. I just hope this means they have enough evidence to pin the person once they have him.

It's more likely to be something related to how the killing was done, whether and how the bodies were posed, maybe even a unique knot or weapon that would identify the victims as having been murdered by the same person, rather than something directly identifying the murderer.

 

[TL4S]

The creek crossing has puzzled me since very early on. I initially just figured BG had walked them back across the bridge and down the hill on the other side somewhere. After all this time I cannot fathom that anyone would make a plan that included crossing a creek in mid-February. My thoughts now are that the killer was leading them somewhere down the creek on the original side but the girls bolted across the creek. He unfortunately ran them down and in a rage killed them. That has been the only way my weak brain has been able to make sense of the creek crossing.

I'm wondering the same. We know Libby's shoe was found somewhere around the wooded bottom along the creek because KG tells us that, but we don't know exactly which side. In my mind, the shoe was on the south side of the creek because it came off when Libby ran toward the creek and first hit mud. Her footprints headed into the creek, so searchers automatically looked across the creek to find where the footprints came out, which is when they found the bodies. The fact that the shoe was left there (as opposed to BG forcing her to pick it up to keep it out of sight) makes me feel it came off in chaos...like a chase. There are so many ways it could have happened, though.

 

[JnRyan]

Assuming he did know the area from pre 2007, then the age range given of 18-40 would have to mean the perp could have only been 8 years old or so at that time. Is that a possibility? The new sketch does make BG look young despite the video looking like a middle aged man. Some people even believed it was a 70 year old at one time. How can descriptions from witnesses be so different regarding age?

I believe it is quite possible this killer was probably in the Delphi area either as a resident or frequent visitor prior to high school. If the current residents haven't seen him very much since middle school he may have changed significantly since then and they don't recognize him from the sketch, if he was in the Delphi area as much as 10-12 years earlier.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I’m so thankful the girls’ thread has reopened, that Podcasts are being done to raise awareness, that John Walsh is finally involved, but I am most thankful that the girls were found & the families were able to lay them to rest.
We see so many cases where the missing are not found & their loved ones must go on without ever having their chance to say good-bye.
The girls were found. LE can & will find BG. There will be justice, we just can’t give in to time...no matter how long it takes, we have to believe & hope & keep talking & never grow silent. Their families haven’t given up & neither should we. That’s why we’re all here....

These are curious statements. I think back to how LE requested PE's DNA and autopsy report. I'm not suggesting PE as a suspect, I'm looking at why an autopsy report would be pertinent, and how that correlates to a "physically strange" crime scene.

Maybe there was evidence of something unique to the killer aside from his DNA, yet something that would be identifiable through an autopsy: an issue apparent in the footprints, a hair sample indicating a rare disease, medication, or drug use, or clues to certain behaviors that can be connected to an illness, injury, lifestyle, or genetic composition, etc. There could be a thousand examples.

Even the creek crossing itself is odd. I just hope this means they have enough evidence to pin the person once they have him.

Very good thoughts! I wondered that too. What would an autopsy show that could connect PE (or anyone) to the girls murders? So curious to know what that could be. MOO

 

[TL4S]

I’m so thankful the girls’ thread has reopened, that Podcasts are being done to raise awareness, that John Walsh is finally involved, but I am most thankful that the girls were found & the families were able to lay them to rest.
We see so many cases where the missing are not found & their loved ones must go on without ever having their chance to say good-bye.
The girls were found. LE can & will find BG. There will be justice, we just can’t give in to time...no matter how long it takes, we have to believe & hope & keep talking & never grow silent. Their families haven’t given up & neither should we. That’s why we’re all here....

Very good thoughts! I wondered that too. What would an autopsy show that could connect PE (or anyone) to the girls murders? So curious to know what that could be. MOO

Since DC seems to think BG was at the trailhead, and that it was considered part of the crime scene, I feel even more confident that the girls came across BG on the trail prior to the bridge. I do think he stalked them, but if they were aware of his presence, maybe they discussed on audio something about his person that LE thinks could be identified via an autopsy. It is very curious!

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Since DC seems to think BG was at the trailhead, and that it was considered part of the crime scene, I feel even more confident that the girls came across BG on the trail prior to the bridge. I do think he stalked them, but if they were aware of his presence, maybe they discussed on audio something about his person that LE thinks could be identified via an autopsy. It is very curious!

BBM
IIRC The girls did mention him, but we do not know word for word what they said about him, so I agree that is absolutely possible! MOO

 

[heartgoesout]

Perhaps Mears has a camera at that trail head? How else could Carter "guarantee" it? That is a weird thing to say otherwise IMO. I know it was in MSM about "activity" there day and night and that is why that area was closed as a parking area after the murders and later on gates were put up.

It is possible Carter saying "he stood here (at the sign), even his first day" might allude that BG could have done some type of work at the bridge. I imagine someone starting a land survey, or bridge inspection or soil sampling or worse case maybe even the first day he helped with the investigation.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Does anyone know when John Walsh’s Delphi episode will be on or is it still being worked out?
I believe that once it airs there will be a ton of more tips called in.

I read the episode summaries for February 12 and February 19. Neither one of them mentioned Delphi. So apparently it will be quite a bit beyond the third anniversary.

I'm looking forward to the segment. Certainly preferable to another presser from law enforcement locals. But I would caution along the same lines as a post here from the other day: Law enforcement does not undertake this type of thing unless they are seeking information from the public. Normally a John Walsh segment deals with knowing who the offender is, but needing the public's help to locate him. This time they are seeking the identification period.

I don't see how this jives at all with the ongoing insistence that they know who it is but are trying to break an alibi or get someone to turn him in. However, I realize that will remain the theme for many. John Walsh is summoned to nudge somebody's conscious. Okay. I'll prefer to believe using John Walsh is a smart move by a department that is stuck and wanted to do something 3 years later, but realized that walking Doug Carter out there again wasn't going to accomplish anything and likely would be greeted by frustration from people who follow this case.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Assuming he did know the area from pre 2007, then the age range given of 18-40 would have to mean the perp could have only been 8 years old or so at that time. Is that a possibility? The new sketch does make BG look young despite the video looking like a middle aged man. Some people even believed it was a 70 year old at one time. How can descriptions from witnesses be so different regarding age?

I would go with 30ish. I like the versions that don't rely on details specific to this case. John Douglass says he always starts at a specific age and then adjusts up or down depending on the case itself. For some reason I've forgotten the age Douglass uses as starting point. Something like 28. Maybe others would know.

Regarding the bridge prior to the trails or Freedom Bridge or State Road 25, on Reddit the other day there was an interesting post from someone who grew up in Delphi. It was posted in the "watershed" thread. This is what he wrote:

"...But not too many that knew about the High Bridge area... Honestly until these murders it was kind of a local secret treasure for hikers.

As a kid you used to have to hike through the woods on an abandoned railroad bed to find it. I think I was a junior or senior in high school by the time they had officially expanded the public trail system to the bridge (which is technically where they stop)"

 

[arielilane]

While listening to scene of the crime unthinkable, there was a lady named Ana and she talked about a weird experience she had about a year before the Delphi murders. It went something like some creepy guy sitting in his car spoke with her. He stated something about you’re looking at me like you know me. The guy was warning her about unknown people and basically not to trust anyone. Something to that effect .

Does anyone recall hearing about the incident previously and/or has Ana ever stated the guy in the car looked similar to BG? Did she ever say what type of car he was in? TIA
I haven’t read everything on this thread so forgive me if this was already discussed.

 

[NameUser]

While listening to scene of the crime unthinkable, there was a lady named Ana and she talked about a weird experience she had about a year before the Delphi murders. It went something like some creepy guy sitting in his car spoke with her. He stated something about you’re looking at me like you know me. The guy was warning her about unknown people and basically not to trust anyone. Something to that effect .

Does anyone recall hearing about the incident previously and/or has Ana ever stated the guy in the car looked similar to BG? Did she ever say what type of car he was in? TIA
I haven’t read everything on this thread so forgive me if this was already discussed.

This is new information to me. I've been here a long time and do not recall this being discussed at length. Interesting to say the least!

 

[arielilane]

I went back to listen to the podcast, and was Anna who is Abby's mother was explaining the incident that happened a year or so before the Delphi murders. Its episode 3, start around 28 minute mark. Anna stopped to talk with the guy in the vehicle and Abby walked on to get in their car.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Can anyone say whether the blue jacket BG is wearing is fastening the women's way or the men's way? It appears to be fastened with poppers in about 3 places. To me it looks like the wearers left side of the jacket does up over the right side which would be the men's way right?

I always thought it was turned inside-out. MOO

 

[Falling Down]

The creek crossing has puzzled me since very early on. I initially just figured BG had walked them back across the bridge and down the hill on the other side somewhere. After all this time I cannot fathom that anyone would make a plan that included crossing a creek in mid-February. My thoughts now are that the killer was leading them somewhere down the creek on the original side but the girls bolted across the creek. He unfortunately ran them down and in a rage killed them. That has been the only way my weak brain has been able to make sense of the creek crossing.

The only sensible explanation I can come up for crossing the creek is BG needed privacy to do his deeds, and already had the spot picked out.

Good post.

JMO

 

[zencompass]

The only sensible explanation I can come up for crossing the creek is BG needed privacy to do his deeds, and already had the spot picked out.

Good post.

JMO

I agree - as if he had already planned out everything in his mind and was just waiting and watching for the opportunity.

 

[zencompass]

...
Regarding the bridge prior to the trails or Freedom Bridge or State Road 25, on Reddit the other day there was an interesting post from someone who grew up in Delphi. It was posted in the "watershed" thread. This is what he wrote:

"...But not too many that knew about the High Bridge area... Honestly until these murders it was kind of a local secret treasure for hikers.

As a kid you used to have to hike through the woods on an abandoned railroad bed to find it. I think I was a junior or senior in high school by the time they had officially expanded the public trail system to the bridge (which is technically where they stop)"

Great post!

I've highlighted the portion of your post which definitely corresponds with what Doug Carter said at the April 2019 press conference, in that B.G. lived/lives in this area.