Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[soylattesandsleuthing]

DBM double post

 

[MuddyTires]

The questioner asked about the flyer suggesting to contact an American Consulate or Embassy and why that could be, so that was the reason for my answer. Why do you think the flyers would ask that?

It's standard.

Go here, click on any of the postings, scroll down to submit a tip - they all say "If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate."

It's written a little differently in the Abby/Libby posters/postings because there's a dedicated tip-line for that case.


EDIT: By the way, this is off topic to this thread, but in looking at the FBI page, I saw this, which I've never seen before, but obviously is something people should see and share: SEEKING INFORMATION | Federal Bureau of Investigation

 

[MuddyTires]

DBM (double post)

 

[minazoe]

when talking about the murders of two children, I think everyones opinions, experiences and speculations can be valuable , even crazy far flung theories can have a kernel of potential.

even putting the victim in your own shoes, can help you to put yourself in a state of imagining..especially if you have factors in common.

are you young? a female? like photography? outdoor sports? boys? art?

why did they want to go to the bridge and take pictures? ...they were not supposed to go on that bridge , and were they kind of hanging on the bridge waiting for someone who told them to be there?

they were just there to kill some time, but it was planned in advance.

they weren't going to fish, they weren't dressed to impress, they weren't running the dog or working out.....so why? even the scenery was not pretty that time of year... why did they come up with this plan to go there? It just feels way too random.

maybe that's why I am searching so hard for the lure...

Im just not buying their purpose for being there. mOO

 

[JnRyan]

I'm wondering what effect this Covid-19 is going to have on finding the killer. It certainly may make it easier to hide and thus not be out in front of the public. Of course, the flip side is that public places like the Monan High Bridge Trail might be sparsely attended. That is, fewer witnesses and thus he goes on the prowl again.

I just can't help but think this killer has offended before. Maybe some place and time when DNA was not taken from offender? He committed his crime or crimes while a juvenile and maybe the criminal record can't be readily accessed by LE? Yet, I would think that if he did commit a sex related or violent crime wouldn't some member of LE recognize him? That's why I believe this guy has committed a sex related crime before and was not caught. He could have killed before but his victim was a runaway or is a missing person and has not been found. Without a body, a crime scene or even a murder being suspected there is no connection. Perhaps he killed before and covered his tracks? This time, though, he got over confident and had to leave the area without covering up his crime?

 

[JnRyan]

Interesting article here on the use of "guys" when addressing others.
The Problem With ‘Hey Guys’ - The Atlantic - Pocket

It leads me to believe this killer isn't someone likely a coach or teacher. Possibly someone with little contact with the general public?

In any event, the killer is not likely a Southerner. We all say "y'all". I remember when I joined the military and was in the northeast. I actually had folks look at me and say, "So people from the south REALLY do say y'all!" When I met my future in-laws - from the northeast - they said the same thing.

 

[Thelastleg]

I'm wondering what effect this Covid-19 is going to have on finding the killer. It certainly may make it easier to hide and thus not be out in front of the public. Of course, the flip side is that public places like the Monan High Bridge Trail might be sparsely attended. That is, fewer witnesses and thus he goes on the prowl again.

I just can't help but think this killer has offended before. Maybe some place and time when DNA was not taken from offender? He committed his crime or crimes while a juvenile and maybe the criminal record can't be readily accessed by LE? Yet, I would think that if he did commit a sex related or violent crime wouldn't some member of LE recognize him? That's why I believe this guy has committed a sex related crime before and was not caught. He could have killed before but his victim was a runaway or is a missing person and has not been found. Without a body, a crime scene or even a murder being suspected there is no connection. Perhaps he killed before and covered his tracks? This time, though, he got over confident and had to leave the area without covering up his crime?

Your post got me thinking. What if BG became infected with the virus and ended up being swabbed for confirmation. Would that then collect his DNA. If this is what LE are waiting on could it be used as evidence. Just wondering

 

[minazoe]

well the covid19 test isn't a DNA test..but more people will be staying inside and hopefully they will watch AMERICA"S MOST WANTED...recognize this guy as their next door neighbor, cousin , whatever..and decide without reservation to turn him in.

mOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

"Down the hill...."
What a chilling command this has become to anyone acquainted with this case. I know there has been lots of debate over the use of the word "guys", and what that may mean, if anything.

Many have said that the use of "guys" is very common. Perhaps so. However, to me, it seems de-feminizing, or at minimum, gender neutralizing. To me, "guys" would more likely be used where both guys and gals were present in a group. Two girls would be "girls", and the use of "guys" speaks significance to me.

Using the term "guys" to a group of girls is a conscious effort to gender neutralize and not acknowledge the gender of the females. This can be done for politically correct reasons, or I most associate calling girls "guys" in a sports team setting. "O.K. guys, get out there and give it your best!"

I know many of you disagree and consider the use of "guys" just normal and casual. I do not. I think there is more to it, specifically de-feminizing.

Finally, since I don't have much to work with, I thought about the use of the word "hill". Hill isn't necessarily a universally used descriptor in the U.S. There are all sorts of synonyms for "hill" and they are used depending on which region of the U.S. you live. Was it really a "hill", or was it a slope, an embankment, and so forth....Perhaps there is something we can glean from the use of the word "hill", but still rock tumbling that around.

Just a few random thoughts as I think about these two beautiful girls, and how we need to wrap this case up. Abby and Libby, "the two roses". Born on earth, to bloom in heaven.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[somequestions]

I'm not following you on the "think about how you were when you were 13 or 14." Are you saying that you think the killer may be 13 or 14? Or that he may have REALLY felt sorry for himself when he was 13 or 14? If the latter is the case, it seems kind of odd that you would choose the exact ages of the victims for your example. Maybe I'm just confused.

I will make this as simple as I can. I used the ages of 13 or 14 because of the victims in this case. I could vary well have used the ages of 11 or 12 too. My point was that sometimes kids make fun of other kids who have a birth defect or disability. Does the killer have a birth defect or disability? I don't know. I was only trying to add to the discussion.

Is that a reason to kill kids? NO. By empathizing I meant to try and think like the killer, not to feel sorry for what he did. We have no idea why the killer did what he did or even know what exactly he did to Abigail Williams and Liberty German. I probably should not have tried to "profile" the case.

It is my opinion that in order to understand criminal behavior or really any type of human behavior you have to ask yourself why people do what they do. What compels them to make the decisions that they do. That was the only point to my "profile" which is not much of a profile.

For all anyone knows, the killer's motivation in this crime could be completely different from anything I have written above.

 

[curiousgene]

"Down the hill...."
What a chilling command this has become to anyone acquainted with this case. I know there has been lots of debate over the use of the word "guys", and what that may mean, if anything.

Many have said that the use of "guys" is very common. Perhaps so. However, to me, it seems de-feminizing, or at minimum, gender neutralizing. To me, "guys" would more likely be used where both guys and gals were present in a group. Two girls would be "girls", and the use of "guys" speaks significance to me.

Using the term "guys" to a group of girls is a conscious effort to gender neutralize and not acknowledge the gender of the females. This can be done for politically correct reasons, or I most associate calling girls "guys" in a sports team setting. "O.K. guys, get out there and give it your best!"

I know many of you disagree and consider the use of "guys" just normal and casual. I do not. I think there is more to it, specifically de-feminizing.

Finally, since I don't have much to work with, I thought about the use of the word "hill". Hill isn't necessarily a universally used descriptor in the U.S. There are all sorts of synonyms for "hill" and they are used depending on which region of the U.S. you live. Was it really a "hill", or was it a slope, an embankment, and so forth....Perhaps there is something we can glean from the use of the word "hill", but still rock tumbling that around.

Just a few random thoughts as I think about these two beautiful girls, and how we need to wrap this case up. Abby and Libby, "the two roses". Born on earth, to bloom in heaven.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Wow! that's a great observation. We have speculated on the word "guy" a lot but never on the word "hill". To me, "hill" is a common word I use because I grew up in a hilly region, not in the US. I am not sure how do Americans use this word and what it means to them and which region is it commonly used.

 

[mom2chloe]

Your post got me thinking. What if BG became infected with the virus and ended up being swabbed for confirmation. Would that then collect his DNA. If this is what LE are waiting on could it be used as evidence. Just wondering

Great idea except they likely are tossing swabs immediately after testing as they should. I like the thought that it could reveal dna too but in the US it would be illegal and unethical. However, the possibility may exist where they document all the Covid 19 tests into a database to track who exposed relatives and acquaintances may be and perhaps if someone looked into those people and familial DNA an answer might be provided. IMO
I hope this plague goes away quickly but if not who is to say further evidence wouldn’t be documented through necessary or mandatory means?

 

[carbuff]

"Down the hill...."
What a chilling command this has become to anyone acquainted with this case. I know there has been lots of debate over the use of the word "guys", and what that may mean, if anything.

Many have said that the use of "guys" is very common. Perhaps so. However, to me, it seems de-feminizing, or at minimum, gender neutralizing. To me, "guys" would more likely be used where both guys and gals were present in a group. Two girls would be "girls", and the use of "guys" speaks significance to me.

Using the term "guys" to a group of girls is a conscious effort to gender neutralize and not acknowledge the gender of the females. This can be done for politically correct reasons, or I most associate calling girls "guys" in a sports team setting. "O.K. guys, get out there and give it your best!"

I know many of you disagree and consider the use of "guys" just normal and casual. I do not. I think there is more to it, specifically de-feminizing.

Finally, since I don't have much to work with, I thought about the use of the word "hill". Hill isn't necessarily a universally used descriptor in the U.S. There are all sorts of synonyms for "hill" and they are used depending on which region of the U.S. you live. Was it really a "hill", or was it a slope, an embankment, and so forth....Perhaps there is something we can glean from the use of the word "hill", but still rock tumbling that around.

Just a few random thoughts as I think about these two beautiful girls, and how we need to wrap this case up. Abby and Libby, "the two roses". Born on earth, to bloom in heaven.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I'm not going to argue about guys--been over that territory too many times.

But that's a good point about "hill." In the pictures I've seen about the bridge and its environs, there is nothing that I would call a hill.

 

[Charlot123]

Great idea except they likely are tossing swabs immediately after testing as they should. I like the thought that it could reveal dna too but in the US it would be illegal and unethical. However, the possibility may exist where they document all the Covid 19 tests into a database to track who exposed relatives and acquaintances may be and perhaps if someone looked into those people and familial DNA an answer might be provided. IMO
I hope this plague goes away quickly but if not who is to say further evidence wouldn’t be documented through necessary or mandatory means?

Yes, screen the perp for COVID 19 and prescribe life long quarantine since he is the pest

MOO - I think that the LE might easily collect the DNA of all POIs without any drastic measures. However, this method of collection may not stand in court. And mainly, if the clothes the girls wore indeed came from the German house, and the “suspected” DNA was not abundant, it is incredibly hard to link it to the POI’s DNA. Delphi is a small town, and if the perp is local, he can say he ran into Kelsi, or Cory, or someone else. And either way, the burden of proof lies with the LE.

 

[Charlot123]

I will make this as simple as I can. I used the ages of 13 or 14 because of the victims in this case. I could vary well have used the ages of 11 or 12 too. My point was that sometimes kids make fun of other kids who have a birth defect or disability. Does the killer have a birth defect or disability? I don't know. I was only trying to add to the discussion.

Is that a reason to kill kids? NO. By empathizing I meant to try and think like the killer, not to feel sorry for what he did. We have no idea why the killer did what he did or even know what exactly he did to Abigail Williams and Liberty German. I probably should not have tried to "profile" the case.

It is my opinion that in order to understand criminal behavior or really any type of human behavior you have to ask yourself why people do what they do. What compels them to make the decisions that they do. That was the only point to my "profile" which is not much of a profile.

For all anyone knows, the killer's motivation in this crime could be completely different from anything I have written above.

Interesting viewpoint.

I can’t profile, because the profile splits in two.

I am trying to think how the perp feels now. I think he is trying to distance/detach himself, but it doesn’t work out.

I still think that the killer was an adult, but many adults would kill, protecting either themselves or own kids. (An example: an accusation of statutory rape might be enough threat for some people to kill. And even if they think the case might have the chance to stand in court, sometimes the accusation alone leads to loss of reputation, job or family.)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Dbm/Sorry, already posted by someone (Covid19 and DNA).

 

[IceIce9]

"Down the hill...."
What a chilling command this has become to anyone acquainted with this case. I know there has been lots of debate over the use of the word "guys", and what that may mean, if anything.

Many have said that the use of "guys" is very common. Perhaps so. However, to me, it seems de-feminizing, or at minimum, gender neutralizing. To me, "guys" would more likely be used where both guys and gals were present in a group. Two girls would be "girls", and the use of "guys" speaks significance to me.

Using the term "guys" to a group of girls is a conscious effort to gender neutralize and not acknowledge the gender of the females. This can be done for politically correct reasons, or I most associate calling girls "guys" in a sports team setting. "O.K. guys, get out there and give it your best!"

I know many of you disagree and consider the use of "guys" just normal and casual. I do not. I think there is more to it, specifically de-feminizing.

Finally, since I don't have much to work with, I thought about the use of the word "hill". Hill isn't necessarily a universally used descriptor in the U.S. There are all sorts of synonyms for "hill" and they are used depending on which region of the U.S. you live. Was it really a "hill", or was it a slope, an embankment, and so forth....Perhaps there is something we can glean from the use of the word "hill", but still rock tumbling that around.

Just a few random thoughts as I think about these two beautiful girls, and how we need to wrap this case up. Abby and Libby, "the two roses". Born on earth, to bloom in heaven.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Here in Indiana many of us say guys....”hey, guys” and “you guys” all the time.

I teach, and after all the talk here about “guys” I started paying attention to how many times I used “guys.”

To an all female class I am saying “You guys can take a break” and “Ok guys, here’s your homework” and “What do you guys want to do for lunch?”

 

[rainwaterstill]

are there any adult bookstores in Delphi? have they seen the picture of BG? I hope so, because if he lives in Delphi, he might go there, even though you can get it on line, he may buy magazines etc.

Im sure they know where to look for him...mOO

There are at least 2 adult bookstores in Lafayette. I am hopeful that LE talked to the managers and employees long ago, to see if BG may have been one of the regular customers or even worked there at some point.

There is an AVN Adult Entertainment Industry convention (aka "The *advertiser censored* Convention") held every year in mid to late January in Las Vegas. Most of the events are for industry members only, but there are some events ( Meet and Greet Get *advertiser censored* Star's Autograph!!!!) that are open to the general public. It usually attracts over 30, 000 attendees and about 300-400 exhibitors.

 

[mommylicious]

Midwesterner here (Michigan). Neither the use of "guys" nor "hill" seemed off to me. I'd say down the hill vs slope, embankment, etc.

 

[jillybean51]

when talking about the murders of two children, I think everyones opinions, experiences and speculations can be valuable , even crazy far flung theories can have a kernel of potential.

even putting the victim in your own shoes, can help you to put yourself in a state of imagining..especially if you have factors in common.

are you young? a female? like photography? outdoor sports? boys? art?

why did they want to go to the bridge and take pictures? ...they were not supposed to go on that bridge , and were they kind of hanging on the bridge waiting for someone who told them to be there?

they were just there to kill some time, but it was planned in advance.

they weren't going to fish, they weren't dressed to impress, they weren't running the dog or working out.....so why? even the scenery was not pretty that time of year... why did they come up with this plan to go there? It just feels way too random.

maybe that's why I am searching so hard for the lure...

Im just not buying their purpose for being there. mOO

I asked myself this question.Libby was interested in criminology and her class had a lecture on it , a week or so before the murders.My hypnosis was that they were trying to “catch” an online predator.They felt safe being together, and were hoping to get a pic of him.When he arrived , he had to kill them both, but was only expecting one girl.