Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[pearl]

Pardon my lack of knowledge in the area of smartphones. I do well with computers. Lucky for me my husband is retired IT. I have a smartphone and just use the basics like calling, camera, and internet. This phone has more capabilities than I will ever use. I am thinking of the factory reset Libby did to her phone shortly before the murders. Is there any way one person can remotely control or interfere with the cell phone of another person?

 

[Charlot123]

Men meet for sex outside all.the.time. I don't think income has anything to do with it at all.....they'll still do it. Throw in an expectedly warm day when they might not have had a chance to do that in a while? Definitely a plausible theory in my opinion. Always has been.

It probably did not happen on that very day. When BG appeared on the warpath, the bridge, he was wearing a lot of scary things on him. Why wear this body armor if you plan to have a nice tryst en plain air?. (Unless he lives very close, so he could run home and grab it?).

No, I think it was some prior knowledge of the relationship with someone younger that made Libby the target.

ETA: if the version about girls being privy to some personal information is true, then I can’t understand LE’s position at all.

Somewhere, in Delphi or close, there lives this man of respect, who is an ugly vampire. Molesting younger people, killing teenage girls. The community is very unsafe from him! Very. And what if he moved? Even worse.

 

[ReadySet]

Thank you for your work compiling all this!

As promised, I've compiled a list of direct quotes made by law enforcement.
(All quotes have been pulled from articles posted in the case media thread.)

Indiana State Police - Peru District 16 - Press Release
Entered by Indiana State Police Peru District 16 – Peru, IN
Sunday, February 19th, 2017 - 1:14 pm EST

At approximately 12:15 pm on February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail J. Williams, 13, and Liberty Rose Lynn German, 14, both from Delphi, IN were found in a wooded area near the Delphi Historic Trail, east of Delphi, IN, in Carroll County.

Since Wednesday February 15th, law enforcement officers have distributed a photo of a person observed on the Delphi Historic Trail. The photo appears to depict a white male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie. During the course of the investigation, preliminary evidence has led investigators to believe the person, in the distributed photo, is suspected of having participated in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

Fox59 News Timeline

February 15, 2017

10:00 am
Riley advises parents to keep a close eye on their children and monitor their whereabouts.

3:00 pm
Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department say they don’t believe there’s any immediate danger to the community.

July 17, 2017

Indiana State Police released the first sketch of the murder suspect.

February 21, 2017

In a news interview, Sgt. Tony Slocum is explicitly asked if the man is wearing a hat or we are seeing the man’s hair. He replied that it appears to him to be a hoodie.

UPDATE: Police say photo of suspect in Delphi homicides came from teen’s phone; audio released of man’s voice

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby as reported by Fox59
February 23, 2017

The investigation started first on the local level. Police have talked to “a number of individuals” so far as they search for a suspect.

“We have gone through a number of individuals at this point. This is basically a process of elimination in this situation. In relation to the investigation, we start locally and then expand out.”

He said there were “several pieces to this huge puzzle” and said investigators have asked for DNA evidence to be “fast-tracked”.

“Every day we evaluate what we have and what we feel like would be beneficial for folks to know. Obviously, when this is all said and done, we’re going to end up in a court of law with this situation. For us to reveal basically everything we have—and a lot of folks understand this—it would be detrimental to reveal a lot of information.”

February 25, 2017

Nerissa Knight from Crime Watch Daily reports that Indiana State Police Sgt. Slocum said, “Investigators believe the suspect was also wearing a brown fanny pack around his waist”.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1493647450660042

February 28, 2017

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby clears up misconceptions and says he has never confirmed DNA evidence was recovered in this case and said the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office is still taking the lead in this investigation.

Carroll Co. Sheriff clears up misconceptions on Delphi double homicide - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic

March 8, 2017

Indiana State Police Sgt. John Perrine says police are testing evidence found at the scene hoping it contains the suspect’s DNA.

https://www.wthr.com/article/please-we-need-your-help-libby-germans-grandfather-speaks

March 13, 2017

Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter tells Fox59: “To say we’ve identified a single individual would not be accurate, but we have identified several people of interest.”

Police continue investigation of several ‘people of interest’ a month into Delphi murder investigation

August 14, 2017

State police say more audio from Libby German’s phone was played for victims’ families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about “stuff girls talk about”, but they also mention the man.

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

Detective Holeman Interview:

There’s, I think, alleged a lot of evidence, but really we have very little evidence in this case. So, we’re working with what we have. We don’t have a lot, but we have more than—uhh—more than enough to make a case, but we’re just not getting that break yet. We’re still getting closer every day. We’re eliminating. We’re getting a lot on people that didn’t do it and we eliminate those daily.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

February 9, 2018

Police continue to look for a white male between 5’6” and 5’10”, weighting 180 to 200 pounds with reddish brown hair.

Delphi double homicides: 'Horrible to live like this,' a year after Abby and Libby were killed

February 10, 2018

Detective Holeman:

The question is: Do we have DNA? Yea, we have DNA. We’re just still working on determining what kind of DNA. Is it the victims? Is it the known family members or is it our suspect?

He said detectives test and compare the DNA almost daily, hoping it leads them to the killer.

We’re still working on that. We can’t say, ‘ Do we have the suspect’s DNA or don’t we?’ We have plenty of DNA, and we have plenty of testing to do, and it takes a lot of time.

Police open up about evidence 6 months after Delphi double homicide

February 14, 2018 – PRESS CONFERENCE

Reporter: Can you tell us more about this suspect? Do you believe he was a transient, is he in the state, is he anywhere in this country?

Supt. Carter: Billion dollar question. I don’t know.


SKETCH ONE Q&A – JULY 18, 2017

Q: How did you have an artist develop this sketch and is the sketch made with the help of an eyewitness or eyewitnesses, or was it made solely from the other picture we have seen?

A: Basically, I can’t really answer that question completely. I can tell you that it came from the investigators itself, from officers looking into things, to tips and leads that have come in, that people have come forward, we got information from there, and the composite was put together with that information.

Q: Why was the sketch released just today? Did you just get it finished, have other people seen this, including the family, now just the right time to release it?

A: This picture was released at this time because we felt it needed to come out, the information needs to be put forward, and we wanted to get it out there so people can look at it. And, it has, it has taken a while to get this thing put together and that’s why it’s taken so long to get the picture out.

Q: How confident are you that this is accurate?

A: We’re pretty confident. The information was received, with that information we’ve been able to put that together. Again, this thing wasn’t drawn overnight. We’ve been working with this picture, and with the suspects we, excuse me, I mean the witnesses that we have.

Q: Well, when you say witnesses, so multiple people that helped you out?

A: There were people that were able to help us out with this, yes.

Q: Who made the sketch?

A: It’s basically just been an accumulation of all the departments that have come together, and we have put this composite together.

Q: In the release, you talk about not to focus on the hat. That it may not be accurate. Can you talk a little about that?

A: As you can see, in the original picture below, it appears that he’s got a hat on and it’s got the flaps down and kind of down over the face. We want to make sure you focus on the picture. We want to make sure the face is what you are looking at and not worry about the hat, even though the hat is not quite the same as in the picture. We want the facial features… is what we want you to look at.

Q: In the release you mentioned some things exactly, such as hair color. Can you talk about this at this time?

A: Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was, the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh—the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious—the person was very obviously not blue eyes but they did mention that they were not clear on what color they were.

Q: So, there are people out there who are sure that they saw this guy walking around this day and they helped you out, is that it?

A: Pretty much that’s what it is, yes.

Q: Did those people come forward right away or did it take a little time for those people to come forward?

A: It’s been a while. It took a little bit. People are scared. They are afraid to be recognized by the subject, so it just takes a while for these things to happen.

Q: Just to be clear. Do you know this man’s identity and you are not releasing it or you don’t know this guy’s identity?

A: We want to know who he is.


TV INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTS

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield
February 16, 2020
Sgt. Kim Riley with Indiana State Police (via telephone)

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield Transcript

Casarez: I want to talk to you about the picture that has been circulating of a man that you want to talk with. This is the walking trail, the Delphi historic trail, and this is the Monon High Bridge, you believe. Do you believe that he lives in Delphi, which is about 60 miles northwest of Indianapolis?

Riley: We have—we’re not sure where the subject may be from or where he lives.

Casarez: The photograph that is the Snapchat photo that is tragically taken by one of the girls, this was taken at approximately what time? What is the timestamp on the photo?

Riley: Well, because it’s a Snapchat, there is no timestamp on it, so we’re not sure of the exact time. We know it was after the time that they were let off. But the exact time, we do not have that.

Casarez: Now, there’s a lot of things going on social media that nestled in the foliage there may be a human being that is lurking. Have your forensic investigators looked at that photograph to determine if there is someone amongst the branches behind her?

Riley: We have looked at it. We’ve blown it up. As a matter of fact, that was done right after we got the picture – we had access to the picture. And if you look at the far end of the tracks, it looks like there’s two people actually standing there. But if you blow the picture up, you’ll notice that there’s actually three poles there to keep cars from being – trying to drive across the bridge. So that’s the marks that you see at the end of the tracks. And the part where you see the trees, we’ve blown that up, and we have no been able to significantly say that’s a person. As a matter of fact, we’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s just a shadow, is all that is.

Casarez: Was the cause of death obvious?

Riley: I’m not—I’m not going to comment on that either, at this time. We don’t want to give any information out that somebody (inaudible) people will start reading information and they come in and start saying that this and that, that they were involved in the case because they know what happened. We don’t want that kind of information coming forward. So we’re going to keep that quiet.

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield
February 21, 2017
Sgt. Tony Slocum with Indiana State Police (via telephone)

Primetime Justice with Ashleigh Banfield Transcript 2/21/17

Casarez: Do you believe that these young girls at all could have been innocently communicating with someone who may have even not led to his real identity, to meet that person at this trail for a couple of hours?

Slocum: Well, anything’s possible, but the evidence we have thus far has not revealed that to be true. Unfortunately, these young ladies were just doing what teenage girls do. They were—they were enjoying a beautiful day, on a beautiful trail, in a beautiful part of Indiana and these crimes occurred.

Transcript of April 22, 2019 Press Conference
(transcribed by me)

We are seeking the public’s help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS/DCS welfare building in the city of Delphi, that was abandoned on the east side of the county road 300 North, next to the Hoosier Heartland Highway, between the hours of noon and five on February 14th 2017. If you were parked there, or know who was parked there, please contact the officers at the command post at the Delphi city building.

We’re releasing additional portions of the audio recording from that day. Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is not two different people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully.

We’re also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video, watch the—watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember: he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties.

During the course of this investigation, we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary… as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls.

We also believe this person is from Delphi, currently, or has previously lived here. Visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than his true age.

Directly to the killer who may be in this room:

We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears, to a different investigative strategy, but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And, one day, you will.

The question to you—what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children. Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least, they know because of how different you are since the murders.

We try so hard to understand how a person could do something like this to two children, and I recently watched a movie called The Shack. And there’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death, and about eternity.

To the murderer:
I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left, and I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not… IS NOT what they are experiencing today.

To the family—I hope that you all will give them some time because we’re going to be asking that there’s no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks. And, I hope you understand why. The family found out about this—about this information—this morning. I just want the family to know that when I take my last break on this earth, I’ll be thinking of them.

There’s going to be a tremendous amount of questions. I know that, I know that. Never in my career have I stood in front of something like this. Please, be patient with us. Please. Uh, we’re just beginning. We are just now beginning. And, I can tell you on behalf of the sheriff and the police chief, and so many other partners that have stood with us over this period of time, that we will NOT stop.

I just unveiled the person that we believe is responsible for the murder of these two little girls. So, I invite media to take a look at that now. We’re also going to show you a video, not previously released, that the superintendent spoke to, and also the audio that’s additional to what has been previously released. There’s only a slight change in it. So, give Sgt. Riley just a second as he gets that up and ready.

Audio: “Guys. (Inaudible/2 Second Pause) Down the hill.”

Stand by for the video, please. There is no sound to the video.

As the superintendent mentioned, he is on the railway bridge. You have to take, uh, different steps to get to it. This information, later this afternoon, will be on the state police website. For the community that’s here, we have 100 copies of the news release. If you put in that URL, you’ll be able to get to that site to play it. And we also have that same release for you in the media, and the rest of the state will get that release in about 15 minutes. So, we appreciate those of you that came here. This concludes our announcement. Thank you for time and patience.

April 23, 2019

ISP clarify points after news conference

- a car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5 pm on February 13, 2017; they are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time

- the location of the abandoned CPS building was 6931 West 300 North, Delphi IN (the building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant)

Indiana State Police releases clarification points on Delphi murder suspect

April 24, 2019


The sketch artist with ISP told the Indianapolis Star the new sketch was drawn February 17, 2017. The images was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported, and the sketch is a “ballpark estimation of what the person looks like”.

ISP said these points are important to keep in mind about the two sketches:

- they are not the same person
- the person depicted in the original sketch is not presently a person of interest
- the new sketch is representative of the face of the person captured in the video
- the person in the new sketch is described as having a youthful appearance but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s
- the person’s appearance could look different today if he has grown a mustache, beard, or let his hair grow longer or cut his hair shorter than depicted in the sketch

Newly released sketch of Delphi murder suspect was drawn in 2017, source says

May 16, 2019

Doug Carter: The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand. I believe that the individual, when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

 

[Charlot123]

They said the opposite IMO. Know what your kids are up to IIRC.

Meaning they well knew what the girls were planning to do, and that was shortly after the murders. In 2017. 3 years later, crime not solved. How?

 

[Charlot123]

We also believe this person is from Delphi, currently, or has previously lived here. Visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than his true age.

Sorry I had to snip all the beautiful work for one word.

This was from 2019 presser. “Currently between the range of 18 to 40.

So in 2017, he could have been 16...

Or at least one of the perps could have been 16.

Period. That really opens up a lot of possibilities. And some people who were really excluded by age should not be.

One of the perps could have been 16 at that time, could have grown up, changed.

I hope it explains something. A minor committing the crime changes the game.

Could that be the twist?

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Hello, First post ever so please bear with me. I signed up for WS a couple of years ago and then life got busy. I recently listened to the Down the Hill podcast and it has made this case a bit of an obsession again so I decided to come on here and read about other opinions and theories. I have been doing my best to catch up on this thread and have found the info provided as well as your ideas and theories very interesting. I have a couple of opinions of my own I wanted the share and see if these have come up before...
1) I have seen mention that Libby took the brunt of the attack. I wonder if Abby was BG's intended target and Libby was fighting like hell to save her from what was going to happen.
2) Since I first heard the 2nd release of the voice recording with "Guys" added 2 things have stuck with me. First is that "Guys" is a term that would often be used by someone you know. It is very informal if you will. Second is that there is something in the tone when he says, "Guys" that has always given me the impression that perhaps the girls were trying to figure out a way out of the situation or whispering to each other and he was getting them back on track with his plan sort of like, "Guys...c'mon". I know it is one word and it is difficult to explain exactly what I mean but it has always struck me that way.
Both are just my opinion.
Anyway, thanks for reading. I hope I did this right.

IMO, when he says “guys” his voice kind of goes up at the end, like when you are asking a question. The same way it sounds when you try to get someone’s attention when you don’t know their name by saying, “ma’am?” or “sir?” I think the audio of “guys” and “down the hill” are two snippets of a longer conversation.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Meaning they well knew what the girls were planning to do, and that was shortly after the murders. In 2017. 3 years later, crime not solved. How?

What do you mean by “they knew what the girls were planning to do?”

 

[MistyWaters]

Can someone please share the source which states Libby was the target? Until a suspect is charged and convicted, how would LE know this?

As for possible injures, is it coming from the grandfathers statement below? Because there can be various interpretations. Without knowing what the killers motive was, this statement could apply to various scenarios such as protecting Abby, preventing SA, avoiding abduction etc. “Putting up a fight” isn’t necessarily physical either, for example the phrase is common regarding strong-willed children who don’t willing comply aka “put up a fight” over brushing their teeth or going to bed.

“Liberty's grandfather, Dennis Bridge, 59, told DailyMail.com: 'She was a strong-willed girl, she put up a fight.'...”
Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

 

[MistyWaters]

Sorry I had to snip all the beautiful work for one word.

This was from 2019 presser. “Currently between the range of 18 to 40.

So in 2017, he could have been 16...

Or at least one of the perps could have been 16.

Period. That really opens up a lot of possibilities. And some people who were really excluded by age should not be.

One of the perps could have been 16 at that time, could have grown up, changed.

I hope it explains something. A minor committing the crime changes the game.

Could that be the twist?

This is the audio of the interview when Leazenby uses the word “twist” just after the 9 minute mark, from about 8 minutes to understand the entire context. I don’t think he’s dropping a clue to the public at all as to who committed the crime nor was he ever intending it to become a significant remark. He’s talking about the crime scene and as a 30 year veteran he’s never seen before. But in all fairness, this wasn’t like the typical crime scene and this certainly is the first time he’s been involved in a murder investigation involving 2 teens out for a hike, found near the Delphi Historic Trail system.

 

[JnRyan]

This is the audio of the interview when Leazenby uses the word “twist” just after the 9 minute mark, from about 8 minutes to understand the entire context. I don’t think he’s dropping a clue to the public at all as to who committed the crime nor was he ever intending it to become a significant remark. He’s talking about the crime scene and as a 30 year veteran he’s never seen before. But in all fairness, this wasn’t like the typical crime scene and this certainly is the first time he’s been involved in a murder investigation involving 2 teens out for a hike, found near the Delphi Historic Trail system.

Interesting interview. I've heard this interviewer before and when I've heard him talk to LE he has been more aggressive, for lack of a better term. This was an improvement. I find it interesting that the interviewer stated this occurred a couple of miles from his father's house and he just figured it was someone local. The interviewer himself stated that he studied the early photos of the killer thought for sure he would recognize and yet he said he had never seen him before. I find it difficult to fault LE for looking locally as most murders are usually committed by someone the victim knows and such persons are likely in the same general area as the victim. I believe LE made some missteps in this investigation, but the local person aspect is understandable.

 

[Ravenmoon]

No, you're butchering his wording. He said that they were "onto something" early on, not someone. His comments were too vague for anyone to jump to the conclusion that they had a suspect.

Well, It is not my intention to butcher Carter's words. Not in the least. What I stated is basically my take on the information that he has provided.
For you to state that I "butchered" his statement is pretty intense.
What would you take from the statement that they were onto something early on?
"On to something?"
It is and has been my opinion (OPINION) that Carter DOES believe he knows who the responsible individual is.
He just needs that one bit of evidence to prove it.
During the press conference when they released the updated sketches, he did repeat some of the verbiage he has in prior statements . What was different was his body language and his mannerisms.
Sorry that you see my statement as something more nefarious. It was my take on an accumulative study that I have invested myself in for about 3 years and 3 months now.

 

[MistyWaters]

Interesting interview. I've heard this interviewer before and when I've heard him talk to LE he has been more aggressive, for lack of a better term. This was an improvement. I find it interesting that the interviewer stated this occurred a couple of miles from his father's house and he just figured it was someone local. The interviewer himself stated that he studied the early photos of the killer thought for sure he would recognize and yet he said he had never seen him before. I find it difficult to fault LE for looking locally as most murders are usually committed by someone the victim knows and such persons are likely in the same general area as the victim. I believe LE made some missteps in this investigation, but the local person aspect is understandable.

I’ve wondered if LE lost focus by so much attention and the vast amount of tips and leads coming in from across the country. A local and state police department suddenly in the midst of a high profile murder, thousands of tips flooding in “it’s this guy, it’s that guy”, reporters and bloggers from all over interested in interviews, the general public hanging on to every word that was spoken, other police departments advising of potential suspects, and the prospect of a mass murderer travelling from state to state, all that created a huge amount of national attention.

It’s almost as if a year ago somebody came along and said to the TaskForce, give your heads a shake, you can’t take your eye off suspects who had or have local connections. More than two years had already passed when this “new direction” was announced as if it was a real brilliant concept in Homicide Investigation 101, Look Local! I wouldn’t go so far as to say I think the investigation was botched but the longer it takes to make an arrest, the greater chance of any homicide becoming a cold case.

 

[JDough]

I don't know why the FBI didn't haul them all in and interrogate everyone. I have 0 tolerance for this crap. First off there is a serial killer on the loose preying on kids, second he as already brutally killed 2 beautiful children who had their whole lives ahead of them. Third how much money has this investigation already cost, now I understand that people under stress will say whatever but come on..this is ridiculous

With all due respect; how do you know the FBI didn't "haul them all in" for interrogations? IMO, this implies you believe family members cannot be trusted. I can assure you, they have all been scrutinized with a fine-tooth comb. THEY ARE VICTIMS in the case. Not suspects- unless and until LE indicates they are.

Should you desire to learn more about the case (and whether or not family members or friends were interrogated), please check out the media thread, photos, videos, maps, timelines, Terms of Service, etc. They are a wealth of information, and can bring you (and any other new member up-to-speed). Links can be found on page 1 of every thread. I will post below for your convenience.

Special Rules for the Case:
Found on page 1 of every thread.
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

One of WS long-time members (margarita25) spent a great deal of time organizing each MSM article, videos, Press Conferences and photos available (in chronological order). You can find the beginning of her posts at the bottom of page 35:
Media Maps and Timelines:
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Image Discussion Thread:
Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

Case Map:
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - خرائطي على Google

Approved YouTube Channel(s):
Gray Hughes Investigates
Kelsi German

Down The Hill Podcasts:
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com

Scene of the Crime Podcasts:
Kelsi German

Rules- Etiquette & Information:
Rules - Etiquette & Information

Hope this information is helpful. We are now on Thread #122. Many members currently posting have been participating on the thread since the beginning (February 2017). The thread has been shut down (more than once), due to failure in following rules. We all want justice for Abby and Libby- their families too. Understanding the rules will help to prevent thread closure in the future.

 

[Charlot123]

What do you mean by “they knew what the girls were planning to do?”

OK, this was said very soon after the murders.

At that time, I assume, LE did not have the name/s of the perp/perps, nor the results of the DNA. I think, they did not have the pathology reports yet, right?

They knew that the girls went to MHB, disappeared, were searched for and found murdered.

So technically, there was nothing (the LE could have implied) that the girls did wrong. Nor could LE indirectly accuse other parents' kids of being involved, as they shouldn't have had any such information (yet?), right?

So I assume, all LE could have had would have been some reports of the girls' friends. "Oh, I know, they went to the bridge to meet that kid they had a crush on", or "they also planned to go there-and-there from the bridge". Maybe they had minimal amount of SM information, probably, from Libby's computer. So LE must have merely implied that whatever the girls planned, went wrong.

To be honest, the first time I heard it, I understood it in the way of "monitor your kids' social media". Because to reproach the parents and relatives of Abby and Libby for letting them go walk on the trails and across the bridge was unreasonable; the relatives knew about it and arranged the rides, to and fro. They "watched". So I thought, something else immediately came from their best friends, who had more knowledge about the girls' true plans.

 

[Mr applebee]

I’m no good with differences in accents in America, but does the guy on the audio sound like he has a local accent? Or is it impossible to tell?

here in the U.K. for example I’d be able to tell if the guy had a Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle etc accent. Local to me I could tell if someone was from one of a few areas that are pretty close to one another. But that’s because the variation in the accents is quite easy to spot for me. Is the accent in Delphi a prominent one or pretty widespread and generic across a large area?

 

[MontereyMama]

I’m no good with differences in accents in America, but does the guy on the audio sound like he has a local accent? Or is it impossible to tell?

here in the U.K. for example I’d be able to tell if the guy had a Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle etc accent. Local to me I could tell if someone was from one of a few areas that are pretty close to one another. But that’s because the variation in the accents is quite easy to spot for me. Is the accent in Delphi a prominent one or pretty widespread and generic across a large area?

I used to live a couple of hours away from there. Not familiar with Delphi at all but to me he sounds typical of Northern Indiana, Illinois, Southern Michigan. Mid-western. I also think he's not a teenager. IMO
I have only recently become aware of this case. I'm sure it's been discussed and dissected to the nth degree and I won't / can't say anything new. But what a shame this heinous crime has not been solved.

 

[cujenn81]

Down the Hill - podcast
Episode 5: Signatures

Chapter 5: Signatures from Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders

Interview with Robert Ives
(He was the prosecuting attorney for Carroll County at the time of the murders.)

"There were a variety of things at the crime scene.... that were not just 'this is your regular person was killed here crime scene'."

"It's probably not what you would imagine... where people think that I'm talking about... it's probably not because of the unique circumstances--and all unique circumstances you kind of think as a signature."

"There is no clear modus operandi."

"There were two or three things [that I consider signatures]."

"I think it was probably somebody local because it's just not a tourist spot. It's such an unlikely place to be. It's not that famous."

"I do think it will be solved because it's so odd and so unusual, and people are so compelled to talk about the evil things they do. I think this person will either talk to it about someone, or alternatively, they will commit another crime and get caught, and hopefully, confess to this one. Either because they want the fame, or alternatively, because they're trying to make a deal."

[If this person kills again] "...I think that possibly one or two of those [signatures] could pop up again, yes."

"There's less additional information [on the audio/video] than people think there might be."

Q: Were you ever presented with possible suspects?
"Not in the sense where somebody said, 'Do you think there's enough evidence here to charge this person?' but in the sense of 'We have this, and this, and this... what do you think?' Yes. There was some of that, and I would go so far as to say that I believe there's at least one person--or probably a couple of them--that I believe could have committed the crime."

"This was a daylight crime in an area where people could have come along, and I just can't see it as a big master plan. I think it's more a person committed a horrible crime and then they took off. And nobody--or if anybody--saw them, we haven't been able to pinpoint it."

"I do not believe it was a planned crime. Personally, that doesn't make any sense to me."

"I don't think there's any evidence they were lured out there. They just decided to go for a walk. For somebody to know that right then, they'd be there... I don't believe that."


Interview with Mary Ellen O'Toole
(She worked for the FBI for 20 years and more than half of that time was spent working with the Behavior Analysis Unit.)

"Signature behavior is behavior that the offender engages in at a crime scene that is over and beyond what is necessary to complete the crime, and generally, is behavior that is satisfying to the offender--whether it's psychologically satisfying or sexually satisfying behavior."

"The offender will generally attempt to repeat the signature behavior--not the MO, modus operandi, that's something completely different--because that's why he's committing the crime in the first place."

Q: Is it common to have multiple signatures?
"It's certainly possible. Generally, if there are multiple signatures it's because you have a series of crimes. It could be sexual behavior. It could be post-mortem activity. But, if there's sexual behavior, then yes, you could have more than one or two signature behaviors."

"Signatures can happen at any point--before, or during, or after the crime. For example, predatory behavior before the murder scene can be a signature. Post-mortem mutilation after the murders can be a signature."

"Odd behavior might be, again, post-mortem mutilation--what is done to the victims after they've been murdered. It could include redressing the victims. It could include dismemberment. It could include insertion of foreign objects. It could be the placement, and the replacement, of the victims' bodies. It could be the infliction... damage... to the victims, both before death or after death. It could be, again, engaging with the victims in a certain way that is considered odd.

 

[Charlot123]

My amateur opinion is that Kelsi was calling BG out for being weak—which he obviously is. He attacked children, likely because deep down he knows he is weak and cowardly. He probably holds resentment toward women, but wouldn’t attack a grown woman because he is too AFRAID. Girls who are in their preteen/early teen years are likely his target because he views them as both young enough to control without much effort on his part, and old enough to manifest the qualities he despises in adult women.

I think what Kelsi meant was that BG attacks those he perceives as weak, and she has proven herself to be a fighter.

If the killer is the guy on the bridge, the BG, I can not call him weak. He took a risk of abducting two teenagers from a bridge in broad daylight, and murdering them - either immediately, and if not immediately, then bringing them back later. It is all risky.

I think he has two traits. One, he is... how to even say... for him murdering people who somehow stand in his way would be the easiest solution to a problem. Usually it is the opposite way, and not only because of morality, maybe out of fear, too. People usually try to exhaust peaceful ways of negotiating. Even Italian Mafia, if Mario Puzo is to be believed, tried to "reason" with the person first, and only then kill, if reasoning would not work.

It could be modern mafia, god knows how they think. But I still believe that "teenage" factor is frowned upon even among them. Unless they feel "dissed" by the young women (also a factor to be considered).

Or it is the person whose thinking pattern is very odd? He enjoys killing, and he probably enjoys "problem solving" that involves killings.

He is not lazy - it takes a lot of time and energy to plan and execute.

I wonder if there is a good psychological portrait of him. I am not asking myself where he lives. I assume he could live anywhere. But - what are his hobbies? They all say, hunting and fishing, outdoorsy activity. I bet he likes to play games, but are these puzzles, board games or computer games? I bet he is a collector, but what does he collect? Is he like Eric Harris, very nice-looking, polite, even, a former gifted kid with undiagnosed mood disorder, who is totally psychotic inside but able to pull himself together for the spectators? Or is he more detached and odd?

At this, professionally, it does not imply "a trained murderer". I have read about long-term executioners, who did not enjoy their jobs (doing it very well at this), and ended up committing suicide. No, it is just a personal pattern of thinking.

I wish we could find out, one day. Because it is all in the genes...

 

[Falling Down]

I used to live a couple of hours away from there. Not familiar with Delphi at all but to me he sounds typical of Northern Indiana, Illinois, Southern Michigan. Mid-western. I also think he's not a teenager. IMO
I have only recently become aware of this case. I'm sure it's been discussed and dissected to the nth degree and I won't / can't say anything new. But what a shame this heinous crime has not been solved.

Same here.

Northern IN, IL, MI.

I think he's from the region, but maybe not right in Delphi or Carroll Cty.

JMO

 

[cujenn81]

After going thru all of those quotes yesterday... here's my take on everything.

I think the first sketch was created using multiple pieces of information that were taken from multiple sources---witness statements, images from the video, etc. It took some time to compile all of this information, which is why the sketch was not released right away.

The second sketch was drawn using a description given by a single eyewitness. This description was probably included with the information they used to create the first sketch... but it was mixed in with a bunch of other stuff too. This could explain how the suspect might look like a combination of the two sketches.

Perhaps, they chose to go with the compilation sketch initially because the eyewitness description didn't appear to describe the man shown in the video (because I certainly don't see the resemblance).

In regards to DNA evidence -- I think they found some DNA but aren't sure if the DNA belongs to the suspect.