Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[Ozoner]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

He might be the kind to insert himself into conversations and searches and vigils and such, but I think it's more likely he sits and nods over his beer while others expound.

I tend to agree. He was fairly brusque with Abby and Libby (from what we know), so I don't see him being much of a chatterbox. He may not do much socializing.

 

[carbuff]

I tend to agree. He was fairly brusque with Abby and Libby (from what we know), so I don't see him being much of a chatterbox. He may not do much socializing.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to overgeneralize from the very short snippet, but he doesn't sound excited or panicked or anything--just businesslike, like "this has to be done so let's get it over with."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Unless Abby was being “ the bait”.

Interesting thought .....

 

[TTF14]

With so many kids out of school because of COVID-19, and with temps being so mild in many areas of the country, I feel fearful this monster is going to strike again.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

With so many kids out of school because of COVID-19, and with temps being so mild in many areas of the country, I feel fearful this monster is going to strike again.

If he would be seen and recognized, for example as "a witness" (again?), he would have to answer some more questions than before because of bans on going out/closed shops/closed pubs/closed restaurants/closed companies and so on. His alibi wouldn't be so easy in procuring, like it may have been before for Delphi and before Covid19. Maybe, he is very clever, but even he isn't able to overlook all the possibilities of suddenly closed companies in the area, he would prefer for his next assault. He might run aground on his alibi.

 

[carbuff]

With so many kids out of school because of COVID-19, and with temps being so mild in many areas of the country, I feel fearful this monster is going to strike again.

I share your concern.

 

[curiousgene]

I would like to know, whether a killer/serial killer is speaking of himself - as long as he isn't caught and nobody knows about his deed - as a "killer", "serial killer", "murderer". Or whether he names the not caught perp (who is himself) by a more distanced name like "monster", when in a conversation about a murder/a case with someone. What would killers do? What would profilers think, they do?

Interesting question! I think if he feels remorse or guilt he might use a more distant name. If he thinks highly of himself like he can get away with murder and is smarter than LE, or he committed a perfect crime than he might use the term killer, serial killer. MOO
BTW are you conversing with someone you suspect is a killer? Just curious!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

He might be the kind to insert himself into conversations and searches and vigils and such, but I think it's more likely he sits and nods over his beer while others expound.

Absolutely. He is listening carefully to determine if anyone is getting "hot" so that he can take countermeasures to continue to protect his cover
I'm sure he has a well practiced look of genuine concern and empathy.....of which he doesn't possess.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[minazoe]

if he refers to the killer as a monster , it doesn't exclude him if he's the killer he's just being haughty and thinks he's fooling you.

it won't be a clue...but watch closely for clues...also there is something like splitting
where a psycho will talk about himself in the third person, that person could be
" the monster" etc. so yes it's distancing , but he also knows that he is in fact "the monster"

mOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Interesting question! I think if he feels remorse or guilt he might use a more distant name. If he thinks highly of himself like he can get away with murder and is smarter than LE, or he committed a perfect crime than he might use the term killer, serial killer. MOO
BTW are you conversing with someone you suspect is a killer? Just curious!

To your question: no.

 

[distracted]

I used to buy in to all sorts of fancy complicated profiles and psychological disorders that drive miscreants to be murderous. I think defense attorneys push this narrative to the benefit of their clients.

After 10 years on WS, and countless threads, I don’t believe that anymore. It just gets down to choosing evil. There are a very small percentage of criminals that are schizophrenic and truly aren’t competent. The vast majority are just evil.

amateur opinion and speculation

I agree.

And to add to that, the circumstances are usually very simple; i.e., Occam's Razor.

I tend to think in this case that the obvious was overlooked in the beginning because the obvious was unfathomable. Lots of assumptions were made about where the girls were, including a search that stopped until morning, because the girls were probably "with friends" or "ran away" or "bad things don't happen here".

IMO, this person was very likely "in plain sight" early on but the clues were missed or overlooked. And here we are three years later still searching with very little to go on. ETA: And justice for Abby and Libby still has not been served.

 

[minazoe]

this case makes me so mad.

 

[somequestions]

I'll admit, I've never been comfortable with any attempts to profile BG. IMO, we don't have nearly enough information for that. I do, however, think in those moments just prior to and during the murders, he was a monster. He behaved like a monster, anyway.

I also don't think the FBI would waste their time with profiling if it had no use. As you said, they are simply narrowing down the search field. It's never been regarded as an exact science, but in complex cases like this one, the profile serves as another tool. I don't know. I think of behavioral analysis as being similar to meteorology. It's about patterns and predictions. It's not definitive. JMO

I probably should not have tried to "profile" the case since, as you said, there is not enough information known to make a conclusive profile. So I guess.

All anyone can do without knowing more is try to come up with ideas based on conclusions that are not certain. For example, if this case is linked to the Evansdale, Iowa murders of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins, my profile guess would be that this is probably an older person. Here is why.

If there have not been any other double murders of children between the Evansdale, Iowa case and the Delphi, Indiana case, then that could mean this person waited nearly 4 1/2 years between committing their crimes. That makes me think the killer is patient. Patience usually comes from time and experience. So even though statistics tend to suggest these types of murders are usually younger(in their 20's and 30's), my guess is this person is over 50 years old. But is this an accurate profile? No, because police have not suggested the cases are related in any way. So therefore coming to that conclusion is based again on guessing something as fact when it has not been proven conclusive one way or the other.

No one can really profile this case until there is enough information to come up with to make a profile. My profile is just my opinion that I added to discussion. What I wrote is not profiling. It is just my speculative opinion. None of us can really be correct since none of us knows what the police know regarding the information in this case.

 

[Cutiekitty]

JMO - LE has DNA but they don’t know if it’s the killers. Everybody who dropped a cigarette butt, chewed gum, or littered probably left DNA behind. Touch DNA would be all over Abby and Libby’s clothing regardless whether it’s the killer’s or innocently transferred by either direct contact or secondary non-contact.

But DNA is still important because a guilty person being interviewed does not know what LE has found. Does their story collaborate the presence of DNA, if there’s a match? Or do they deny ever being on the trail system, never met Abby or Libby or family members?

Worst case scenario - a local suspect admits to frequently walking the trails/bridge and having had personal contact with Abby or Libby in general. Aside from DNA left by SA, an admission of that sort would easily account for DNA found in the area of the crime scene as it won’t be date-stamped.

In a scenario such as that, LE requires far more evidence than someone who looks like the photo or video with the same sounding voice IF the suspect provides a good reason why his DNA might’ve been found in an outdoor area, a location where the general public regularly frequented. LE requires hard evidence to prove the suspect committed the actual murders and that’s where I think they’re stuck. Which is why they still seek tips, in the hope the suspect has talked.

Actually if BG admitted to having personal contact with Kelsi that would be an issue too since at least one of them was wearing her clothes.

Very good breakdown of things btw

 

[somequestions]

@somequestions

I was not talking about criminals in general, I was talking about serial killers. People who commit other crimes are not psychopaths in a lot of cases, not even everybody who kills someone is a psychopath. And I don't think there is anything wrong with calling serial killers monsters. There isn't even anything wrong with calling psychopaths monsters (and most of them never kill anyone)- I had a couple of them in my life and that is exactly what they are.

And I agree, it is important to look at the differences and why criminals do what they do, but not really when you are dealing with a psychopath. They will manipulate everyone around them and lie about everything and they will do this to psychologists, psychiatrists and profilers as well. The only thing that is important in those cases is to understand that they are psychopaths.

But yes, there is one thing that I would like to understand as well, like I said, most psychopaths never kill anyone (a lot of them commit all kinds of other crimes though), what is wrong with those who do? I still don't think you can blame bad childhood, etc. for it, it's probably more about the brain and the differences between psychopaths and their brains that turns some into serial killers. Maybe it's like a spectrum. MOO.

I agree that you have to try and look at psychopaths from a psychopathic perspective, if that is possible(which I think is difficult, very difficult because you have to try to NOT think about things). This is why I think it is important to leave emotion out of a case like this.

 

[Imvp2]

I share your concern.

I agree. I think he will be tempted

 

[MistyWaters]

Actually if BG admitted to having personal contact with Kelsi that would be an issue too since at least one of them was wearing her clothes.

Very good breakdown of things btw

Or another possibility, LE believe they have the suspect’s DNA but they were only able to obtain a partial profile.

BBM

“......DNA profiles are often not clean enough to conclusively identify an individual. Ideally, a DNA sample would be complete enough to examine at least 16 different “markers,” points at which an individual’s DNA fingerprint can be sketched out. But when DNA is damaged, as it often is through exposure to moisture or extreme temperatures, only some of these markers will be available, and forensics teams will generate a partial profile. Put simply, if a DNA profile is a complete description of a person’s appearance, a partial profile might describe only one of their traits—hair color, for instance....”
How Forensic DNA Evidence Can Lead to Wrongful Convictions | JSTOR Daily

 

[almagata]

I was watching the "The First 48 Presents: Homicide Squad Atlanta" show on Amazon Prime tonight and they had a rape murder case where they only had a partial DNA profile that was found on the victim. They were eventually able to solve the case using Y chromosome DNA from other items found at the crime scene to id the killer.

DNA science is improving all the time. I'll never give up hope that the Delphi murders will one day be solved.

 

[BNA]

With so many kids out of school because of COVID-19, and with temps being so mild in many areas of the country, I feel fearful this monster is going to strike again.

Would he risk getting himself infected, tho? I am thinking he would not put his "power" at risk. Who can say?

 

[Ozoner]

Would he risk getting himself infected, tho? I am thinking he would not put his "power" at risk. Who can say?

He might go into survivalist mode. I can't cite a source, but I recall reading years ago that many psychopaths are hypochondriacs/mysophobes