Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[Cutiekitty]

Or another possibility, LE believe they have the suspect’s DNA but they were only able to obtain a partial profile.

BBM

“......DNA profiles are often not clean enough to conclusively identify an individual. Ideally, a DNA sample would be complete enough to examine at least 16 different “markers,” points at which an individual’s DNA fingerprint can be sketched out. But when DNA is damaged, as it often is through exposure to moisture or extreme temperatures, only some of these markers will be available, and forensics teams will generate a partial profile. Put simply, if a DNA profile is a complete description of a person’s appearance, a partial profile might describe only one of their traits—hair color, for instance....”
How Forensic DNA Evidence Can Lead to Wrongful Convictions | JSTOR Daily

Also true and I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the case.

 

[Trebor5591]

You have a point here. We need to look at the Flora case closely and see if there is a POI in the case. There is a strong possibility of a connection between the two. Maybe this guy started with arson and after the Flora case felt more confident to target girls in broad daylight. I do think though that this guy is a SK or has upgraded himself to one after having escaped the eyes of LE for his other crimes. MOO.

Where do you see any connection between the two cases?

The Flora case was the arson of a home in the dead of night that resulted in the death of 4 children. LEO says they believe the arson did not specifically target the children who died.

The other was the likely sexual assault and violent murder of two teenage girls in broad daylight.

Other than the fact that they both occurred in Delphi, and the victims were female, I see no similarities at all.

 

[Justice101]

Following

 

[MaJor Tom]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to overgeneralize from the very short snippet, but he doesn't sound excited or panicked or anything--just businesslike, like "this has to be done so let's get it over with."

I feel the same. He seems to be indicating it's a task he is reluctantly having to carry out, but was that part of the calculation? If he'd screamed or shouted at the girls they would have been more likely to run or scatter, but this was a weary 'come on let's do this'. MOO but I believe he knows how to control kids of that age. I know that a coach, teacher, preacher and LE have all been proposed what about someone in a less professional capacity? Say security at a shopping mall or even a night club bouncer.

This makes me think of someone like Levi Bellfield who murdered three women in the UK and raped and attacked many more. Wikipedia says he was a parking enforcer, clamping cars for private landowners. "I don't want to clamp your car but it's my job" kind of thing. What it doesn't tell you was that he was a bouncer at nightclubs, controlling groups of teenager and ejecting drunks. He had a mattress in the back of his van where he 'assisted' drunk girls, most of them too sloshed to know who did what to them so never reported it. His victims ranged from 13 year old schoolgirl snatched off a busy street in daylight to a college student crossing a London park at night. His MO was opportunism, no more no less. Might this be where Carter says 'I know that voice?' BG speaks like anyone who is in a position of authority, disarming and non confrontational but quite definitely in control. This is only my opinion obviously and not targeted at anyone in particular.

 

[rosesfromangels]

He seems to be indicating it's a task he is reluctantly having to carry out,....BG speaks like anyone who is in a position of authority,

Respectfully extracted snippets of your post for focus and commentary response.

I don't hear any reluctance in his voice. I hear an emotionally flat affect; someone lacking empathetic response. He was a killing machine, issuing operational directives to his prey. *Operational*. Someone familiar with operational maneuvers within an organization whether military, public safety, or similar operational capacities.

This guy came well prepared, and seemingly executed a bold capture where discovery was high risk. I ponder whether he had traps of sorts set up to alert him of anyone approaching. It wouldn't surprise me. And, I am completely convinced that one of the girls was catfished; that this was a prearranged meeting.

We will treat him with a similar lack of empathy during court proceedings.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[minazoe]

I always have this feeling of the girls lingering there at the bridge as though they were waiting around..this is based on nothing more than they didn't appear to hurry and were in a place that they were not allowed to be .. taking photos .. apart from each other ...it just feels like a meet up.

mOO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I tend to agree. He was fairly brusque with Abby and Libby (from what we know), so I don't see him being much of a chatterbox. He may not do much socializing.

This moment on the MHB chatter isn't his concern, but to 100% concentrate on a task, which should be done in the most efficient way - like an exceptionally well paid job. Speculation and MOO.

 

[Pavelsky]

Respectfully extracted snippets of your post for focus and commentary response.

I don't hear any reluctance in his voice. I hear an emotionally flat affect; someone lacking empathetic response. He was a killing machine, issuing operational directives to his prey. *Operational*. Someone familiar with operational maneuvers within an organization whether military, public safety, or similar operational capacities.

This guy came well prepared, and seemingly executed a bold capture where discovery was high risk. I ponder whether he had traps of sorts set up to alert him of anyone approaching. It wouldn't surprise me. And, I am completely convinced that one of the girls was catfished; that this was a prearranged meeting.

We will treat him with a similar lack of empathy during court proceedings.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Interesting idea! I tend to think you are right in that the person spoke with such authority that the young and innocent complied! Ex military, police, I don't know ? Could just be someone who grew up being entitled!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I always have this feeling of the girls lingering there at the bridge as though they were waiting around..this is based on nothing more than they didn't appear to hurry and were in a place that they were not allowed to be .. taking photos .. apart from each other ...it just feels like a meet up.

mOO.

Absolutely

 

[MistyWaters]

I feel the same. He seems to be indicating it's a task he is reluctantly having to carry out, but was that part of the calculation? If he'd screamed or shouted at the girls they would have been more likely to run or scatter, but this was a weary 'come on let's do this'. MOO but I believe he knows how to control kids of that age. I know that a coach, teacher, preacher and LE have all been proposed what about someone in a less professional capacity? Say security at a shopping mall or even a night club bouncer.

This makes me think of someone like Levi Bellfield who murdered three women in the UK and raped and attacked many more. Wikipedia says he was a parking enforcer, clamping cars for private landowners. "I don't want to clamp your car but it's my job" kind of thing. What it doesn't tell you was that he was a bouncer at nightclubs, controlling groups of teenager and ejecting drunks. He had a mattress in the back of his van where he 'assisted' drunk girls, most of them too sloshed to know who did what to them so never reported it. His victims ranged from 13 year old schoolgirl snatched off a busy street in daylight to a college student crossing a London park at night. His MO was opportunism, no more no less. Might this be where Carter says 'I know that voice?' BG speaks like anyone who is in a position of authority, disarming and non confrontational but quite definitely in control. This is only my opinion obviously and not targeted at anyone in particular.

Just a small clarification - it wasn’t Carter who said “I know that voice“. It was Carroll County Sheriff Leazenby.

For what it’s worth, at the time it was debatable if he was speaking for himself or if he was simply repeating what he hoped was going through the mind of someone, prompting them to call in a tip. My opinion was the later. The recording is somewhere in or about thread #86 but I’m sorry, I’m unable to locate it for you.

 

[Pavelsky]

Again I feel his voice, his gait, his blue jacket (which I really think is identifiable despite those who Disagree) will solve this case! The jacket is such that a family member would recognize! It is not high end but is a jacket that a working man would wear!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Again I feel his voice, his gait, his blue jacket (which I really think is identifiable despite those who Disagree) will solve this case! The jacket is such that a family member would recognize! It is not high end but is a jacket that a working man would wear!

I think his clothing had been selected specifically with his killing project in mind. Meaning, these weren't clothes he normally wore but rather oversized to accommodate his killing tools.

However, to your point of "working man's clothes", he could have easily purchased them at a supply shop specifically for workmen, or a second hand shop. The pants didn't have a new look to them, but the image isn't crisp so it's hard to tell.

One thing that is still gnawing at me, and it seems like the following speculation was dismissed early on. Still....has any connection to that cemetery been completely cleared? Are people still being buried there, or is it quite old and just "resting" residents? Are there caretakers that actively and routinely take care of the grounds? The proximity to the crime scene is very notable, as we all know. I just can't get rid of the gnawing feeling that there is some sort of a connection to that cemetery beyond proximity. BTW, what is the name of that cemetery? I can only find Funeral Homes close by the trail....must be very old?
Do we know when the last burial took place there? Perhaps the Perp had someone buried there?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Cutiekitty]

Or another possibility, LE believe they have the suspect’s DNA but they were only able to obtain a partial profile.

BBM

“......DNA profiles are often not clean enough to conclusively identify an individual. Ideally, a DNA sample would be complete enough to examine at least 16 different “markers,” points at which an individual’s DNA fingerprint can be sketched out. But when DNA is damaged, as it often is through exposure to moisture or extreme temperatures, only some of these markers will be available, and forensics teams will generate a partial profile. Put simply, if a DNA profile is a complete description of a person’s appearance, a partial profile might describe only one of their traits—hair color, for instance....”
How Forensic DNA Evidence Can Lead to Wrongful Convictions | JSTOR Daily[/QUOTE

dbm - duplicate post

 

[Jax49]

I think his clothing had been selected specifically with his killing project in mind. Meaning, these weren't clothes he normally wore but rather oversized to accommodate his killing tools.

However, to your point of "working man's clothes", he could have easily purchased them at a supply shop specifically for workmen, or a second hand shop. The pants didn't have a new look to them, but the image isn't crisp so it's hard to tell.

One thing that is still gnawing at me, and it seems like the following speculation was dismissed early on. Still....has any connection to that cemetery been completely cleared? Are people still being buried there, or is it quite old and just "resting" residents? Are there caretakers that actively and routinely take care of the grounds? The proximity to the crime scene is very notable, as we all know. I just can't get rid of the gnawing feeling that there is some sort of a connection to that cemetery beyond proximity. BTW, what is the name of that cemetery? I can only find Funeral Homes close by the trail....must be very old?
Do we know when the last burial took place there? Perhaps the Perp had someone buried there?

Amateur opinion and speculation

It is still an active cemetery.

Morning Heights Cemetery in Delphi, Indiana - Find A Grave Cemetery

Memorials in Morning Heights Cemetery - Find A Grave

 

[tresir2012]

Where do you see any connection between the two cases?

The Flora case was the arson of a home in the dead of night that resulted in the death of 4 children. LEO says they believe the arson did not specifically target the children who died.

The other was the likely sexual assault and violent murder of two teenage girls in broad daylight.

Other than the fact that they both occurred in Delphi, and the victims were female, I see no similarities at all.

We have a thread for the Flora fire now, just so everyone knows but I would not be surprised if there was a connection IMO. Too many coincidences.

 

[tresir2012]

I always have this feeling of the girls lingering there at the bridge as though they were waiting around..this is based on nothing more than they didn't appear to hurry and were in a place that they were not allowed to be .. taking photos .. apart from each other ...it just feels like a meet up.

mOO.

Now one thing I wonder. Why did Libby upload the pic of Abby on the bridge to Snapchat especially considering Abby wasnt allowed to be on the bridge. And why did they even cross the bridge knowing Abby should not? That's two things.

 

[cluciano63]

Again I feel his voice, his gait, his blue jacket (which I really think is identifiable despite those who Disagree) will solve this case! The jacket is such that a family member would recognize! It is not high end but is a jacket that a working man would wear!

That is the problem...such an ordinary looking jacket, imo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Again I feel his voice, his gait, his blue jacket (which I really think is identifiable despite those who Disagree) will solve this case! The jacket is such that a family member would recognize! It is not high end but is a jacket that a working man would wear!

I think, without walking on a railroad track and with no injuries left to his right knee/leg, nobody would recognize BG's gait now in 2020. In 2017 on video, I guess, it was difficult to recognize and compare too.
The jacket would only be recognized, if BG had this clothing before the double murder and was seen with it or if he borrowed it from a close relative/friend (perhaps never gave it back).
Perhaps the jacket was "bought" (exchanged?) from the gardener? Or from the property caretaker? A person like this wouldn't have the desire, to call the LE-hotline or FBI or whatever about that. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

We have a thread for the Flora fire now, just so everyone knows but I would not be surprised if there was a connection IMO. Too many coincidences.

I don't see a connection, I'm sorry. You might help me out with your thoughts about the coincidences? Nasty, brutal, from behind, murderous - yes. If the fire was set (like a bomb threat) to disturb the investigation after the double murder - yes. But the fire was months before the killing in the MHB area. Did the killer prove the skills of the investigators first, then went to murder two teenager girls?

 

[TheVisual]

That is the problem...such an ordinary looking jacket, imo.

He still has it because he doesn't throw anything away, but maybe has washed it.