Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[heartgoesout]

IMO: The pressers and information from LE aren't for "us." The primary goal is to progress the case. To find the perp and solve the case. Everything LE says publicly is mainly speaking to the murderer, with the intention of sending him a message. It doesn't matter if we like what LE says or doesn't say. So we can complain and bait and criticize all we want. We don't know a fraction of what LE does. They have a purpose in their messages, and it's not to satisfy us.

You get it. Right on. imo of course.

 

[heartgoesout]

I'm interested in learning more about that. Link?

I don't have a link. It has been discussed on all of the many, many different social media outlets. A quick search and I'm sure you'll find a plethora of discussions on it.

 

[ReadySet]

There are a lot of things in a lot of social media outlets about this case. Can't take it as credible if no msm link. JMO

I don't have a link. It has been discussed on all of the many, many different social media outlets. A quick search and I'm sure you'll find a plethora of discussions on it.

 

[Falling Down]

Quoted bbm and a thank you for opening this line of discussion. It gave me an idea.

Do you think there is any chance at all they are doing this for a reason?

Perhaps this approach is being done to determine who is hanging onto every single word they say (other than us WS'ers)

It would be smart for LE to dangle these little carrots and see if someone squeaks out with some info they deliberately haven't released.

It is for certain going to rev up the rumor mill and encourage wild speculation by making these statements....but maybe they are waiting for someone to mention/suggest something that they would have no way of knowing unless they had been there with Abby and Libby that day. Something no one would ever think of (including us WS'ers)

Just a few thoughts....speculation...etc.
JMO

For some time I thought that's why they've taken that tack in their approach RE: information.

In more recent times, I just think they have very little to go on.

I hope they are doing it for a reason.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Not sure they were actually at the crime scene searching but a searcher knocked and asked RL at 6.30 pm for permission to search his land. So did they search it then and there or go home and come back at midday the next day? There were searchers out all night searching. Also some of Libby's family knocked on doors at that end of the bridge too.

Now we are told it was a strange crime scene with 3 signatures. So is that it? Do those signatures match any other crime scenes? Is there usable DNA? Who are the 3 or 4 POIs left? All these podcasts and specials are really pointless now IMO.

RL has around 40 acres, some of it in the gorge, and much of that terrain would ba dangerous in those conditions. Even if half of his land was searched at some point that evening, I'm picturing a quick sweep through one or two parts of the property, then the searchers probably got out of there.

Break in the Case? Cops Searching Property Where Bodies of Indiana Hikers Were Found

Where the girls were found is just under 3/8 of a mile from the NW approach to the bridge, on foot. Videos I've seen posted of the area of the CS indicates substantial undergrowth in the Summer months, not so much in February obviously but there is a lot of scrub that time of year, in that gorge. Let's say no searchers walked the trail from roughly where the bridge is, to the CS, in the dark. Coming from that direction would be a totally different perspective per the terrain and conditions. Coming down from RL's upper lands, from the top of the gorge down to the creek, searchers could gave been within feet of the girls, but because of where they were found (clump of trees, this has been confirmed by multiple sources), and possible efforts of concealment by the perp, they may have walked right past them.

One MSM interview indicated some young searchers went to RL's early in the evening, I'm guessing maybe 6 people or so. Not lots of people or hundreds, there's no way a lot of people were on his property that night searching. It's like the false report of "lots of kids at the bridge area" when the girls were dropped off, which is 100% false.

There were people searching late, I don't know how many or where they were searching in fact "searching" could mean Delphi, surrounding county roads, we don't know. A news crew from Indy was there for a 5AM news cast. At that hour a day after the disappearance, there was no sense on the part of the MSM report that anything bad had happened to the girls.

JMO

 

[crhedBngr]

Signature signs? Interesting. When I think of “signature,” serial killer immediately comes to mind.

Yes, agree.

JMVHO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This morning I was watching HLN network and about 10:30 the anchor was talking to the DA that retired about 10 mnths after the murders. I forgot his name but I'm sure it's here in the threads because I remember the conversations about him. I can't link this msm info because it was live but I do think it will be in the next podcast. Anyway, to paraphrase closely what he said: he felt there were three signature signs left at the crime scene. He would not say what those were; stated it was up to the state police to release that info. So I wondered, if he left signature signs, doesn't sound like a first time killer. It was just interesting. moo

bbm
If we would know those signature signs, I bet, we here on WS would find the meaning of the signs in a flash, now after 3 years of research. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Does anyone have a link to where Ives is saying about these signatures?

No link but below is the source.

This morning I was watching HLN network and about 10:30 the anchor was talking to the DA that retired about 10 mnths after the murders. I forgot his name but I'm sure it's here in the threads because I remember the conversations about him. I can't link this msm info because it was live but I do think it will be in the next podcast. Anyway, to paraphrase closely what he said: he felt there were three signature signs left at the crime scene. He would not say what those were; stated it was up to the state police to release that info. So I wondered, if he left signature signs, doesn't sound like a first time killer. It was just interesting. moo

 

[tresir2012]

Didn't RL have a lot of acreage? I really doubt it was searched on the 13th. because of it being dark.

So I wonder why did someone ask him at 6.30 pm when he got home?

 

[tresir2012]

bbm
If we would know those signature signs, I bet, we here on WS would find the meaning of the signs in a flash, now after 3 years of research. MOO

We can probably guess maybe body posing, covering or part concealing of the bodies and items left at the scene. Didn't Carter say something like "you left something behind"?

 

[tresir2012]

RL has around 40 acres, some of it in the gorge, and much of that terrain would ba dangerous in those conditions. Even if half of his land was searched at some point that evening, I'm picturing a quick sweep through one or two parts of the property, then the searchers probably got out of there.

Break in the Case? Cops Searching Property Where Bodies of Indiana Hikers Were Found

Where the girls were found is just under 3/8 of a mile from the NW approach to the bridge, on foot. Videos I've seen posted of the area of the CS indicates substantial undergrowth in the Summer months, not so much in February obviously but there is a lot of scrub that time of year, in that gorge. Let's say no searchers walked the trail from roughly where the bridge is, to the CS, in the dark. Coming from that direction would be a totally different perspective per the terrain and conditions. Coming down from RL's upper lands, from the top of the gorge down to the creek, searchers could gave been within feet of the girls, but because of where they were found (clump of trees, this has been confirmed by multiple sources), and possible efforts of concealment by the perp, they may have walked right past them.

One MSM interview indicated some young searchers went to RL's early in the evening, I'm guessing maybe 6 people or so. Not lots of people or hundreds, there's no way a lot of people were on his property that night searching. It's like the false report of "lots of kids at the bridge area" when the girls were dropped off, which is 100% false.

There were people searching late, I don't know how many or where they were searching in fact "searching" could mean Delphi, surrounding county roads, we don't know. A news crew from Indy was there for a 5AM news cast. At that hour a day after the disappearance, there was no sense on the part of the MSM report that anything bad had happened to the girls.

JMO

A lot of it is just flat pasture though which would not take long to search with a walk thru or ATV. The creek banks were searched but mainly downstream IMO. I wonder if anyone parked in the cemetery to search the night before?

This should be the link about RL explaining a neighbour called at 6.30 pm to ask permission to search. That searcher was one of the party that found the girls. Has there ever been a transcript done of this interview?

Delphi man shows CBS 4 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Listening to latest episode of the “Down the Hill” podcast.

There’s a LOT going on in this episode, but it’s very late here, so I’m going to wait until the sun is up to attempt to make any sense of it.

All I gotta say now is holy moly...

 

[TandraJones]

Listening to latest episode of the “Down the Hill” podcast.

There’s a LOT going on in this episode, but it’s very late here, so I’m going to wait until the sun is up to attempt to make any sense of it.

All I gotta say now is holy moly...

I'm at work, is it possible to get a small summary?

 

[Thelastleg]

bbm
If we would know those signature signs, I bet, we here on WS would find the meaning of the signs in a flash, now after 3 years of research. MOO

I would totally agree that if the signature was disclosed, it might ring alarm bells. However, maybe this is the information that LE is keeping secret, so that they don't receive false confessions or other weird stuff. If it was widely known, the perpetrator would have a heads up and be able to construct an alibi or defence for his actions.
I do think LE should release more facts that aren't something that only the perp would know, for example right or left handed. Anything general that might make people who have a suspicion and haven't called it in for fear of concerns being too vague.
MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I think part of it has to do with the fact that she lives outside the Delphi area. I believe I read it was something like 2 hours away. Even when they called her when the girls were missing there wasn't much she could do by the time she packed up and headed out it would have been past dark and she would have been brought up to speed. It would likely have been 8 PM or later by the time she is on the trails. That distance makes it inconvenient for the media, too. They may not want to drive 2 hours for just one person and Carrie may not want to do a phone interview not knowing for sure who is on the other end of the call.

That said, this isn't days or weeks since the murders. It's over 3 years. And I don't hear the family members mention her. Granted there is an uncle in the area and he isn't seen much. And Liberty's father doesn't appear in the media. These may be by their choice. Carrie sounds like she is willing to talk about it. I wonder if LE and her family doesn't mention her because she might be at odds with the rest of the family members on her opinion of the investigation. That is, she isn't a "team player", for lack of a better term.

I'm also starting wonder why no Carrie. Sooner or later she is going to be heard.

She is the mother. And from what I understand, Libby loved her. TV has enough money to buy one more ticket.

 

[Charlot123]

It was quite basic. They kept mentioning 2 years ago so I thought it was a rerun. They do not use the "guys" part of the audio. Just when I was ready to think it's old, Anna said it's been three years.
Mike Patty tells Dr Oz when asked that they have not seen the autopsy as it was sealed.

That’s OK. I have skeptical attitude to Dr. Oz, but he has huge exposure. And it is exactly what is needed for the country to know about/be reminded of the case. Better than billboards.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

"he felt there were three signature signs left at the crime scene"
What? Sounds like kind of a d*bag thing to say, as in: I know things, but I can't tell you. Tee hee.

I remember, that within the first days it was said, they had found "biological" evidence and because of the terrain/conditions I immediately thought of human feces. The link (to this one sentence) doesn't exist any more since 2017. Why do we have never heard of the term "biological evidence" again, I wonder .....

https://www.researchgate.net/public...uspect_with_a_Crime_Scene_Report_of_Two_Cases

 

[Marzipan]

I remember, that within the first days it was said, they had found "biological" evidence and because of the terrain/conditions I immediately thought of human feces. The link (to this one sentence) doesn't exist any more since 2017. Why do we have never heard of the term "biological evidence" again, I wonder .....

https://www.researchgate.net/public...uspect_with_a_Crime_Scene_Report_of_Two_Cases

Gross, but there was an arson case in Minnesota solved that way. Two guys and one had to go. In other cases it’s either had-to-go or went as part of the signature and power and other psychology.
Could be the case here. Who knows.
Will listen to new podcast today.

 

[holtzmann]

So I wonder why did someone ask him at 6.30 pm when he got home?

I mean, the answer is probably as simple as police needed to get his permission for a search of his property before they could step onto it, regardless of whether or not they organized the search for that evening or the next day. He was home, he was accessible. He might not have been the next morning when searching resumed. Occam's razor.

I have seen back and forth reports on whether or not his land was searched that night. I'm hesitant to speculate because there seems to be some debate. IMO, it only matters if it is TRUE that the girls were deposited there in the time frame between the first search of the property and the second. That's the key to determining one crucial aspect of the timeline.

 

[TL4S]

I would totally agree that if the signature was disclosed, it might ring alarm bells. However, maybe this is the information that LE is keeping secret, so that they don't receive false confessions or other weird stuff. If it was widely known, the perpetrator would have a heads up and be able to construct an alibi or defence for his actions.
I do think LE should release more facts that aren't something that only the perp would know, for example right or left handed. Anything general that might make people who have a suspicion and haven't called it in for fear of concerns being too vague.
MOO

LE may or may not have more they could release, but my feeling is that their hope lies with the video and audio. It's key evidence. DC has said many times during interviews that a family member would know another family member seeing them "without a head," which I think just means the bridge video, even without a clear face, should still be recognizable to people who know him well.

If the people who truly know him won't come forward, no amount of information will help, IMO. DC spoke directly to both BG and the person(s) who knows at the last PC. Maybe LE feels strongly that someone knows, so that's what they're betting on instead of the public? IDK

Plus, LE thinks BG wants to know what they know. Not releasing more info (which LE must feel wouldn't move the case forwards, anyway) avoids giving BG what he wants most.