Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[somequestions]

If the murder case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German is ever going to get solved, it is probably going to take a different approach. After over 3 years and almost 50,000 tips, how would you solve the Delphi murders?

I would try to do the same thing as Liberty German did. I would focus first on all the tips that describe seeing the bridge guy on or before February 13, 2017. If bridge guy did change his appearance it would probably be after the crime. Then hope that among all those tips the right one is in there somewhere.

 

[abstr]

Blue-eyed redheads are not uncommon at all. You said, redheads, and it popped into my mind, "the Vikings!" But not only. The Celts, the northern people, some Ashkenazi have picked up this gene during European bottleneck. The gene for red hair would be inherited independently from blue eyes, but it is not a rare combination at all. Not at all. The first phenotype I imagined thinking of red hair was, grey eyes.

I wonder if BG has daltonism.

I am Ashkenazi with a tiny bit of English. I have blue eyes and when younger was strawberry, then turned to an auburn red. I have blue eyes that at times have been referred to as striking.

 

[Charlot123]

I have heard this..
and I know that it can happen.
However:
Most redheads have a gene mutation in the melanocortin 1 receptor (MC1R). When MC1R is inactivated, the body produces more pheomelanin, which is responsible for reddish skin and hair tones, than eumelanin, which is responsible for shades of brown and black.

OOPS.. The rest of my reply failed to post: SO EBM to ADD:
Around 17 per cent of people have blue eyes, and when combined with 1-2 per cent having red hair, the odds of having both traits are around 0.17 per cent.
This is according to medical express.

Further EBM to add.. that this is a theory that I have had regarding why NO blue eyes .

But, this is in the world. Including Africa, Scandinavia, Italy, China, Northern Germany.
And they are lying anyhow, as only 8-10% of people in the world have blue eyes.

IRL, this is where you have to look at the inhabitants of Delphi and their progenitors. Germany and Ireland, I presume.

Ireland has the highest percentage of redheads.

"Ireland has the highest per capita percentage of redheads in the world -- anywhere from 10 to 30 percent, according to Eupedia".

And I haven't checked blue eyes in Ireland. Bet more than in the world.

So, while in the world blue eyes/red hair may be very rare, in Delphi the combo probably way more common

ETA: checked "how common are blue eyes in Ireland?" Ha! 86%. So the odds of blue eyes/red hair in Ireland would be 86/100 × 10-30/100 = 860-2580/10000. Or, 8.6% to 25.8%.

Delphi is probably halfway between Ireland and the world.

Sorry if I made arithmetic mistakes, I try not to use calculators in principle. Caught one mistake already ))

 

[Hansen]

I think this case needs a fresh set of eyes. I think everything needs to be gone over with a fine tooth comb by a new set of detectives. Every alibi, every person they know that was near the crime scene. In my opinion mistakes have been made locally and a fresh set of eyes would help. This department has had long enough.

 

[PaulaDC]

Here's the eye color comment
UPDATE: Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths

 

[Charlot123]

I believe, LE/FBI were onto something in the beginning, far earlier than SUMMER 2017. That would have been the right path, which they left at some point to follow the wrong path off the junction (trust in the wrong person, deception by the person, clever maneuver around an alibi by the person - something like that?).
-.-
Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”
Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

In my mind, I think that they were onto something in the days surrounding the search on Bicycle Bridge Road. Not necessarily this episode itself, but around it.

Search continues for Delphi killer

 

[Falling Down]

Here's the eye color comment
UPDATE: Witness aided in sketch of suspect in Indiana teens' deaths

He said the sketch is "an artist's composite of the information" collected by all agencies involved in the investigation. Riley said the witness who saw the suspect was close enough to him to say that he did not have blue eyes, but was uncertain of his eye color.

 

[cujenn81]

I wish LE had omitted the “definitely not blue” eyes statement altogether. (Or I guess I should say that I’d only be okay with it if the info came from DNA analysis. But that’s not what they said... they said this information was relayed to them by a witness.) My eyes are blue — but they are a very dark blue. Think more along the lines of a denim blue. Like most people, they appear lighter or darker depending on the day, my mood, or the clothes that I’m wearing. Therefore, there are times when I think it’d be easy to mistake my blue eyes for “definitely not blue” unless you were right up in my face.

ETA: I also just wanted to add that I’ve done the Ancestry DNA thing. The analysis concluded that I likely have light colored eyes... but it didn’t specify that they were blue. (PS. I have no idea if they can determine the exact eye color of a person by analyzing their genome sequence or not. I just wanted to share the information they gave me.)

 

[sunshineray]

Good point. The murders occurred appx mid-afternoon on a
Monday, the FBI Evidence Response Team searched the woods two days later. Between the time of the discovery of the bodies on Tuesday and the arrival of the FBI team the following day did any processing of the crime scene occur, we don’t know.

BBM

“Police, including the FBI Evidence Response Team, searched the woods Wednesday looking for evidence in the case. Divers joined police searching the crime scene for clues. One source said FBI and local investigators are literally searching beneath every leaf....”
Police confirm bodies found near Delphi are missing teens, searching for suspect

Wasn't there helicopter footage showing where the police were situated after the girls were discovered and you could see flashes like from a camera, down in the woods below? IIRC

 

[sunshineray]

My granddaughters have red hair and blue eyes. Just saying.

It's a very rare and beautiful combination <3 Something like 0.17, very low percentage.
.

 

[Charlot123]

I wish LE had omitted the “definitely not blue” eyes statement altogether. (Or I guess I should say that I’d only be okay with it if the info came from DNA analysis. But that’s not what they said... they said this information was relayed to them by a witness.) My eyes are blue — but they are a very dark blue. Think more along the lines of a denim blue. Like most people, they appear lighter or darker depending on the day, my mood, or the clothes that I’m wearing. Therefore, there are times when I think it’d be easy to mistake my blue eyes for “definitely not blue” unless you were right up in my face.

ETA: I also just wanted to add that I’ve done the Ancestry DNA thing. The analysis concluded that I likely have light colored eyes... but it didn’t specify that they were blue. (PS. I have no idea if they can determine the exact eye color of a person by analyzing their genome sequence or not. I just wanted to share the information they gave me.)

Interesting. BTW, I did genomic testing in 23@me, Ancestry, and FTDNA, for me and my dad, in all three. And I ran all our genomes obtained with the help these companies through Promethease. I just wanted to see how well they counted "medical" snips. It seems to me that 23@me was the best for Promethease and eye color determination. But all genetic companies have been mistaken with my eye color, saying "brown".

My chance of having blue eyes is only 5%, but this is exactly what I got.

Do you have any brown-eyed ancestors? I wonder what makes blue color "intense".

 

[tresir2012]

I agree with pretty much everything you posted.
Except, I am on the fence about 2 people involved.
Sometimes I think there were 2 and other times I think just 1.
I do believe LE knows but cannot get the evidence to arrest him/them.
I don't think there is much DNA if any and what there is has been contaminated by all the people out there searching.
LE messed up by letting everyone and their brother around the crime scene, so no valuable proof.
Again, as you say, if there are 2 perps, they cant figure out which one actually killed Libby and Abbey
Locals suspect /know but again, no proof as too many people out there searching and cross contamination of DNA.
LE know but cannot prove BG was there at that time and on that day.
This last reason being my main reason it is not solved even with Libbys video and voice recording.
I mean, come on, Libby gave us and LE VIDEO OF THE PERP, VOICE OF THE PERP...and here we are 3 yrs later and NO arrest.

I agree this is a likely possibility. It is the only reason they did not do a 3rd anniversary PC IMO

 

[tresir2012]

A big thank you to all of you for continuing to post in Abigail and Liberty’s case thread and for not giving up hope that justice will be done. I haven’t been able to post much recently but I still think of the girl’s case every day and will never give up hope the monster will be caught and punished.

Glad to hear from you GJR.

 

[tresir2012]

It seems that they are. Maybe they were wrong, and OBG confirmed his alibi. And I could understand it, and accept, were it not one phrase said by DC on April 2019 conference. Imprecise citation, “we were onto something in the beginning”. So, they were following the right path in 2017...but OBG sketch was released in 2017... now they say the path was wrong and release the sketch of another suspect...but how then could they be right in 2017?... (I’m baffled and confused about the case).

Maybe the person who gave BG his alibi is dead. So the alibi although false cannot now be disproved. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

I thought I heard that the second sketch was made shortly after the murders, but never released for whatever reason. Am I wrong about this?

Yes it was made a couple of days after the murders. I think the reason they did not release that second sketch is because they tracked down that person and he had an alibi. There is no other reason why they did not release it. Therefore, they do know who it is but he has/had an alibi. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

We know that ISP and a local FBI agent were on the scene. But do we know when trained crime scene investigators were on scene - for example, those trained in identifying evidence that might have DNA or fingerprints and how to preserve them? We know from your article that the FBI had a team there on Wednesday over 24 hours after the bodies were found, but we can't tell from that article if they arrived at 12:37 on Wednesday OR if they arrived at 12:37 on Tuesday. There are some things the first responder can do like determine how large an area needs to be restricted to access, photographing the scene, what evidence needs immediate attention and so on.

The helicopter video captures the camera flashes at one point so was that video on the Tuesday or Wednesday?

 

[almagata]

Someone had posted this article about eye color changing in different mental states. I think it is possible that BG eyes were darker than they typically are seen.

3 Clues to Recognize Bipolar Disorder Mania in the Eyes

 

[Jabarn]

That’s correct. In the HLN podcast, Ives said there are what he would consider to be at least two or three signatures.

That is interesting to me because when the investigators are talking about signatures they are talking about a fantasy based killer who has certain compulsions. It would be interesting to see what the signatures are here.

This would seem to point away from a revenge type killing of someone who had an axe to grind with the girls or their families, IMO.

Article: Ritual and Signature in Serial Sexual Homicide

 

[JnRyan]

The helicopter video captures the camera flashes at one point so was that video on the Tuesday or Wednesday?

Wow! I remember that video and I believe it is the one with the crime scene investigators wading through the creek while wearing insulated suits. But I can't remember which day it was. I'll have to go back and look.

 

[MistyWaters]

Wow! I remember that video and I believe it is the one with the crime scene investigators wading through the creek while wearing insulated suits. But I can't remember which day it was. I'll have to go back and look.

The video link is at the bottom of this page. It’s dated Feb 14th, edited Feb 15th so it’s hard to tell when it was added. The crime scene investigation lasted several days iirc.
MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi