Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[Deleted member 102539]

I am thinking that Libby knew she would get Abby in trouble by uploading that photo so why did she do it. If your daughter posted up a pic of her friend doing something she shouldn't do, why would she do that? Libby was allowed to be there but not Abby.

Perhaps BG was entering the picture and Libby took a pic of Abby for demonstrating, what they were allegedly doing there on the MHB? As I said hundred times already (MOO): Abby isn't looking like a girl, which is happy to have a nice photo done of her. Quite the contrary, I think.

 

[minazoe]

still feels like they were waiting around for someone.

then he shows up

he's like ok guys, down the hill...like its all a plan.


mOO

 

[boredetective]

New here.

couple thoughts that may have been discussed already-

From observing other cases, I believe the police know every single thing on the girls phone- even if apps or messages were deleted. Which lowers the odds of the catfish theory in my opinion.

I think the conference where Carter dramatically calls out BG, he did so purposefully so the room can be scanned by a professional to observe everyone’s behavior- thats why they had everyone sign in, I think his words were very purposeful and said to incite a response.

I don’t think they know much about what the man looks like. Personally his voice, clothing choices and walk sound more mature. I’d say 35-60. But looks younger.

I think the odds of it being a sexual crime are 50/50. Lately I feel if it was sexual in nature BG would have killed again soon after. So now I feel it was more of a hatred towards females or younger girls and a power thing(conference) Probably had a bad relationship with mom growing up, or sisters, or some traumatic childhood romantic rejection. He’s probably sensitive to young girls making fun of him, probably has a weird looking face. Probably a loner, Passionate and a romantic- violent when rejected. He can’t deal with how females have treated him and feels he deserves better. I think he grew up in the area, knows the trails, bridge, creek (fishing with fam), his parents likely have passed or are old and religious(not online)(not In area) I assume he visited the area to live out the fantasy of trapping someone on the bridge- OR the girls saw him and we’re audibly creeped out- and it angered him- saw it as an ideal moment to strike.

He probably doesn’t like to stand out, views himself as a good person, but felt justified in what he did. I assume he’s smart and only acted out his fantasy because he was about to take off for a long trip, job, or enroll into army? (If younger) this was the only day he could act on his fantasy- so he went to the perfect kill spot he had imagined before. Then took off to wherever he was off too, and probably hasn’t returned since. I think he likely kept one memento but got rid of everything else, especially clothes.

I don’t think there was a lot of blood present at crime scene- because it would make escaping more complicated for him. I’d say it was likely strangulation or purposefully drowning them in creek.

these are just my amateur opinion^ Sorry it’s so long lol

 

[minazoe]

let me elaborate
he could have pointed a gun at them. maybe he shows it and says ok guys..down the hill.
or
he shows up and and visually acknowledges them and then just says ok guys ( or whatever) down the hill.

I feel like if he immediately pointed a gun we would hear some sort of exclamation from the girls right away , as this is a shocking event.

so which is it? we don't know anything about COD or what ensued. mOO

 

[minazoe]

New here.

couple thoughts that may have been discussed already-

From observing other cases, I believe the police know every single thing on the girls phone- even if apps or messages were deleted. Which lowers the odds of the catfish theory in my opinion.

I think the conference where Carter dramatically calls out BG, he did so purposefully so the room can be scanned by a professional to observe everyone’s behavior- thats why they had everyone sign in, I think his words were very purposeful and said to incite a response.

I don’t think they know much about what the man looks like. Personally his voice, clothing choices and walk sound more mature. I’d say 35-60. But looks younger.

I think the odds of it being a sexual crime are 50/50. Lately I feel if it was sexual in nature BG would have killed again soon after. So now I feel it was more of a hatred towards females or younger girls and a power thing(conference) Probably had a bad relationship with mom growing up, or sisters, or some traumatic childhood romantic rejection. He’s probably sensitive to young girls making fun of him, probably has a weird looking face. Probably a loner, Passionate and a romantic- violent when rejected. He can’t deal with how females have treated him and feels he deserves better. I think he grew up in the area, knows the trails, bridge, creek (fishing with fam), his parents likely have passed or are old and religious(not online)(not In area) I assume he visited the area to live out the fantasy of trapping someone on the bridge- OR the girls saw him and we’re audibly creeped out- and it angered him- saw it as an ideal moment to strike.

He probably doesn’t like to stand out, views himself as a good person, but felt justified in what he did. I assume he’s smart and only acted out his fantasy because he was about to take off for a long trip, job, or enroll into army? (If younger) this was the only day he could act on his fantasy- so he went to the perfect kill spot he had imagined before. Then took off to wherever he was off too, and probably hasn’t returned since. I think he likely kept one memento but got rid of everything else, especially clothes.

I don’t think there was a lot of blood present at crime scene- because it would make escaping more complicated for him. I’d say it was likely strangulation or purposefully drowning them in creek.

these are just my amateur opinion^ Sorry it’s so long lol

yes I too feel he may have a repetitive fantasy of trapping someone on the bridge!
mOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

New here.

couple thoughts that may have been discussed already-

From observing other cases, I believe the police know every single thing on the girls phone- even if apps or messages were deleted. Which lowers the odds of the catfish theory in my opinion.

I think the conference where Carter dramatically calls out BG, he did so purposefully so the room can be scanned by a professional to observe everyone’s behavior- thats why they had everyone sign in, I think his words were very purposeful and said to incite a response.

I don’t think they know much about what the man looks like. Personally his voice, clothing choices and walk sound more mature. I’d say 35-60. But looks younger.

I think the odds of it being a sexual crime are 50/50. Lately I feel if it was sexual in nature BG would have killed again soon after. So now I feel it was more of a hatred towards females or younger girls and a power thing(conference) Probably had a bad relationship with mom growing up, or sisters, or some traumatic childhood romantic rejection. He’s probably sensitive to young girls making fun of him, probably has a weird looking face. Probably a loner, Passionate and a romantic- violent when rejected. He can’t deal with how females have treated him and feels he deserves better. I think he grew up in the area, knows the trails, bridge, creek (fishing with fam), his parents likely have passed or are old and religious(not online)(not In area) I assume he visited the area to live out the fantasy of trapping someone on the bridge- OR the girls saw him and we’re audibly creeped out- and it angered him- saw it as an ideal moment to strike.

He probably doesn’t like to stand out, views himself as a good person, but felt justified in what he did. I assume he’s smart and only acted out his fantasy because he was about to take off for a long trip, job, or enroll into army? (If younger) this was the only day he could act on his fantasy- so he went to the perfect kill spot he had imagined before. Then took off to wherever he was off too, and probably hasn’t returned since. I think he likely kept one memento but got rid of everything else, especially clothes.

I don’t think there was a lot of blood present at crime scene- because it would make escaping more complicated for him. I’d say it was likely strangulation or purposefully drowning them in creek.

these are just my amateur opinion^ Sorry it’s so long lol

Welcome Boredetective!

Fresh thoughts are welcomed! Be assured that most everything by now has been discussed a thousand times but most everyone here is more than happy to discuss anything a thousand more times waiting for the day they finally arrest this killer.

 

[Ozoner]

still feels like they were waiting around for someone.

then he shows up

he's like ok guys, down the hill...like its all a plan.


mOO

How much time did you spend in rural areas when you were young? Just curious.
-
I see nothing about the girls' activities that would suggest that they were waiting around for someone. Nothing.

 

[Stew223]

let me elaborate
he could have pointed a gun at them. maybe he shows it and says ok guys..down the hill.
or
he shows up and and visually acknowledges them and then just says ok guys ( or whatever) down the hill.

I feel like if he immediately pointed a gun we would hear some sort of exclamation from the girls right away , as this is a shocking event.

so which is it? we don't know anything about COD or what ensued. mOO

Sometimes when I hear the audio between the word guys and down the hill I can hear a short intake of breath amongst the white noise. If a gun were pulled at that point other than a scream a short sharp intake of breath is a reaction I’d expect.

 

[Cryptic]

Ive wondered many times why it was “down the hill“ instead of go “down there”, possibly while pointing where he meant. I feel like “hill” is meaningful in some way.

Maybe do an experiment:

Show a preferably male blue collar trade, farmer, rancher type friend or relative a googled picture of a railroad embankment. Then ask him or how they would tell somebody to go from point 'a' to point 'b'.

Do the same for a preferably white collar male friend or relative. The income of the people does not matter. Blue collar trades can pay more than a certain number of white collar positions. Rather,what matters is their employment back ground.

Note what terms the individuals use. Do some individuals grasp for words? Do others know specialized words (either formal or slang)?

Here are the results of my experiment. I need to ask more males, but the girls were available:

- Me (white collar now, blue collar in the past): Would use 'embankment' today. Would have used either 'embankment' or 'grade' in the past.

- Older daughter: (White Collar): Would use 'down there'. Would not use 'hill' as she views hills as natural. Never heard other terms.

- Wife (white collar /blue collar origins): Would use 'hill' for a high embankment. 'Down there' for a low one. May of heard specialized terms from male blue collar relatives, but can't remember them.

 

[minazoe]

"hill" because he knows he is talking to children

 

[Cryptic]

Which indicates to me this wasn't his first rodeo.

I think that is possible (knew from experience that young females would not respond to specialized terms, so he translated to 'hill' in advance). Minazoe also supports this possibility.

Or, it could be his first serious crime. BG is from a white collar back ground (white collar does not always mean high income). He then used 'hill' because he has never used or heard specialized formal or slang words.

I think translations would be less likely. Thus I lean towards the 'white collar / does not know specialized terms' possibility.

 

[Ozoner]

Maybe do an experiment:

Show a preferably male blue collar trade, farmer, rancher type friend or relative a googled picture of a railroad embankment. Then ask him or how they would tell somebody to go from point 'a' to point 'b'.

Do the same for a preferably white collar male friend or relative. The income of the people does not matter. Blue collar trades can pay more than a certain number of white collar positions. Rather,what matters is their employment back ground.

Note what terms the individuals use. Do some individuals grasp for words? Do others know specialized words (either formal or slang)?

Here are the results of my experiment. I need to ask more males, but the girls were available:

- Me (white collar now, blue collar in the past): Would use 'embankment' today. Would have used either 'embankment' or 'grade' in the past.

- Older daughter: (White Collar): Would use 'down there'. Would not use 'hill' as she views hills as natural. Never heard other terms.

- Wife (white collar /blue collar origins): Would use 'hill' for a high embankment. 'Down there' for a low one. May of heard other terms from blue collar male relatives, but can't remember them.

I don't know anyone who would use the word embankment unless he had Asperger's or was writing a technical article for a civil engineering journal.

 

[Cryptic]

I don't anyone who would use the word embankment unless he had Asperger's or was writing a technical article for a civil engineering journal.

Ok, how about specialized slang terms like 'grade'?

'Grade' was pretty common in my area amongst men who worked construction or related trades. The use of 'embankment' was probably less common, but everyone knew the term.

 

[JnRyan]

Am I the only one who thinks this is weighing heavily on him? I don't sympathize with him, I don't understand what happened, but something doesn't fit. The best way to explain is, this case is a picture-in-a-picture, and I don't see one of them.

I hope if he decides to take his life, he sends DC a letter first where he explains it all.

I believe he did in the beginning when he saw the massive effort. But I believe it weighed on him from the standpoint he feared LE knocking his door down and not for the girls. 1st Sgt Holeman stated, in his opinion, that the killer didn't know he had been recorded. So he had to believe when his photo and audio is shown he's shocked. It's all about him and not the girls or their families. Not likely any remorse for the girls, only for himself.

Later on, probably when the first sketch comes out, he probably believes he got away with it and then enjoys press conferences like he has his own reality show. Again, all about him and not anyone else.

Things always look better in the day time, though. He might have his moments at night. Fear of LE coming after him. If anything weighs on this guy I believe it is fear, not remorse. In reality, I believe he is a little man, a coward.

 

[Ozoner]

Ok, how about specialized slang terms like 'grade'? 'Grade' was pretty common in my area amongst men who worked construction or related trades.

Grade is more common; so is slope for that matter, but I still think that 99 people out of 100 would say hill, so at best you might be able to say that BG isn't a bridge builder or civil engineer.

 

[Cryptic]

Grade is more common; so is slope for that matter, but I still think that 99 people out of 100 would say hill, so at best you might be able to say that BG isn't a bridge builder or civil engineer.

I thought of 'slope' as well, but 'grade' was more common with me.

You could well be right about 'embankment' being rare. A majority of the men I worked with probably knew it, but did not really use it.

I think, however, it is too pre-mature to say 99% would resort to 'hill'. We have a small sample, but two of us (you and I) know both the formal word and slang terms. Of course, knowing does not mean using.

In short, we might be able to add BG not having a construction trade, rail employee etc. to this list. I just wonder what most non road crew construction workers would use?

I would not say 'hill'. Rather, I would say 'embankment' or 'grade' and point if needed. I might then add "down there".

What about you?

 

[Cryptic]

I agree that unless a group of English professors were out for a stroll that most Americans would call either side of the right of way a “hill” even though it’s truly an embankment.

Or, the strolling men worked construction.

The slang term 'grade' was common amongst men in my area who worked construction either full time, or from time to time. Likewise, they would have known the term 'embankment'. Some would use it, others not.

 

[Ozoner]

I thought of 'slope' as well, but 'grade' was more common with me.

You could well be right about 'embankment' being rare. A majority of the men I worked with probably knew it, but did not really use it.

I think, however, it is too pre-mature to say 99% would resort to 'hill'. We have a small sample, but two of us (you and I) know both the formal word and slang terms. Of course, knowing does not mean using.

In short, we might be able to add BG not having a construction trade, rail employee etc. to this list. I just wonder what most non road crew construction workers would use?

I would not say 'hill'. Rather, I would say 'embankment' or 'grade' and point if needed. I might then add "down there".

What about you?

I would probably (80%) say hill or possibly (20%) slope, but I would only use slope if it was very steep. I would not say embankment or grade (maybe in writing, but not in speech).

 

[MaJor Tom]

This might be controversial but I feel that without a big push this case will become cold. LE need to release a bit more information, get it out there in the press and keep the interest going. They said amateur sleuthing doesn't help, too many tips, too much speculation. Then say they need help from the public in identifying this killer. They can't have it both ways.

I have no doubt BG has killed before and possibly since. He is so confident as he approached the girls he even sounded like their compliance was simply a formality. And so it proved. I believe him to be a sadistic killer, a SA may not even be his kick, control and cruelty is his thing. If not adults or children then pets or other animals.

There needs to be some information on the cause of death. Strangulation, stabbing? These details matter and I don't think it would weaken LE's case when it comes to court. They don't have to tell us if he used a special knot, if it was rope or wire or if it was a certain kind of knife but these details matter in identifying this guy.

It's how he gets off, and that will spill over into his public life. There was a rapist who put a pillow case over his victims heads when he carried out his attacks. That information helped his partner, who suspected his guilt, identify him - he did it to her every time they, er ' had union'. Made love, made out doesn't cover this in my book, this was more about control and subjugation.

Robert Ives says the crime scent was odd, there were 'unusual facts', there were 2 or 3 signatures. Were they posed or left where they fell, dressed or undressed, was there semen or not. Ugh I hate to think like this but if you want to identify someone there has to be enough information to do so. I simply don't accept that some additional information may weaken their case as and when BG comes to court. No point in having a case thats a slam dunk if you don't have a suspect in the dock. MOO

 

[minazoe]

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