Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[pearl]

I have a question and do apologize if it has been asked and answered. Thanks in advance if anyone can answer it. Do they make transcripts of the podcasts? I have quite a bit of hearing loss.

 

[heartgoesout]

Yeah I hear ya. I'm still going to think on the side that the actual crime scene was a bit more preserved.

 

[PezCandy]

I also remember hearing from the very beginning that the crime scene was extremely contaminated. Wasn’t it because there was people searching throughout the night? I don’t remember why it was said honestly but I remember hearing it.

 

[PezCandy]

I have a question and do apologize if it has been asked and answered. Thanks in advance if anyone can answer it. Do they make transcripts of the podcasts? I have quite a bit of hearing loss.

I have asked before and didn’t get a straight answer but the WSers that listen to the podcasts do really good at giving a transcript of the podcasts... I don’t remember which users do it but it definitely helps for us people with hearing loss! I haven’t been able to find any transcripts for podcasts yet :/

 

[JohnnyChicago]

I have asked before and didn’t get a straight answer but the WSers that listen to the podcasts do really good at giving a transcript of the podcasts... I don’t remember which users do it but it definitely helps for us people with hearing loss! I haven’t been able to find any transcripts for podcasts yet :/

I have not seen any transcripts offered at the moment but I would not be surprised if over the course of the next several episodes they will probably add them. If not, you can try https://trint.com/?cn-reloaded=1 Do free trial and upload audio file and have it transcribed.

 

[on the case]

I still can't reason with why the killer had to corner them on the bridge. There are so many other places even right there within the trail system. But what really bugs me is the fact that he killed them and left them there. It really makes me wonder if he was just on foot with no vehicle. Like someone who lives right there within a mile walking distance. 3 yrs. later and I just can't shake this thought.

 

[cryssyx3]

I really want to be hopeful.... but I just don't have much hope that getting more national publicity for this case will do much good at all. The locals have heard a lot about this case for nearly 3 years now. It's a small community and there has been tremendous coverage when it comes to that community knowing about it. The people/person who LE needs corroboration from, or to share that final tip with them, is not going to need to hear about the case from John Walsh IMO. Totally JMO.

And yes, I'm unfortunately becoming more pessimistic. Especially after hearing this recent ISP radio broadcast. I did not get any sense that they were actually closer to an arrest. MOO MOO.

I've been catching up on this thread so forgive me for replying to an "old" comment, I felt this was semi important to mention. Kelsi did an interview with the Crawlspace podcast, the same guys that do Missing Mayra Murray. she mentioned there's still a concerning number of the locals never heard of this case. she said at her college, she still hands out flyers and plays the audio and video for people that haven't heard it yet.

 

[Stew223]

The thing that stood out to me on the HLN podcast was the very opening of the first episode when Doug Carter and the presenter are where the girls were dropped off. DC says if only the girls had turned right instead of left they’d be alive right now.

 

[Thelastleg]

I've been catching up on this thread so forgive me for replying to an "old" comment, I felt this was semi important to mention. Kelsi did an interview with the Crawlspace podcast, the same guys that do Missing Mayra Murray. she mentioned there's still a concerning number of the locals never heard of this case. she said at her college, she still hands out flyers and plays the audio and video for people that haven't heard it yet.

Did Kelsi go to a local college?

 

[tresir2012]

I need to re-listen to the podcast but didn't Carter say something like, he could guarantee that BG stood at that trailhead gazing at, I think, trail signage? Possibly if they had access to Libby's phone that early on and the recording indicated some initial contact between the girls and BG that occurred at the trail head,or something that referenced the trailhead, they included it for that reason?

Perhaps Mears has a camera at that trail head? How else could Carter "guarantee" it? That is a weird thing to say otherwise IMO. I know it was in MSM about "activity" there day and night and that is why that area was closed as a parking area after the murders and later on gates were put up.

 

[tresir2012]

I would think you would investigate all ways in and out to look for any discarded clothing/Cigarettes/Gum or even shoe prints as others have mentioned. I hoped they locked down most of the entire area to be honest.

They did the next day but there was no lockdown before that. Unfortunately searchers were all over the area on the evening and night of the 13th before the area was locked down on the 14th, so even if they have evidence from the trailhead or anywhere else it will now be compromised IMO. I think this is why they want someone who knows, or the perp himself, to come forward.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

I still can't reason with why the killer had to corner them on the bridge. There are so many other places even right there within the trail system. But what really bugs me is the fact that he killed them and left them there. It really makes me wonder if he was just on foot with no vehicle. Like someone who lives right there within a mile walking distance. 3 yrs. later and I just can't shake this thought.

I wouldn't say he cornered them. There were many paths /directions to go once off the bridge. But when you have a adult male authority figure with a possible weapon, then you have two young girls who are seized by fear that will obey orders given. The killer also could have been easily spooked by a nearby sound which made him go the route he did. Or in his mind maybe he went over the area already or was a local that was familiar with the area and decided in advance this would be one of the locations he would take a future victim. We will never know until he is caught. It is all subjective, we have no idea what was going on in his sociopathic/ psychopathic mind.

We don't know how the girls were killed, but if he committed the act of murder with a gun or knife, it would be too much of a mess to drag two young girls back to his vehicle (if he had one) and he would leave evidence all over. Or the chance of being seen trying to carry the girls. It would be difficult to carry that dead weight.

Also, once they were dead, what other reason would he have to risk taking the girls with him? Again, just assumptions, but I believe he did have a vehicle. Witnesses have said they saw vehicle parked in that area. The FBI, local police, etc probably have already looked into the individuals that leave nearby on properties. I am guessing they did their legwork and also asked those residents if they have any gardeners, workmen, caretakers, etc that work for them.

Hope that helps somewhat
take care

 

[JnRyan]

I still can't reason with why the killer had to corner them on the bridge. There are so many other places even right there within the trail system. But what really bugs me is the fact that he killed them and left them there. It really makes me wonder if he was just on foot with no vehicle. Like someone who lives right there within a mile walking distance. 3 yrs. later and I just can't shake this thought.

I believe it was the killer's intention to get the girls somewhere off the trail. Once he got them to that spot it was his plan to either sexually assault one or both and the plan went sideways on him leading to the killing OR it was simply his plan to just kill them from the start. It is my belief that he simply planned to kill them and with them in that isolated area away from the trail it would take longer for anyone to determine it was a murder and he get as far away from the area as possible.

What I can't get over is that this guy not only did this in the daylight, but on a nice day (possibility of more traffic on trails) with school out (also possibility of more traffic on the trails). THAT was bold. Was it planned in advance, was he hunting for a victim or victims or did he merely see the girls and decide to kill without any previous thought or plan? I believe any of those is possible, but how he carried it out was VERY BOLD. He was also very lucky.

 

[tresir2012]

Very interesting topic. I still think he's a non-local who searched for an isolated area without cameras and where a victim was easily trapped. I believe he may have had more than one location picked out and simply waited for an opportunity to present itself at any of them, while he was there hunting.

We tend to give the criminal too much credit and assign the result to his absolute intention. That is malarkey. They have no idea how anything will unfold, including how the victim(s) will react. They have to make a series of calculations along the way, many in very short time frame. Then either go or abort. I guarantee in the EAR case that DeAngelo went home furious time and again when his original target didn't happen for any number of reasons, including something innocuous like a car parked where it had never been parked during his reconnaissance.

But if Bridge Guy did know the Monon High area previously, instead of discovering it recently online, then absolutely there is great chance he remembered it from the pre-State Road 25 and Freedom Bridge days, and merely operated accordingly on February 13th, 2017, just as he would have 10 years or more earlier. That aspect is seldom if ever discussed.

I know it applies to me on my vacations throughout the country. I like to revisit former spots from trips with my parents decades ago. Frankly I always want to the areas look and function the same as from my memory. If that is not the case I take note of it but I always proceed the same way I would have. I approach from the angle that contains the memories. I park in the comfortable spot, even if it means a longer and more strenuous walk. I traipse and photograph along the familiar path. Only if they physically prevent me from doing what I want to do, then I make annoying adjustments.

Otherwise:

* I agree with the comment that law enforcement press conferences only happen when they are seeking information from the public. Great point. It is the reason I almost hope it doesn't happen on the anniversary or any time soon. Less can be more. The remarks in that recent law enforcement video interview were so pathetic and inept I almost hope they were intentionally that way, to allow impression of befuddlement and nothing going on behind the scenes. How else can I interpret repeated use of such biggies as, "We just need one tip," and "I'm convinced it's a combination of the two sketches."

Nobody can be that bad. At least I hope not. I'd love for Doug Carter to announce an arrest one day while describing everything they had to do to maintain face while it was taking shape.

* Carter was absolutely describing both the Delphi and Flora cases when he said, "Either one..." It was not a slip up or a nod toward multiple offenders in Delphi. It was pure Doug Carter lingo... blending topics and dispensing confusion as a rule. You have to listen to him with translation in mind

* Both podcast series are valuable contributions. "Scene of the Crime" is like an enhanced audio timeline with some new material. "Down the Hill" is put together from a larger company so naturally they have more resources, and devoted them to visiting Delphi for local interviews, ones that are weaved together toward what everyone was thinking at a given time

Assuming he did know the area from pre 2007, then the age range given of 18-40 would have to mean the perp could have only been 8 years old or so at that time. Is that a possibility? The new sketch does make BG look young despite the video looking like a middle aged man. Some people even believed it was a 70 year old at one time. How can descriptions from witnesses be so different regarding age?

 

[tresir2012]

Can anyone say whether the blue jacket BG is wearing is fastening the women's way or the men's way? It appears to be fastened with poppers in about 3 places. To me it looks like the wearers left side of the jacket does up over the right side which would be the men's way right?

 

[Charlot123]

Assuming he did know the area from pre 2007, then the age range given of 18-40 would have to mean the perp could have only been 8 years old or so at that time. Is that a possibility? The new sketch does make BG look young despite the video looking like a middle aged man. Some people even believed it was a 70 year old at one time. How can descriptions from witnesses be so different regarding age?

witnesses described who they saw around the bridge at that time, or who was leaving the bridge. We don’t know if they describe the killer. They describe the people they saw. And they probably would first notice someone unusual, unknown, and miss/disregard known people around.

I think the second sketch is meant to put pressure on someone. When DC said the person could have traits of both sketches, what does it mean? Two people, maybe? This is my feeling. I think the expectation was, after the young sketch would be unveiled, the family members who knew the story would give out the other person, OBG, to save the NBG. It did not happen. Obviously, the family member decided that to stay away from LE would be the best strategy.

 

[TL4S]

From the podcast, “Scene of the Crime”, Robert Ives, then the Carroll County prosecutor, says

“There is a lot of crime scene evidence. Some of it is somewhat odd. But I will say that any crime scene tends to have odd facts about it. I mean, in real life obviously people don’t kill other people all that often. And this crime scene there is a lot of evidence. There’s a lot of unique facts and, honestly, I’m shocked and I promise you the police are shocked that this wasn’t solved in a day or two. This crime scene was physically strange but that’s for the police to decide and determine what to release and not to release. I’ve said that before. It was very odd.”

I found this pretty interesting. The part about the crime scene being “physically strange” and then immediately talking about the police making the decision about releasing evidence made me think that Ives felt there were things at the crime scene that, if released, someone in the public might identify. Whether that would be actual physical objects or how something was done(an odd way of tying something perhaps) we don’t know. This only makes me believe even more strongly that more evidence needs to be released. Do I think that will happen? No. Maybe at the 30 year anniversary. Just my thoughts.

These are curious statements. I think back to how LE requested PE's DNA and autopsy report. I'm not suggesting PE as a suspect, I'm looking at why an autopsy report would be pertinent, and how that correlates to a "physically strange" crime scene.

Maybe there was evidence of something unique to the killer aside from his DNA, yet something that would be identifiable through an autopsy: an issue apparent in the footprints, a hair sample indicating a rare disease, medication, or drug use, or clues to certain behaviors that can be connected to an illness, injury, lifestyle, or genetic composition, etc. There could be a thousand examples.

Even the creek crossing itself is odd. I just hope this means they have enough evidence to pin the person once they have him.

 

[MJPeony]

I've been catching up on this thread so forgive me for replying to an "old" comment, I felt this was semi important to mention. Kelsi did an interview with the Crawlspace podcast, the same guys that do Missing Mayra Murray. she mentioned there's still a concerning number of the locals never heard of this case. she said at her college, she still hands out flyers and plays the audio and video for people that haven't heard it yet.

Yes, I can see how there would be people at her college who hadn’t heard of the case. Although I have a REALLY hard time believing there are locals in the dark. The latest HLN podcast states that when the girls went missing that first night basically the entire town came out to search. They said that when something like that happens, Delphi is the type of small town to support each other, and that “everyone knows everyone, or at least knows a person that knows that person” (approximate quote there).

I personally think the people who LE were addressing in their latest presser already know about the case. I think they were speaking to very specific people, and Carter even said “we likely have interviewed you”. So, JMO, the key to solving this case will not come from national exposure through Walsh’s show.

But I don’t mean to criticize the show being done and aired. I think it’s great they are doing it, if nothing else than to just get these girls’ memory honored and their story told. And sure, maybe it will put the heat on the perp or his family/friends. I just don’t think the show will suddenly produce a tip from someone who hasn’t heard about the case.

I sound like a Debbie Downer!- not trying to be. Just a bit discouraged that there doesn’t seem to be any movement since April.



MOO.

 

[carbuff]

I still can't reason with why the killer had to corner them on the bridge. There are so many other places even right there within the trail system. But what really bugs me is the fact that he killed them and left them there. It really makes me wonder if he was just on foot with no vehicle. Like someone who lives right there within a mile walking distance. 3 yrs. later and I just can't shake this thought.

This has always been at the back of my mind as well. I think I'd go up to a couple of miles, assuming that someone walking in the park might be likely to be more comfortable walking--but even a mile radius includes a whole bunch of possibilities.

 

[JnRyan]

witnesses described who they saw around the bridge at that time, or who was leaving the bridge. We don’t know if they describe the killer. They describe the people they saw. And they probably would first notice someone unusual, unknown, and miss/disregard known people around.

I think the second sketch is meant to put pressure on someone. When DC said the person could have traits of both sketches, what does it mean? Two people, maybe? This is my feeling. I think the expectation was, after the young sketch would be unveiled, the family members who knew the story would give out the other person, OBG, to save the NBG. It did not happen. Obviously, the family member decided that to stay away from LE would be the best strategy.

ISP 1st Sgt Holeman stated it took weeks or even months to do the first sketch or the one that is sometimes referred to as OBG. He stated it came from more than just one witness and they called those witnesses back more than once to go over results. If I had to guess I would bet LE asked for those who were out on the trails that day AND the parking lots AND driving on nearby roads between certain hours, such as between noon and 5 PM as an example. Then asked them to list the folks they knew or recognized and then to describe those who they believed were strangers. IOW, LE wanted an outline of who was at the trails. What is interesting to me is the second sketch released in 2019 was done very early on (17 February). What was there about that sketch that they came up with it so quickly as opposed to the weeks or months for the 2nd sketch? And then LE comes back to it over 2 years later? ISP Superintendent Carter will not reveal why or what prompted them to release that second sketch.