Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

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rosesfromangels said:
I think there have been alot of high level forensic experts looking at this case. There are speculations that the Perp is already in jail, per the MSM article a few posts upthread. If there is any truth to that (and that is JUST a speculation by many), I can only conclude that there are some final forensic studies that have been conducted, and pending results. That's the best I can come up with ATM. The one guy in jail looks like a ringer for the sketch. Let's hope they have got their miscreant, and that justice will be swift.

One thing I haven't been able to sort out in my mind. We have heard that the girls fought back. If this is the case, it is likely he had wounds/scratches on his face. Someone say that face, those scratches/marks/bruises and didn't say a thing. They need to do the right thing and call in a tip anonymously and free their conscience. (844) 459-5786 or email abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

Amateur opinion and speculation
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LE didn't catch up with him in time to check for scratches, bite marks or bruises. But if this killer didn't use a gun, a blunt object or otherwise strangle at least one of the victims, that leaves a knife. And while I wonder if he did use a knife, its almost impossible to avoid getting blood on yourself. I used to have nosebleeds off and on and even had my nose broken. That broken nose in elementary school left blood all over my clothes in no time. Also from deer hunting, I know that I've ended up with blood on me. If any of these witnesses really got close to this killer afterwards I would think there would be blood on his clothing. That makes me think the witnesses - IF they did see this killer and not someone else - either saw him before the murders or from a distance.
 
CCJD said:
RSBM

For the first six months afterward, there were more than 25 police agencies — mostly from Indiana — "that were assisting in this case in one way or another," Riley said.

Three years later, there are two state troopers, two Carroll County sheriff's deputies, a Delphi city police officer, and someone from the prosecutor's office working regularly on the case. And the FBI "still assists us," Riley said.
Delphi murders: After 3 years with no arrests, police say case isn't cold
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Maybe fresh eyes not from the same state. Might provide something that slipped through a crack. It has solved other cases . Just thinking all available resources should be tried
 
JnRyan said:
LE didn't catch up with him in time to check for scratches, bite marks or bruises. But if this killer didn't use a gun, a blunt object or otherwise strangle at least one of the victims, that leaves a knife. And while I wonder if he did use a knife, its almost impossible to avoid getting blood on yourself. I used to have nosebleeds off and on and even had my nose broken. That broken nose in elementary school left blood all over my clothes in no time. Also from deer hunting, I know that I've ended up with blood on me. If any of these witnesses really got close to this killer afterwards I would think there would be blood on his clothing. That makes me think the witnesses - IF they did see this killer and not someone else - either saw him before the murders or from a distance.
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I completely understand what you are saying. I am wondering if the piece of the puzzle is there just not standing out. Sometimes I miss things right in front of me. It is very possible that new eyes and different ways of solving unsolved crimes
 
Carrie Ann said:
I completely understand what you are saying. I am wondering if the piece of the puzzle is there just not standing out. Sometimes I miss things right in front of me. It is very possible that new eyes and different ways of solving unsolved crimes
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I believe they did bring in the GBI (GA Bureau of Investigation) at one point. I believe this was before the April 2019 'New Direction', but that may have been sometime in 2018. I wonder about new ISP detectives, but there are pros and cons on that aspect. It will take them a good deal of time to get up to speed. In addition to the crime scene photos, notes and autopsy they would have almost 50K in tips to go through. However, that may be what it takes. The learning process of new detectives may raise questions that haven't come up before. I still wonder if the killer is in that massive amount of tips.
 
JnRyan said:
LE didn't catch up with him in time to check for scratches, bite marks or bruises. But if this killer didn't use a gun, a blunt object or otherwise strangle at least one of the victims, that leaves a knife. And while I wonder if he did use a knife, its almost impossible to avoid getting blood on yourself. I used to have nosebleeds off and on and even had my nose broken. That broken nose in elementary school left blood all over my clothes in no time. Also from deer hunting, I know that I've ended up with blood on me. If any of these witnesses really got close to this killer afterwards I would think there would be blood on his clothing. That makes me think the witnesses - IF they did see this killer and not someone else - either saw him before the murders or from a distance.
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What about garrote or any other strangling device? If we assume everything was the way we were told, and the girls were killed where found.
 

“Stuff from nightmares”.

But there was something sticking out of BG’s mouth is some photos. I never thought of what it was (as it looked like some sort of a nebulizer tube). But maybe if he is wearing a mask, he needs a tube for breathing?
 
Charlot123 said:
What about garrote or any other strangling device? If we assume everything was the way we were told, and the girls were killed where found.
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One of the methods I mention. But if he strangled one of them the other was likely already dead or incapacitated. That leaves me to believe it was a blitz attack on the first victim - blunt force or gun - before attacking the second.
 
Carrie Ann said:
People are obviously worried about coming forward. You can see that just by the attention from other sources. I believe that this is a tangled web of secrets. If the man prep is already in locked up. He still needs to face the Punishment for taking 2 young Girls life. In today's Technology I find it difficult to accept that there not more information. The people who live there are living with the fact the Killer(s) might be in plain sight. The difter theory is just doesn't add up to me. It's possible tho .
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I really doubt he is locked up.

The murderer is about power, they say. To the same degree, he is about control, over own life and the lives of others. I don’t know who he is, but the man is a control freak. And arrest would imply ultimate loss of control. I don’t think he’ll allow it to happen.
 
Charlot123 said:
“Stuff from nightmares”.

But there was something sticking out of BG’s mouth is some photos. I never thought of what it was (as it looked like some sort of a nebulizer tube). But maybe if he is wearing a mask, he needs a tube for breathing?
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There is? Honestly, I can make very little out of the facial features.
Your description reminds me of that creepy scene from “Blue Velvet” where The villain is whiffing nitrous oxides to enhance the sexual violation of the object of his obsession. Shiver.

amateur opinion and speculation
 
JnRyan said:
One of the methods I mention. But if he strangled one of them the other was likely already dead or incapacitated. That leaves me to believe it was a blitz attack on the first victim - blunt force or gun - before attacking the second.
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I think if Libby was the first one killed, that left Abby shell-shocked, and at his mercy. So I think, the first one. Sorry for discussing these details. He probably planned it that way.
 
soylattesandsleuthing said:
I listened to this today and I also thought it was a good discussion. I took a break from this case for a while, and just found out about Tobe Leazenby saying they have DNA and a partial fingerprint from the crime scene.

All of the points they hit on in the episode are things that have made me pause and say “hmmm” as well. The discussion of the crime scene being “physically strange” and “at least 2-3 signatures” are at the top of “Things I Keep Mulling Over” list. I believe that crime scene must have been particularly horrifying, but the “strange” descriptor is what is throwing me off the most.
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Same! And it's hard to forget that there was very little time during which the crime was committed, as outlined by the timeline. So whatever was done was done quickly.
 
If BG has more money than the yearly budget of the Carroll County prosecutor, how would the prosecution ever prevail when going up against BG's top shelf defense attorneys?
(Serious question)
I believe LE knows who BG is but realize they are up against "Goliath."
If they know there is reasonable doubt they will not arrest.
MOO
 
What kind of power is enough power? Really!

michael jackson, epstein and weinstien whoever steins where arrested. Like come on a small town like that and police are talking bout power, all their doing is promoting how this man is walking free and theyre too weak.
 
Nope nope nope

Do not for one second believe LE has any clue who this monster is.

IMO this was an opportunistic sexually motivated attack by a stranger. Which makes it all the harder to solve. I believe they have DNA but no match. I believe this case will be solved when someone related to BG gets their DNA in the system. All moo
 
Andreee said:
Same! And it's hard to forget that there was very little time during which the crime was committed, as outlined by the timeline. So whatever was done was done quickly.
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No official timeline has been released, but people can kind of deduce what the general time frame is, from when he spotted the girls (my theory) through to when he left the woods. One major consideration are the distances involved, this killer went through an awful lot of trouble to carry out the murders. Yet it still fits within a tight time frame.

MOO on this:

1:37-1:40 PM, he spots them being dropped off or sees them shortly thereafter. A witness states they saw BG on the main trail, just west of where the girls were dropped off. I'm picturing BG loitering/lurking right in that area. This is roughly where the Gerard Trail and the main trail meet. I think he was some short distance west of that trail head for the simple fact that he would have been obscured from both C.R. 300 and the tiny parking area which was off of C.R. 300, where the girls were dropped off.

1:40 PM and for some time thereafter, he loiters, watching the girls disappear down the trail, around the bend in the trail which leads to a straight section between the bend and the northwest (NW) approach to the bridge. He figures they're alone, they're juveniles so they don't have a vehicle with them, and he thinks about and fantasizes about any number of other things which will enable him to carry out his fantasy, and what the aftermath might be like.

He combines this thought process with his preparation for the murders, which could include any number of things. We don't know if he changed his appearance some at this point, loaded up on whatever ended up under the outer jacket, etc., but I imagine the guy had to do some prep right before he set the wheels in motion to carry out his fantasy.

At some point or perhaps through this entire time up to the point where he steps on the bridge, he's monitoring what the girls are up to.

2:07 PM Libby uploads the image of Abby to SnapChat. Now what time it was taken is anyone's guess, but my hunch is that by 2:15 or so they were most of the way across the bridge. I'm of the opinion the abduction happened around 2:20 PM.

2:40 they were probably deceased or dying, as he was preparing to leave the area.

So in roughly one hour, much of it taken up by some preparation on his part, waiting for the girls to cross the bridge, walking the trail, walking the bridge, etc., he stalked and then murdered the girls, and prepared for his exit from the CS and the woods, maybe doing who-knows-what at the CS.

Very tight time frame, in my opinion. From abduction to time-of-death could be 20 minutes or thereabouts.

JMO
 
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