Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[minazoe]

Did you do what you were told as a teenager? If you did, you must have been one weird teenager. Most teens go out of their way to do things that they're not allowed to do. I've never met a teenager who cared what his or parents thought one way or the other. Teenagers do as they please.

no , no that's not it.. of course we went to places, people etc we were told not to.

but it's just an odd choice, nothing was green, no kids hanging out, no other friends from school for a scene or a groovy hang. it doesn't connect in my mind..even if it was just for SM photos...

like for instance my mom might say a certain beach is too far and off limits, but I know a bunch of my friends will be hanging out there and I go anyway because I want to hang out with them.

maybe one was trying to support the other with healthy choices like walking etc..

but I don't buy it. I want to know why they wanted so badly to kill a few hours at the high bridge. The initial contact looks and sounds transactional.

the girls set up like bowling pins at the end of that bridge, which is a perfect meeting place for entrapment.

we can say it just a place they wanted to go...but if we are truly using the Occam Razor we can see that it's more likely that what it looks like/ sounds like is what it is.

perhaps she was supposed to snap chat when they were in place .snap chat a pic of themselves at the meeting place . Of course he knew they were there already, he was on his way towards them ..

to me this looks like a set up and I thinks LE knows. mOO

 

[minazoe]

double post deleted by me.

 

[JnRyan]

I don't know if this has been posted, but Episode 8 of "Down the Hill" is up.

https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

I just heard it and I was less than impressed like the last episode. It just appears to me they are running out of material and there is a lot of chatter and then filling time with the April 2019 press conference. But that is just me.

 

[Ozoner]

I tend to believe this was a crime of opportunity. But that said, LE has not convinced me that they have evidence that catfishing didn't happen.

I'm not sure that LE could prove that catfishing didn't happen; it's impossible to prove a negative statement. They haven't found any evidence that catfishing did happen. If it had, I think they would have found the evidence very quickly. There can be little doubt that digging into the girls' digital footprints would have been high on the list of investigative strategies.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm not sure that LE could prove that catfishing didn't happen; it's impossible to prove a negative statement. They haven't found any evidence that catfishing did happen. If it had, I think they would have found the evidence very quickly. There can be little doubt that digging into the girls' digital footprints would have been high on the list of investigative strategies.

In other words, is LE not sure one way or another? I haven't heard them be very definite in their statements the one or two times the subject has come up. But then, they may have evidence catfishing did occur - they're just holding back. This investigation, like a lot of others, has information in the hands of LE but they aren't releasing it. I have my own thoughts on how this occurred, but I'm not ruling out it out. You sound like you ruled it out 100%, but I'm just not there yet.

 

[MaJor Tom]

The fact the girls are even there makes it even more weird because seriously she is not allowed on that bridge yet she makes a plan to go there and hang out there. Does it make any sense to you?

why would she want to go there if she is not allowed on that bridge..not allowed there...so what is pull of this place?

I feel the dots don't connect. they don't. pieces are missing . mOO

This was posted by Cutiekitty 16 Nov 19:

Just relistened to the infamous Indy podcast (infamousindy.com - iPad is acting up and can’t copy links for some reason), which was in January 2019 I believe. There were a few things that have been brought up before that I found interesting in light of some recent discussions.

KG acknowledged affirmatively when asked if they lived on the trails and grew up on them. KG also mentions the house at the south end of the bridge and the private drive and says you are not supposed to go down it, but people do it anyway.

Snip

KG says there were groups of kids at the trails throughout the day. When KG got to the trails to search around 4ish On the 13th there were 4-5 girls/boys at the trails.​

I believe one of the girls school friends (Cheyenne) was on the trail with 2 friends and her sister. They met BG and he looked at her oddly, the others didn't notice but she did and later gave a description to LE.

It was a warm day, Libby knew the place and probably felt safe there. School was out and her friends were hanging out in the woods. Trouble is they weren't the only ones, BG was waiting for his opportunity

I can give a citation later but need to find it, unless someone else has covered this ground - there is so much stuff out there.

 

[minazoe]

This was posted by Cutiekitty 16 Nov 19:

Just relistened to the infamous Indy podcast (infamousindy.com - iPad is acting up and can’t copy links for some reason), which was in January 2019 I believe. There were a few things that have been brought up before that I found interesting in light of some recent discussions.

KG acknowledged affirmatively when asked if they lived on the trails and grew up on them. KG also mentions the house at the south end of the bridge and the private drive and says you are not supposed to go down it, but people do it anyway.

Snip

KG says there were groups of kids at the trails throughout the day. When KG got to the trails to search around 4ish On the 13th there were 4-5 girls/boys at the trails.​

I believe one of the girls school friends (Cheyenne) was on the trail with 2 friends and her sister. They met BG and he looked at her oddly, the others didn't notice but she did and later gave a description to LE.

It was a warm day, Libby knew the place and probably felt safe there. School was out and her friends were hanging out in the woods. Trouble is they weren't the only ones, BG was waiting for his opportunity

I can give a citation later but need to find it, unless someone else has covered this ground - there is so much stuff out there.

thank you so much for this. so this is where other kids were going to be, this is a normal activity...thats so good to know, it helps me to understand why they were there! now..could they have in fact invited someone to meet them there?

maybe BG was trolling the park that day and waiting for his chance as he knows this is a hang for teens.

wonder if he was ever on line kind of inserting himself into a group of teens or a chat...kind of hiding out.

so tragic. mOO

 

[Falling Down]

I think both of these are possible.

I found out last night that my daughter did not know the formal word "embankment" and had also never heard the construction slang word "grade" (embankments are leveled by 'graders'). This could support BG being aware of the need to translate the term to "hill".

At the same time, I think that most people, especially when under stress, automatically use vocabulary that they personally use daily. A translation would be added only if needed.

For example:

BG: "Go down the embankment" or "Go down off the grade" (victims look confused)
BG then translates: "Go down the hill"

Which indicates to me this wasn't his first rodeo.

JMO

 

[Peppery]

Moo:

they went there because they wanted to. Because it was off limits, a little scary, looks cool, maybe had some local folklore about it. If my 13 year old went somewhere like that, with her bff I knew well, I’d be mad and probably ground her, but it’s not like they did something truly bad. I would have been much more worried one of them would fall or get in trouble for trespassing than end up murdered.

BG was there looking for a target. May have been his first day, first location, maybe he’d been looking for the opportunity that piqued his interest for days, weeks, or longer in many different areas. Something made that day, those girls, in that location appealing to him, so he struck. If it hadn’t been that opportunity, it would have been another. Reminds me of the butterfly effect. Who knows how many times he wanted to do this act but something just wasn’t right (to him). Things lined up that day so he did it.

 

[Peppery]

I think both of these are possible.

I found out last night that my daughter did not know the formal word "embankment" and had also never heard the construction slang word "grade" (embankments are leveled by 'graders'). This could support BG being aware of the need to translate the term to "hill".

At the same time, I think that most people, especially when under stress, automatically use vocabulary that they personally use daily. A translation would be added only if needed.

For example:

BG: "Go down the embankment" or "Go down off the grade" (victims look confused)
BG then translates: "Go down the hill"

Ive wondered many times why it was “down the hill“ instead of go “down there”, possibly while pointing where he meant. I feel like “hill” is meaningful in some way.

 

[Ursamajr]

Ive wondered many times why it was “down the hill“ instead of go “down there”, possibly while pointing where he meant. I feel like “hill” is meaningful in some way.

Maybe something like "where are we going?" "We are going down the hill". Might have been off in the distance and/or they might have still be on the bridge - possibly in the same clip we have the still shot of BG from. Their voices might have overlapped during the start of his sentence.

 

[arielilane]

Someone knows BG. Works with him, lives with him, who knows what the connection may be. But, there is someone out there that knows him.. recognized him from the video, recognized the voice. However, it's possible the person hasn't seen the video..so they can't report him. Or they have seen the video and are in fear of reporting him. Speak up!

 

[Falling Down]

Moo:

they went there because they wanted to. Because it was off limits, a little scary, looks cool, maybe had some local folklore about it. If my 13 year old went somewhere like that, with her bff I knew well, I’d be mad and probably ground her, but it’s not like they did something truly bad. I would have been much more worried one of them would fall or get in trouble for trespassing than end up murdered.

BG was there looking for a target. May have been his first day, first location, maybe he’d been looking for the opportunity that piqued his interest for days, weeks, or longer in many different areas. Something made that day, those girls, in that location appealing to him, so he struck. If it hadn’t been that opportunity, it would have been another. Reminds me of the butterfly effect. Who knows how many times he wanted to do this act but something just wasn’t right (to him). Things lined up that day so he did it.

I call them "variables".

Good post.

 

[Charlot123]

White line= yes, I see it. But I believe, BG is wearing no chunky rubber boots. I may be wrong of course!

Yesterday I searched for the shoes in the section "sports, vintage, GDR" - so long without success as usual. (No, I don't think, BG is a compatriot!)

Interesting that you are also thinking along this GDR line.

I know that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, in a couple of years, the army set up a network of stores to sell unused Soviet uniforms (did they expect the Union to form again, lol? Why in two years?). So I don't remember what year it was, 1995 or 1996, I was visiting Moscow and ran into such a store, and bought "souvenirs". The boots were long gone, but I bought two sailors' shirts, one army winter hat, a belt, a camo jacket.
I wonder if a similar system of stores existed in former GDR/DDR, or else, how did they sell army surplus?

Anyhow, I think you should google "army surplus store" or even "GDR army surplus boots" on ebay

This store sells army surplus by country

https://www.epicmilitaria.com/army-navy-surplus/surplus-by-country/german-military.html

Some others:

Selling quality vintage, handmade, and military goods! by BroadAxeVintage

Vintage, unique and collectible military items by ArthurBernard

East German Surplus | East German Army Surplus | East German Militaria - Hessen Antique

This is US one to compare

Federal Army & Navy Surplus Inc - Google Search

 

[Charlot123]

My opinion - BG is a person that held/holds a position of authority. Whether that is a respected teacher in the community, a pastor, local government or... law enforcement, I am not sure. I believe that there is a good chance that BG had/has high public approval standings. If he were accused without 100% certainty and with strong evidence to back that accusation, there would be a a chance of strong public reaction defending him. That reaction might cause a delay in taking him into custody or holding him without bail which then would lead to fleeing the area. I believe he would be protected.

Obviously, I don't have any way to know. I'm just looking for reasons why so much info has been held back from the community. Surely the parents know the manner of death - I would think. I would also think its past the time where they would want that info held because of sensitivity to the family. Releasing *any* additional info would help the case yet I still understand info considered to be signature to the murderer would and should be held.

I think the biggest reason I think that BG is possibly LE or someone who would have very close contact with LE were Doug Carters words and inflection about knowing BG's voice. Maybe that is reading too much into it but I'm not convinced of that.

Am I the only one who thinks this is weighing heavily on him? I don't sympathize with him, I don't understand what happened, but something doesn't fit. The best way to explain is, this case is a picture-in-a-picture, and I don't see one of them.

I hope if he decides to take his life, he sends DC a letter first where he explains it all.

 

[Charlot123]

View attachment 239343

Here you can see the white element on BG's shoes.

You know, it is so blurry, it could be these shoes from LL Bean with the lower part being rubberized.
Men's Small Batch L.L.Bean Boots, 6" Tumbled-Leather

 

[Deleted member 102539]

As I have speculated upthread, I suspect one of the girls was catfished, and thought she was going to meet a Bieber lookalike.

amateur opinion and speculation

Perhaps BG was catfished by the girls or they were catfished by him. I'm still thinking ....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

My opinion - BG is a person that held/holds a position of authority. Whether that is a respected teacher in the community, a pastor, local government or... law enforcement, I am not sure. I believe that there is a good chance that BG had/has high public approval standings. If he were accused without 100% certainty and with strong evidence to back that accusation, there would be a a chance of strong public reaction defending him. That reaction might cause a delay in taking him into custody or holding him without bail which then would lead to fleeing the area. I believe he would be protected.

^^ This maybe. MOO

 

[Ozoner]

Am I the only one who thinks this is weighing heavily on him? I don't sympathize with him, I don't understand what happened, but something doesn't fit. The best way to explain is, this case is a picture-in-a-picture, and I don't see one of them.

I hope if he decides to take his life, he sends DC a letter first where he explains it all.

You may well be the only person that thinks that this is weighing heavily on him.
-
I think he savors the memory and probably becomes sexually aroused every time he thinks about it.
-
He is exceedingly pleased with himself for having gotten away with it so far.

 

[Falcon500]

Ive wondered many times why it was “down the hill“ instead of go “down there”, possibly while pointing where he meant. I feel like “hill” is meaningful in some way.

I’m sure many realize that the trail was once an active railroad line. When they built the railroad in the 19th century it was important that the line be almost perfectly level. You can’t build a railroad through hills and valleys without a huge amount of manual labor.

At the point where the girls were accosted it’s at a section where the earth (as in dirt) had to be pushed up for miles to form a level right of way.

I agree that unless a group of English professors were out for a stroll that most Americans would call either side of the right of way a “hill” even though it’s truly an embankment.