Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[minazoe]

I don't know if we should speculate a leg injury , although they said to study his Gait.. I feel like the odd protusion or whatever it is you see in the shot, can be a weapon strapped or taped to his lower leg. or even thigh. Isn't it so bizarre the way
every aspect of the photo is arguable.

his hair can be long topped hipster haircut for sure.

you can look again and again and still question if your eyes are deceiving you.

we will get him. wait.

mOO

 

[MeadowMuffin]

I agree, and would like to add that it is unlikely BG has a limp as he managed to traverse the bridge and coral two athletic girls down steep terrain, and possible lead or chase them through a creek. I just cant comprehend how someone who is disabled or limited in mobility could accomplish that, even with a weapon. If he had an injury to his knee/leg I would assume that the girls could have outrun him.

You may be surprised what a person who limps can do. My dh has had rheumatoid arthritis for years and takes 5 different meds to decrease his immune response from it, including injections. He cut 10 cords of wood this fall, from 8 foot logs to 2 foot logs, split them, and stacked them. He's 74. When it snows he plows out several neighbors driveways, because they're at work and he wants to make their lives easier. Our own drive is .25 miles, one disabled neighbors is a half mile. He got stuck one day and had to walk home a half mile until I spotted him on the road and got the car to bring him home. That bridge would be nothing for him, except he doesn't like heights!

 

[JnRyan]

JMO - LE has DNA but they don’t know if it’s the killers. Everybody who dropped a cigarette butt, chewed gum, or littered probably left DNA behind. Touch DNA would be all over Abby and Libby’s clothing regardless whether it’s the killer’s or innocently transferred by either direct contact or secondary non-contact.

But DNA is still important because a guilty person being interviewed does not know what LE has found. Does their story collaborate the presence of DNA, if there’s a match? Or do they deny ever being on the trail system, never met Abby or Libby or family members?

Worst case scenario - a local suspect admits to frequently walking the trails/bridge and having had personal contact with Abby or Libby in general. Aside from DNA left by SA, an admission of that sort would easily account for DNA found in the area of the crime scene as it won’t be date-stamped.

In a scenario such as that, LE requires far more evidence than someone who looks like the photo or video with the same sounding voice IF the suspect provides a good reason why his DNA might’ve been found in an outdoor area, a location where the general public regularly frequented. LE requires hard evidence to prove the suspect committed the actual murders and that’s where I think they’re stuck. Which is why they still seek tips, in the hope the suspect has talked.

I agree. I've had these same thoughts on this case.

 

[minazoe]

I always feel deeply that after the search was called off that horrible night. Our BG the loser was in those woods alone with those girls bodies.

why do I think this?

because I don't think he was scared, I don't think he ran away.

I think he stayed and was there during and after the search, even if he remained at some distance. I think he would have wanted to come back.

so if he was there, where was his vehicle? did he stash it somewhere? did he come back another way hide out nearby until the ruckus died down?

was it just luck the girls were not discovered?

I know they can tell a lot from the crime scene. they can tell all about the loser and what his little sexual problems are etc..oh the FBI knows exactly what basic catagory of loser they are dealing with here.

mOO

 

[Michigan]

I always feel deeply that after the search was called off that horrible night. Our BG the loser was in those woods alone with those girls bodies.

why do I think this?

because I don't think he was scared, I don't think he ran away.

I think he stayed and was there during and after the search, even if he remained at some distance. I think he would have wanted to come back.

so if he was there, where was his vehicle? did he stash it somewhere? did he come back another way hide out nearby until the ruckus died down?

was it just luck the girls were not discovered?

I know they can tell a lot from the crime scene. they can tell all about the loser and what his little sexual problems are etc..oh the FBI knows exactly what basic catagory of loser they are dealing with here.

mOO

If he waited and participated in the search, wouldn’t there be blood, mud, water all over him? Seems like he would be quite disheveled.

MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I always feel deeply that after the search was called off that horrible night. Our BG the loser was in those woods alone with those girls bodies.

why do I think this?

because I don't think he was scared, I don't think he ran away.

I think he stayed and was there during and after the search, even if he remained at some distance. I think he would have wanted to come back.

so if he was there, where was his vehicle? did he stash it somewhere? did he come back another way hide out nearby until the ruckus died down?

was it just luck the girls were not discovered?

I know they can tell a lot from the crime scene. they can tell all about the loser and what his little sexual problems are etc..oh the FBI knows exactly what basic catagory of loser they are dealing with here.

mOO

Yes, what a loser, picking on a couple little girls.
He wasn't spotted because, he.fit.right.in. A known. A helpful (oh so helpful), and well known face. Hiding in plain sight.
And someone knows who he is, and isn't speaking up.
A loser and a coward.

But, enough time has gone by now where the shock, disbelief, and denial is wearing off. Reality, and the aftermath is setting in. I think we can count on an anonymous tip, and likely soon.
Tip Line: (844) 459-5786
Indiana State Police: (800) 382-7537
Carroll County Sheriff: (765) 564-2413

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[minazoe]

FROM MICHIGAN
If he waited and participated in the search, wouldn’t there be blood, mud, water all over him? Seems like he would be quite disheveled.

I don't go that far, Im not sure he participated..I think he was hiding and that could be a reason why. He may have shed that layer of bulky clothing, he may have had a change. He may have gone home and walked back, so many things could be, but I think he was there thru the night. doing what? I don't know.

serial killer things.

who ever speculated that his show didn't go as planned when the phone rang , when the girls fought back.. could be right on.

also that the killings happened fast according to the timeline. so in my opinion his main goal was to terrify and murder and then his secondary goal is sexual.
( if he was wearing a camera then I think he made himself a video)

I don't think it was ever his goal to control two girls for a very long period.

what really happened? I don't know. we have nothing on cause or actual TOD.

so this is just my opinion. just my thoughts.

mOO

 

[somequestions]

I agree, and would like to add that it is unlikely BG has a limp as he managed to traverse the bridge and coral two athletic girls down steep terrain, and possible lead or chase them through a creek. I just cant comprehend how someone who is disabled or limited in mobility could accomplish that, even with a weapon. If he had an injury to his knee/leg I would assume that the girls could have outrun him.

When I looked at this case from the perspective of the photos Liberty German captured before she captured the one with the man on the bridge, it left me with the impression that the man on the bridge decided to do what he was going to do even before he stepped out onto the bridge. In the previous earlier photos the man is no where to be seen. At some point the man had to make a decision.

It would be interesting to read what a criminal profiler would say about this case. Unfortunately we do not know anything about the crime scene or the "signatures" left by the killer as detailed by the HLN podcast. I have only read some criminal profiling books. I do not think either sketch released by police is correct and I do not think the killer is from Delphi or the local area. Here is my profile.

I think sometimes you have to try to empathize with the murderer. Think about how you were when you were 13 or 14. I do not want that to come off the wrong way about empathizing, but I think this person dislikes their own identity. They do not like to look at themselves. So murdering children is a way of destroying their own identity. Some people are permanently scarred emotionally or psychologically. Some are scarred physically. And some are both.

If this person is ever caught I think they will end up having either some type of birth defect or disability. Until we find out more about what happened to Abigail Williams and Liberty German or what "signatures" were left at the crime scene, it is hard to come up with a profile.

The crime scene is what tells the story. Without knowing about the crime scene, this profile is just a guess.

 

[minazoe]

well it's not really a profile. there is no amateur profile. it's my take , and probably a pretty good one. I don't empathize with baby killers ..there is nothing to empathize with. they don't have feelings. and many of them have absolutely nothing in their childhoods or backgrounds that explain their desire to murder and torture.

mOO.

 

[heartgoesout]

When I looked at this case from the perspective of the photos Liberty German captured before she captured the one with the man on the bridge, it left me with the impression that the man on the bridge decided to do what he was going to do even before he stepped out onto the bridge. In the previous earlier photos the man is no where to be seen. At some point the man had to make a decision.

It would be interesting to read what a criminal profiler would say about this case. Unfortunately we do not know anything about the crime scene or the "signatures" left by the killer as detailed by the HLN podcast. I have only read some criminal profiling books. I do not think either sketch released by police is correct and I do not think the killer is from Delphi or the local area. Here is my profile.

I think sometimes you have to try to empathize with the murderer. Think about how you were when you were 13 or 14. I do not want that to come off the wrong way about empathizing, but I think this person dislikes their own identity. They do not like to look at themselves. So murdering children is a way of destroying their own identity. Some people are permanently scarred emotionally or psychologically. Some are scarred physically. And some are both.

If this person is ever caught I think they will end up having either some type of birth defect or disability. Until we find out more about what happened to Abigail Williams and Liberty German or what "signatures" were left at the crime scene, it is hard to come up with a profile.

The crime scene is what tells the story. Without knowing about the crime scene, this profile is just a guess.

What makes you feel the killer had in particular a birth defect, or disability?

 

[somequestions]

What makes you feel the killer had in particular a birth defect, or disability?

One time I saw a truck driver who had what looked to me like some type of birth defect. He had small hands and bent legs. I do not know what you would describe it as.

The point is that since I thought it was a birth defect, meaning from birth, I thought to myself that it must have been kind of hard growing up with that type of condition. This is what I meant when I wrote in my previous post about thinking about how you were when you were 13 or 14 years old.

In case you are wondering I submitted this as a tip a few times, but nothing came of it. As for whether or not the unknown suspect in the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German had a birth defect or disability, I do not know. We will not know unless that person is caught someday.

That is how I came up with this profile. So it is based on a bit of confirmation bias. Until we find out more about the crime, I can only guess on a profile.

 

[mom2chloe]

I

He could deliver pizzas for a living, for all we know.

My take is that someone or some people know his identity. What they've done with that info is anyone's guess.

JMO

I really like this idea because in hindsight and in conjunction with the Flora fire many suspected a local business owner. Delphi murders occurred on a Monday prior to the pizza place’s opening time. As dark as it seems, if two pedophiles knew of each other and their similar interests what would prevent them from a conversation or knowledge of such interests being discussed? Far fetched yes but not impossible. We know there are groups of predators online who congregate without our knowledge. What if a pizza guy or delivery guy or more committed both the Flora fire and the Delphi murders? Or two together committed both crimes? Would delivery be available to the bridge? Would delivery guy entice the girls with the down the hill to receive a pizza he delivered?
Edited to add would a pizza delivery guy familiar with the area park at the CPS building and walk the bridge in order to deliver a pizza or otherwise?

 

[minazoe]

Ive thought about this a lot and if I remember my teenage years there would only be one reason to meet some dude you don't really know in a park with a friend would be to try to score some weed. That is the only reason you would perhaps follow an instruction to go down a hill to a place out of sight.

lots of teenagers want to try pot. It's not a scandal and I am not saying this happened.

another very typical pedophile lure is a puppy.. maybe they were told they would be
getting a free puppy and to meet over at the bridge.

teenage girls are always wanting to bring a puppy home..they could say they "found it".
these are crazy ideas I know, but they weren't meeting friends to "party" at the bridge.

teenage girls sometimes want to do secret stuff...like maybe try to get some weed. Or maybe they were hoping a boy they like would be around there that day and they could check him out.

I know I know , they were taking pictures and killing some time, ok. I just know girls. mOO

 

[catch_22]

When I looked at this case from the perspective of the photos Liberty German captured before she captured the one with the man on the bridge, it left me with the impression that the man on the bridge decided to do what he was going to do even before he stepped out onto the bridge. In the previous earlier photos the man is no where to be seen. At some point the man had to make a decision.

It would be interesting to read what a criminal profiler would say about this case. Unfortunately we do not know anything about the crime scene or the "signatures" left by the killer as detailed by the HLN podcast. I have only read some criminal profiling books. I do not think either sketch released by police is correct and I do not think the killer is from Delphi or the local area. Here is my profile.

I think sometimes you have to try to empathize with the murderer. Think about how you were when you were 13 or 14. I do not want that to come off the wrong way about empathizing, but I think this person dislikes their own identity. They do not like to look at themselves. So murdering children is a way of destroying their own identity. Some people are permanently scarred emotionally or psychologically. Some are scarred physically. And some are both.

If this person is ever caught I think they will end up having either some type of birth defect or disability. Until we find out more about what happened to Abigail Williams and Liberty German or what "signatures" were left at the crime scene, it is hard to come up with a profile.

The crime scene is what tells the story. Without knowing about the crime scene, this profile is just a guess.

I'm not following you on the "think about how you were when you were 13 or 14." Are you saying that you think the killer may be 13 or 14? Or that he may have REALLY felt sorry for himself when he was 13 or 14? If the latter is the case, it seems kind of odd that you would choose the exact ages of the victims for your example. Maybe I'm just confused.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't know if we should speculate a leg injury , although they said to study his Gait.. I feel like the odd protusion or whatever it is you see in the shot, can be a weapon strapped or taped to his lower leg. or even thigh. Isn't it so bizarre the way
every aspect of the photo is arguable.

his hair can be long topped hipster haircut for sure.

you can look again and again and still question if your eyes are deceiving you.

we will get him. wait.

mOO

Italicized by me.
Interesting, I saw the same thing on one of prior POIs who I don’t suspect any longer. It looks as if the person took a suspender and has sewn one end to the belt and another to the knee, from inside. Maybe some form of a gun holster, as you have said. I think the locals could tell what it is.

 

[tresir2012]

Agreed!

I agree, and would like to add that it is unlikely BG has a limp as he managed to traverse the bridge and coral two athletic girls down steep terrain, and possible lead or chase them through a creek. I just cant comprehend how someone who is disabled or limited in mobility could accomplish that, even with a weapon. If he had an injury to his knee/leg I would assume that the girls could have outrun him.

What! You agree carbuff is an old fart?
I guess a lot of us are

Well he gets across the bridge seemingly quickly and easily, and he does have a bit of an odd gait or limp but is still agile. I agree he could not have caught and killed two young athletic teens otherwise. There's nothing to tell me he is not in the military. He could still be local, military and overseas serving or have left the area. The confusion around the national billboards yet LE saying he is local is because I am not sure they knew initially and I am still not sure how or why they believe him to be local now. What changed?
MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't think he's overseas..he is not a soldier, his stuff is all inside his jacket, he doesn't even have a vest , he doesn't move like a soldier and if he does have a bum leg he is not serving on anything.

this guy is a child murderer and he is not cut out for military life, he could never
serve with honor and valor...this guy is a loser and I cant wait until they get him..
once they get his face on America's Most Wanted , someone will drop the dime.

it will be totally anonymous and safe and someone will give him up.

no no.. this guy is a guy who can't even get a date with a girl, maybe he has some long suffering wife , but she is oblivious and probably abused.

no, we are going to get the loser. He's toast when we do. mOO

The questioner asked about the flyer suggesting to contact an American Consulate or Embassy and why that could be, so that was the reason for my answer. Why do you think the flyers would ask that?

 

[minazoe]

I wonder if something they found or something he was wearing in the picture, or something that was used in the killing can be traced to the military, or military training.

it may be something they know, that we do not.

but make no mistake, this guy is a 3rd class loser and always will be.

so close to getting caught too. mOO

 

[minazoe]

are there any adult bookstores in Delphi? have they seen the picture of BG? I hope so, because if he lives in Delphi, he might go there, even though you can get it on line, he may buy magazines etc.

Im sure they know where to look for him...mOO

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Ive thought about this a lot and if I remember my teenage years there would only be one reason to meet some dude you don't really know in a park with a friend would be to try to score some weed. That is the only reason you would perhaps follow an instruction to go down a hill to a place out of sight.

lots of teenagers want to try pot. It's not a scandal and I am not saying this happened.

another very typical pedophile lure is a puppy.. maybe they were told they would be
getting a free puppy and to meet over at the bridge.

teenage girls are always wanting to bring a puppy home..they could say they "found it".
these are crazy ideas I know, but they weren't meeting friends to "party" at the bridge.

teenage girls sometimes want to do secret stuff...like maybe try to get some weed. Or maybe they were hoping a boy they like would be around there that day and they could check him out.

I know I know , they were taking pictures and killing some time, ok. I just know girls. mOO

Considering they had such a limited amount of time before DG was to pick them up, I kind of doubt the weed theory. I think it’s more likely they were thinking they were meeting a boy their age that they had talked to online. The more I think about it though, the more I think this was all random and they weren’t planning on meeting up with anyone that day.