Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[What if...]

Snipped for focus:

For quite some time, I've considered a scenario much like this, except I don't think he ordered them to do anything. What if right after the bridge video, the girls decided to avoid an encounter with him. Clearly he made them uncomfortable. The only way back to their pick up location was by going below the bridge and crossing the creek. In this scenario, BG would have recrossed the bridge, watching them the entire time, and taken the woods on the north side of the creek, meeting up with them somewhere up the hill from the cs, thus, "down the hill." I'm not sure anyone agrees with me, but especially with headphones, I think the audio sounds very near to running water.

The problem with this scenario is it doesn't necessarily jive with some of LE's comments. Riley has said BG had to know where and where not to cross the creek, and Leazenby has said BG must know the area to lead the girls where nobody could see them. In my over-analytical mind, I can say Riley meant BG crossed at some point after the murder on his way out, and Leazenby led them from the woods north of the trail, but maybe I'm reaching.

I really wouldn’t consider much of anything as teaching at this point.
My only thought on “he had to know where to cross” is that he told the girls where to cross if he didn’t cross himself. But then, how would LE know that?? Too many unanswered questions to come up with a truly solid hypothesis.

A truly frustrating case at all levels.

 

[What if...]

That's an excellent idea!

I agree - excellent idea!!

 

[Falling Down]

I would also be curious to know if anyone was asking around. Even if he'd lived there as a kid, things change and he'd maybe need directions.

My feeling is that BG was familiar with the trail somewhat already because it seems he knew how to corner the girls. Basically, he knew that once they were on the south side of the bridge, they had nowhere to go. The creek served as a barrier, and the trail virtually ended with very few options, so all he had to do was block their way back on the bridge. That's maybe how one man could control the situation. To me, him cornering them says more about him than the actual cs. JMO

I've maintained for some time that he wanted someone to end up at the SE end of the bridge that day, so he could corner them. BG probably thought he hit the jackpot when two juveniles turned up there with no adults around, and no one was parked at the small parking area where they were dropped off, those factors played into his success that day and ultimately led to the girls not being found until the next day.

I get a little worked up thinking about how if the girls had treated the situation just a little differently they would be alive today, and BG could very well be in prison. At the same time, I could see myself at the end of the bridge thinking "WTH is this guy doing?".

JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

To me, him cornering them says more about him than the actual cs. JMO

Strategic thinking, perhaps like an experienced team athlete in a sport, that requires verrry quick and strategic planning? MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have wondered many times if he has gone back up to the crime scene to relive it. Money was granted to put up trail cams to make the trail safer but I don’t know if they are operational yet. I think it would be risky for him to go back perhaps he doesn’t feel the need because of a “trophy” he has kept.

Maybe, he was even "brave" and above all always willing to take risks and was there after the crime. The bridge was closed, AFAIK. He could have walked the trails, maybe in female companionship. If a surveillance camera had a pic of him/them, he would have known a "plausible" explanation for LE ("plausible" only because he is, who he is). Maybe his thought was: If I walk the trail after the crime, LE would be even more encouraged, that I am the last one, who could be the double killer. MOO

 

[Laughing]

Strategic thinking, perhaps like an experienced team athlete in a sport, that requires verrry quick and strategic planning? MOO

Soccer Mom here, we raise all-state defenders in this house, and yes I've wondered about that.

Keep in mind that likely Abby & Libby would have stayed together over any other options: controlling one was likely controlling both.

JMHO YMMV

 

[Charlot123]

So, we can assume till the cows come home.
What I see, the girls are dead, the relatives are interviewing the police (weird!), lots of podcasts, money for the new park, sensationalsized crime.
The superintendent is politically astute and very obstinate. All I can say. I also feel that there could be a better detective, even from his own team.
I don't expect this case to be solved, seeing the way it is going. I am drawn to it because it is so strange, but I am hopeless.

Once again - heard DC being interviewed by KG (or at least, she asked him some questions) and thought, weirdness abound. Her own dad has been neither seen nor heard. I am not in any way criticizing him. It probably has to be so. But I have to.say - with two family members like this, the situation when DC is in the same podcast with the family, looks odd.
I view it as DC's mistake.

 

[nunyabiz750]

Good point.

It’s like a cow’s opinion. It doesn’t matter. It’s moo.

 

[mom2chloe]

So, we can assume till the cows come home.
What I see, the girls are dead, the relatives are interviewing the police (weird!), lots of podcasts, money for the new park, sensationalsized crime.
The superintendent is politically astute and very obstinate. All I can say. I also feel that there could be a better detective, even from his own team.
I don't expect this case to be solved, seeing the way it is going. I am drawn to it because it is so strange, but I am hopeless.

Once again - heard DC being interviewed by KG (or at least, she asked him some questions) and thought, weirdness abound. Her own dad has been neither seen nor heard. I am not in any way criticizing him. It probably has to be so. But I have to.say - with two family members like this, the situation when DC is in the same podcast with the family, looks odd.
I view it as DC's mistake.

I wish someone with vast experience who is not from Delphi would offer fresh eyes on this case because I truly believe that at a minimum is what it will take to solve this case and bring closure. does anyone know if the John Walsh special on this case has aired because i cannot find it? I wish Mark Fuhrman or someone like him would step up and investigate further otherwise I would think BG will never be held accountable ugh

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It's the big grain terminal on 300. You know where the CPS building is on that road the look acroos the road in the opposite direction to the new highway and it is right there. I'll see if I can post a link.

Delphi Grain Elevator - The Andersons Trade Group

Great! Thanks! I know exactly where you’re talking about!

 

[BNA]

So, we can assume till the cows come home.
What I see, the girls are dead, the relatives are interviewing the police (weird!), lots of podcasts, money for the new park, sensationalsized crime.
The superintendent is politically astute and very obstinate. All I can say. I also feel that there could be a better detective, even from his own team.
I don't expect this case to be solved, seeing the way it is going. I am drawn to it because it is so strange, but I am hopeless.

Once again - heard DC being interviewed by KG (or at least, she asked him some questions) and thought, weirdness abound. Her own dad has been neither seen nor heard. I am not in any way criticizing him. It probably has to be so. But I have to.say - with two family members like this, the situation when DC is in the same podcast with the family, looks odd.
I view it as DC's mistake.

Raises more questions. That's all it does.

The behavior you cite should have ended before it started. No amount of handwaving is going to change my opinion of what this part of the story is all about.

 

[Pds]

Think I've been over-foccusing on this case. After listening to the latest podcasts I can't in my head separate the voice of Carter and the voice saying 'down the hill'.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

I’ve been following this thread for awhile, and I have to say some of these recent posts are fresh ideas that are thought provoking. Much more enjoyable than watching entire threads discussing the possibility of a puppy or baby goat in BG’s jacket!

Just a few random thoughts I would like to inject into the conversation...

Regarding the creek crossing - I’m still not convinced that BG did in fact cross the creek. What if he confronted the girls at the end of the bridge, and acting in an authoritative manner, told them they weren’t allowed to be on the bridge? He could have told them where they should cross the creek in order to get back to their pickup spot. This would have funneled them straight to the area they were murdered. He could have watched from the bridge, and knowing the embankment was steep, he would have had plenty of time to cross back over the bridge and cut them off.

If he did cross the creek, there’s been a lot of talk about how his clothing appears to be layered. I’ve wondered if perhaps he had on a pair of waders that fishermen often wear?

As far as finding a way out without being seen, I think we should consider that he may have simply cut through the woods in the most direct route to his escape. I used to hunt on a fairly regular basis and foot paths were rarely used. With a little bit of camouflage, a person may not be noticed at all even if they were only a few yards off of the trail.

I haven’t had a chance to look into it, but in wondering about a connection to the IA case, are there any colleges fairly close to where the girls were abducted? I’ve wondered if the perp could be a college professor, or perhaps a student in IA that is now a professor in IN. IMO, is the two cases are connected, there’s definitely a professional connection. Perhaps a truck driver, but it could really be any profession that could be tied in to both general locations.

Just some random food for thought...

And all just MOO....

Until recently, I didn’t know much about the Iowa murders, but I did a bit of reading up on that case after they kept getting mentioned in relation to Delphi.
I don’t have anything of substance to add, other than how striking the similarities are between the two cases. I know LE said they don’t believe there is a connection between the two crimes, but does anyone know of similar murders that have occurred in the Midwest between the the time of the Iowa murders and Delphi?

 

[Yemelyan]

Until recently, I didn’t know much about the Iowa murders, but I did a bit of reading up on that case after they kept getting mentioned in relation to Delphi.
I don’t have anything of substance to add, other than how striking the similarities are between the two cases. I know LE said they don’t believe there is a connection between the two crimes, but does anyone know of similar murders that have occurred in the Midwest between the the time of the Iowa murders and Delphi?

Some people think the murder of Alicia Hummel in 2015 bears some resemblances to the Delphi case.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

I agree the relationship between DC and the families are a bit...odd. Not suspicious. Just different than what we are used to seeing in similar cases where a clear professional line exists. I have no opinion or theory as to why DC is as emotionally involved as he is, but I do agree it seems odd from an outside perspective.

ETA: I would be interested in knowing what you mean when you say, “with two family members like this...”

 

[TheVisual]

Snipped for focus:

For quite some time, I've considered a scenario much like this, except I don't think he ordered them to do anything. What if right after the bridge video, the girls decided to avoid an encounter with him. Clearly he made them uncomfortable. The only way back to their pick up location was by going below the bridge and crossing the creek. In this scenario, BG would have recrossed the bridge, watching them the entire time, and taken the woods on the north side of the creek, meeting up with them somewhere up the hill from the cs, thus, "down the hill." I'm not sure anyone agrees with me, but especially with headphones, I think the audio sounds very near to running water.

The problem with this scenario is it doesn't necessarily jive with some of LE's comments. Riley has said BG had to know where and where not to cross the creek, and Leazenby has said BG must know the area to lead the girls where nobody could see them. In my over-analytical mind, I can say Riley meant BG crossed at some point after the murder on his way out, and Leazenby led them from the woods north of the trail, but maybe I'm reaching.

It seems more logical to me that Libby probably knew where she and Abby could cross the stream because she had been there(to the trails and across the bridge) sometime during the summer. She may have either played in the water or crossed it herself at some point in time. BG might have gotten them "down the hill" and had plans down there and they took off running and across the stream with him in hot pursuit. JMO

 

[JnRyan]

Some people think the murder of Alicia Hummel in 2015 bears some resemblances to the Delphi case.

I had to look it up. I remember the murder, but I don't remember anyone mentioning a connection. After looking at her thread on here I see where some think a connection is possible.
Found Deceased - IA - Alicia Hummel, 29, Sioux City, 1 Jun 2015

 

[Falling Down]

I had to look it up. I remember the murder, but I don't remember anyone mentioning a connection. After looking at her thread on here I see where some think a connection is possible.
Found Deceased - IA - Alicia Hummel, 29, Sioux City, 1 Jun 2015

I first became aware of it after the Delphi murders, lots of similarities, and despite the fact she suffered awful injuries in the assault, the CoD was drowning in the Missouri R.

The main similarity for me is a secluded spot by a waterway.

JMO

 

[Ozoner]

It seems more logical to me that Libby probably knew where she and Abby could cross the stream because she had been there(to the trails and across the bridge) sometime during the summer. She may have either played in the water or crossed it herself at some point in time. BG might have gotten them "down the hill" and had plans down there and they took off running and across the stream with him in hot pursuit. JMO

Very possible.
I wonder whether LE was able to tell from footprint evidence whether the girls were running at any point.

 

[GMG1999]

So, we can assume till the cows come home.
What I see, the girls are dead, the relatives are interviewing the police (weird!), lots of podcasts, money for the new park, sensationalsized crime.
The superintendent is politically astute and very obstinate. All I can say. I also feel that there could be a better detective, even from his own team.
I don't expect this case to be solved, seeing the way it is going. I am drawn to it because it is so strange, but I am hopeless.

Once again - heard DC being interviewed by KG (or at least, she asked him some questions) and thought, weirdness abound. Her own dad has been neither seen nor heard. I am not in any way criticizing him. It probably has to be so. But I have to.say - with two family members like this, the situation when DC is in the same podcast with the family, looks odd.
I view it as DC's mistake.

I have gone back and forth on this thinking he was not local to Delphi and then he had to be local, to now back to not being local. Maybe familiar with the area, but not living there. It's hard to believe that he could be living in Delphi this whole time with the small town and no one recognize him with the photos, video and voice that we have. I do find it odd that the family is asking questions of LE in the podcast. LE seems to say the crime scene was odd at times. I think everything about this is odd. I think it's odd that for there to be so much evidence at the scene, in a small town that we haven't solved it. But I also find it odd that they called off the search that night.