In my occupation, everyone was an auditor, so diversity was limited to what audits they participated on - similar to having all participants being LE officers. (I did however, participate in a major software acquisition where we had 50-100 persons - budget, local production, major production (above the local level), IT, management - and the results were interesting.) A brainstorming session involving other than or in addition to LE? That might lead to interesting thoughts and questions.
Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125
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somequestions
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This case probably is not going to get solved until the investigators get off of the idea that the killer must be local because he knew the Monon High Bridge trail area in Delphi, IN. The case probably is not going to get solved until the investigators realize that their sketches are not even close to the video taken by Liberty German. It was understandable to follow these ideas at the beginning, but after 3 1/2 years it is time to try something else.
In my opinion, the investigation was always going in the same direction, different sketch. If you want to believe everything that the investigators tell you about the case go ahead, but I think their emotions have gotten the better of them when it comes to good decision making. As for Kelsi, I know she has stated the man on the bridge must have known the Monon High Bridge area too. But I think the lesson that could end up occurring here is that not all criminals fit into a profile. When I read that she is majoring in criminology I hope that she does not end up being an intelligent person at low level job. I hope she is at least getting a minor in a skill that will be an asset in getting a good job like business management or information technology. But I understand. I thought the same thing at her age. People are entitled to their opinions and the paths that they choose.
The silence since April 2019 is an indication to me that the investigation is stalled out. I would clearly put this case in the never going to get solved file if it were not for the video from Liberty German's phone. In my opinion, they have absolutely no idea who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German and have absolutely no idea what he looks like(except for Liberty German's video). Time is proving this to be true.
If this case is ever solved it will be interesting to see how it all turned out.
MistyWaters
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This quote is from the 2nd anniversary. At some point in time it appears to me quantity overtook quality in this investigation. I say that because I’ll admit the continually growing tip count always somewhat perplexed me, what’s the use considering none led to an arrest.
For another agency to start at the beginning would be a monumental time-consuming task....why I think LE is still counting on a good tip to come in even if someone who knows the killer already provided a tip and believes their information might’ve not been clear or not detailed enough the first time around.
Have any suspects been arrested?
No. Law-enforcement authorities have conducted interviews over the past two years with more than 1,000 people, Riley said, but none have led to an arrest.
Some Delphi-area residents as well as men arrested elsewhere on unrelated crimes have been interviewed, but no one has yet been named a suspect.
"We have talked to well over 1,100 people. That includes persons of interest, that includes anybody and everybody that's involved in this case. If their name has been turned in, we've talked or attempted to talk to 99.9 percent of them.....
.......Riley said there have been more than 38,000 tips to police about this case, and he added that "close to 100 percent" have been vetted..”
Delphi murders: What we still don't know two years after the slayings of 2 teenagers
For another agency to start at the beginning would be a monumental time-consuming task....why I think LE is still counting on a good tip to come in even if someone who knows the killer already provided a tip and believes their information might’ve not been clear or not detailed enough the first time around.
Have any suspects been arrested?
No. Law-enforcement authorities have conducted interviews over the past two years with more than 1,000 people, Riley said, but none have led to an arrest.
Some Delphi-area residents as well as men arrested elsewhere on unrelated crimes have been interviewed, but no one has yet been named a suspect.
"We have talked to well over 1,100 people. That includes persons of interest, that includes anybody and everybody that's involved in this case. If their name has been turned in, we've talked or attempted to talk to 99.9 percent of them.....
.......Riley said there have been more than 38,000 tips to police about this case, and he added that "close to 100 percent" have been vetted..”
Delphi murders: What we still don't know two years after the slayings of 2 teenagers
SMK777
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I wish they would use this method!
SMK777
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If they have no idea what he looks like (and I tend to agree with you that they don’t) then how does Liberty’s video prevent the case from going into the never going to get solved file?
Blueberry2720
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If a witness that saw BG feels strongly that he/she knows who it might be, or who he looks like, and that person has a prior arrest (regardless of what for), can LE commission a sketch from the arrest mugshot? or any photograph of the person for that matter?
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somequestions
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Liberty German's video will always be the truest description of the man on the bridge. Someone someday may come across her video while researching this case and realize that the person they see is someone they know from work, a family member, or an acquaintance. But this person will have to be able to disregard the two sketches released by LE and focus on the video.
Then that tip comes in and the police are able to connect the tip to a piece of physical evidence from the crimes. I only meant the case might go into the never going to get solved file if the police do not have DNA or some other type of hard physical evidence. We have already seen how many old cases have been solved by some link to old DNA evidence. I have never heard any firm confirmation that LE has DNA evidence in this case.
The irony in this case is that if those two sketches released are wrong, especially the second one, police may inadvertently be helping the killer in this case elude capture. The reason I believe this is because many people do NOT disregard what the police have to say because most of the time their information is good information. I think many people probably believe in the police and their second sketch. In this case, I think a lot of the information regarding sketches that was released is based on emotion and not on actual investigative evidence. It is information based on a presumption of wanting to solve the case so badly they were willing to put out another sketch and try and make people believe they were heading in a "new" direction with their investigation.
It is hard to predict the future as to what might happen with this case over time. As of today all anyone can do is hypothesize that the police are on the right track because most of the time they are in an investigation. But in my personal opinion, I think if the case is ever solved people are going to look back on it and realize, "Oh my goodness, what if she hadn't taken that video?!"
That is what I mean by this case possibly becoming a case study for other law enforcement agencies.
Charlot123
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Colorado...
Silver_produce0
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Why Colorado?
ETA. I assumed that bringing in another states agency was following this idea. Look at what we have, the tips, the evidence, and where would GBI’s path differed from Indiana? That’s what I thought led to the second sketch. A tip or series of tips, previously deemed irrelevant, seeming to be more on the nose in hindsight.
Hope they catch this SOB.
Falling Down
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Or someone has seen him there before, or on another trail here in northern Indiana.
Good post.
Charlot123
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I remember one situation in my field of expertise, when the case did not look like anything else, everything was odd and off. So I had no clue, and I was supposed to act. My colleagues recommended to consult a specialist in a different, close, area. Who simply made a mistake. Proceeding from his mistake, I made several very wrong assumptions, and as the result, the case (accidentally) ended with the third group of specialists, and then the fourth, who were able to help...to make a long story short, what we all saw was 0.0001% of similar cases. Later I couldn’t find information about it even in textbooks, it is so rare. My colleagues said, “does it even happen?” It all ended well. But I remember how we all, four groups of specialists, were seeing the very tip of the iceberg, and thinking it was the whole case...what was underwater was totally, utterly different.
I think that from the get go, Delphi case is an extreme outlier, where nothing is what it seems to be. And the Indiana LE were mistaken because it is a rarity. And maybe GA specialists were wrong because it is an outlier of outliers. I don’t know what is wrong in this case, time, place, circumstances, witnesses, something with the video or audio. But I feel it is one of these, “does it even happen?”, cases.
This was at the 2 year mark when there are 38K tips and LE has talked to 1,100 people. That is something compared to cases on here that we were to combine 4 or 5 of them they wouldn't haven't these numbers. Now they have between 50K and 60K in tips? And who knows how many names added to that 1.1K of people talked to? Any way I look at it this is a case of proportions I haven't seen before.
And yet it isn't solved. Amazing. But what gets to me is who could do something like this to someone who could be our daughters or grand-daughters or nieces? I can't imagine that in my mind.
cujenn81
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Down the Hill: The Delphi Murders
Episode 4 — Three Words
HLN News Report -- February 22, 2017
We do have breaking news tonight in the murders of two teenagers in Indiana. Liberty German and Abigail Williams went missing last week after going hiking. Their bodies were found the next day. And for the past week, we have been looking at this image--an image of a man officers call the prime suspect in the case.
And, new tonight--we are hearing for the very first time, three words muttered by a man in the vicinity of those two girls on that day.
DTH:
I want to go back to the video for a moment. Have you seen the whole video?
Sgt. Kim Riley:
Yes.
DTH:
Obviously, without telling us the parts that you don’t want to release, can you tell us what that’s like to watch that video?
Sgt. Kim Riley:
It was scary. Uh, I guess would be one way to put it. Just [pause] seeing, um, you know—seeing, just seeing the feelings that were going through the girls at the time. I’m not going to say which one, in particular. But, just knowing that—I, you know, just knowing what they knew is—is just, is just frightening for, uh, a 13- or 14-year old girl to know.
And, I-I just think, just—it kinda went through my mind for a long time, over and over again for a long time. Every now and then, I’ll think about it. But, uh, for the first six to eight months, I mean it was something I was going through for all the time. Uh, I mean, was just always think about it. It was just, uh, very heart wrenching for an adult to deal with, let alone a 13- or 14-year-old girl.
It was scary. Uh, it was, uh, I felt so sad there was nothing I could do. But, that—that’s the way it is, you know. Unfortunately, we’re not there for kids all the time, and sometimes they—bad things happen. And I guess that’s the only way I can explain it.
DTH:
Did you watch the video that early in the process?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
As I recall, yeah. I would say it was just a matter of days, and when I say days I mean no more than a couple days into it that I had the opportunity to review it.
DTH:
And I know there’s stuff in that video that you’re not releasing publicly. Can you talk though a little bit about that process of watching that video and what that was like?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
Um, [long pause] early on, like many of us in our leadership roles, and many have commented since then—I mean Mike Patty and I have even talked about it. But, [deep sigh] for Libby to have that mindset to be able to do what she did. In my mind, I thought, you know, she’s helping here. She’s telling us something. And it--obviously, as time went along, we found out what she was telling us.
And so, yeah, when I first saw that—I guess knowing that she’s at the age that she is at that point, I’m thinking she’s sharp. I mean, this is great. Ya know, and I—you know, all kudos to her for what she did there. Uh, I think it was, uh, definitely felt to be a huge asset in what we continue to do here and follow into this. And so, and I still feel like at the end of the day so to say, that it’s still going to be a plus to have that on board.
DTH:
When you heard the voice…
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
Um hmm.
DTH:
What went through your mind?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
My initial thought was that, uh, it was satan’s voice himself. I’m a very spiritual man, so that was my exact thought—that that’s the devil himself speaking.
DTH:
Do you listen to people when you’re walking around town? When you’re sitting in restaurants? Are you listening for that voice?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
Ahh, not so much during—right now, but yes in the beginning. And yet again, as we revisit—as more so my investigators and me, but, uh—when we revisit certain aspects, uh yeah. And there are times that I will go back—actually on my weekends that I’m at home sitting in my La-Z-Boy, I’ve been known to start up that audio again. And listen to it and go [whispered] “who is that?”
PRESS CONFERENCE | FEBRUARY 22, 2017
Superintendent Doug Carter:
[I omitted the portions of this statement that were transcribed in my Scene of the Crime notes.]
To the media, my gosh all I can say is to give you my sincere thanks. [Deep sigh] See, this isn’t like TV. There’s a perception that this can be solved very quickly. Everything we do can be solved very quickly, but this is a testament that it can’t and we need you. We’ve needed you since last week, we need you today, and we need you tomorrow. And likely will need the media across this nation. So, from a simple like me to you, I say thank you.
[Deep sign]
To the people dressed funny like me and those that represent the law enforcement profession, please understand we’re human beings just like you. I’d stand anywhere in the nation with the people standing behind me, and I would suggest to you that every time that something like this happens, a little piece of us dies as well. But, I also want you to understand how committed we are, as a collective one, and we will continue.
[Deep sigh]
I’ve had an opportunity to speak to my boss, Governor Eric Holcomb, about this situation. And every time I do, I see this look come over his face just like yours and this community’s. And that’s—that’s the unfortunate experience of experiencing evil. We’re not stopping.
[Deep sigh]
As poor as this picture is somebody knows. And if you’re watching, [long pause] we’ll find you. Who’s next? I hate to ask you that question, and I’d give my life to not have to. But I know you’ve asked yourself that very question. We must recognize that you see we’re all the same—we’re all human beings.
We must keep our resolve for Libby and Abby, for this community, and frankly to ensure that good trumps evil and it will. You’re going to hear more in just a minute about what we know. Do not discount the voice that you’ll hear. We will stay committed with resolve very rarely exhibited with human behavior until its conclusion. Please be patient. Become our partners and communicate with us as often as you can.
And now, from a very humble servant, this is the most blessed guy on this planet to represent the profession that I represent. To Abby and Libby, it’s my hope and my prayer that you’re now experiencing God’s promise of eternal peace.
DTH:
The down the hill—do you believe you know what hill that was that they went down?
Superintendent Doug Carter:
I believe it was right down there.
DTH:
And is that a steep heel? Is it a walkable hill?
Superintendent Doug Carter:
No, it’s [unintelligible]. It’s pretty rough terrain.
FEBRUARY 22, 2017 - PRESS CONFERENCE (cont’d)
At this time I would like to invite Captain Dave Burston, Chief Public Information Officer for the Indiana State Police to the podium.
Captain Dave Burston:
[Again, I have omitted the portion of this audio transcribed in my Scene of the Crime podcast notes.]
There’s enough there that somebody could recognize this person’s voice. And, as Superintendent Carter said, not to rationalize away. If you hear this today, and you think my God that sounds like fill-in-the-blank, call us. Make an anonymous tip. Tell us who you think it is. Let us investigate it.
If it’s not the right person, they’ll just be out of a little bit of time and they’ll be cleared, and they can go on and never know that you called. But you may tell us who the right person was, and you could be the person that helps us to solve this horrible crime.
The image that you see there of the suspect. That came from Liberty’s phone. I think many of you had speculated that before, and we weren’t prepared to discuss it at the time. We have more video; we’re not releasing it. It’s germane to our investigation. And it’s important that we spread that person’s voice far and wide for somebody that will recognize who that is and will call us and tell us.
DTH spoke with an Audio Forensics Expert to see what he could glean from the audio--could he detect an accent or regional dialect, for example. The expert said not much of anything could be obtained from a sample size this short.
FEBRUARY 22, 2017 - PRESS CONFERENCE (cont’d)
Captain Dave Burston answers a few questions from the press.
Is there any specific information that say the person is local or from far away?
No.
Could this be a stranger crime?
That’s a possibility.
Could this be somebody that knew that the girls were going to be there at that time?
That’s a possibility; nothing is off the table.
How long after Liberty posted to social media did this crime happen? Did the murders happen immediately after or was there time for someone to see them on social media and then meet them on that trail?
We know there are going to be lots of questions that we specifically cannot answer because there are things that we do not want to tip our hand to the person responsible for this. That kind of information we are keeping close to ourselves.
Is it reasonable to think—that’s an area—one of two things happened. This was a chance encounter--that’s possible. Don’t think it’s likely but it’s possible. Or that person knew that they were going to be there. That’s possible, as well. Those are things we’re looking into.
DTH reached out to the former Captain to clarify this statement--did he mean to imply that the girls were targeted.
*Burston is no longer a part of this investigation, as he retired from his position with the Indiana State Police in 2019. He is now an Information Officer for the Department of Corrections.
Burston told DTH that he wasn't saying the girls were targeted. He was simply saying at that point in the investigation -- in February 2017 -- investigators were looking at all options.
DTH then goes on to clarify the difference between a target and target of opportunity.
FEBRUARY 22, 2017 - PRESS CONFERENCE (cont’d)
Based on what you have, and what other investigators have at this time, do you believe this individual has killed before and what makes you believe he will do it again?
Uh, there has been no indication right now that—that this is part of a, uh, a serial murder, if that’s what your question is. Um, so, as of-as of the facts that we have collected at this point and time, we have not tied it to any other known homicides.
You played three words, [unintelligible]. Is there more?
We have other information that we’re not sharing. And specific to your question, Rafael, uh, keep in mind that there, uh, is likeliness of the possibility of, uh, more than one person.
Uh, we’re not saying that the person—that the voice that you heard is the same as this person here. This is all very complicated, very involved. And as much as we would like to tell you everything, more importantly, we want to solve the crime.
[Another officer—who is not mentioned by name—added]
But again, rest assured, we’re using our resources to put the person (and/or persons) that murdered Liberty German and Abigail Williams into our jail here in Carroll County.
Carrie Timmons:
The first time I heard it, it wasn’t cleaned up yet. It was at the press conference. I don’t know if anybody really remembers, but it was the very first time that recording was played. You couldn’t really understand what he was saying, and it was all “ruhhruhh”—like computerized sounding. And then, they were able to clean it up and suddenly it was DTH. And it was like, what the hell is he saying? Like why?
And I remember thinking it doesn’t even sound, like, urgent. He’s not yelling; he’s calm. Still to this day, it’s so eerie sounding to me. But I didn’t recognize it. It didn’t sound like anybody I knew—didn’t sound like anybody I had ever heard before or a phrase I had ever even heard anybody use before. Like, normally we like—just go—it wouldn’t like, it didn’t make any sense. So, that was weird.
I still wish—there are times I still wish I could hear more. But I don’t know how much more there is that I could handle hearing, so I don’t—I try not to think of what is actually going on when he says those words.
Anna Williams:
Every time something like that would happen I would hold my breath because part of you wants this over, and you hope you know who’s in that picture. And you hope you recognize that voice, and then the other part of you hopes you don’t. Because the idea that the person is most likely here or has lived here or somebody that I may have crossed paths with—whether I know who this person was or not or I knew them. It makes you ill, and that is probably one of the hardest things to move through life on. Until this person is caught, that every day there’s a potential of them crossing your path.
Erica Gibson:
She [Libby] knew something was up. She knew she had to do something. She probably didn’t even have service. So, she thought of the next thing she could, and I don’t think a lot of people do think of that. She didn’t know exactly what was gonna happen. I don’t even know if she knew the guy was bad.
Ya know, sometimes we joke around. Abby, um, when Abby was out with her mom and stuff, she would just take a photo and be like—joke around and be like, “that’s your boyfriend!” Or, you know, just joking around. And so like, it could’ve started out like as a joke like that.
DTH:
You guys would like, what? Text that to each other or Snapchatted?
Erica Gibson:
Well, um, we did those jokes on the volleyball bus mostly. Like she’d take a photo and then she’d show me. We never sent them, but like it could’ve been something like that, ya know. Like, knowing them—they’re skitzy people—always so goofy that she’s like, “oh, that person scares me!” Or stuff like that and that’s how she would act.
But I think it may’ve—they thought maybe it would’ve been funny or something like that. I don’t think that they ever thought—cause they get scared but to me it’s like a joking scared. So, that guy musta really, I don’t know—scared them to do that.
Kelsi German:
I don’t think that I knew the voice or the person that was in the video. But watching the video, I was overwhelmed that my sister was able to do something like that, and that she was able to know that something was gonna happen. It was also very sad to know that she knew that something was going to happen—enough to take this video.
Um, so, so many emotions are hitting me at once watching it that I don’t really know exactly what I was feeling. I just know that I was overwhelmed with so many emotions that I kind of—it was just shocking to me. I knew she was smart—I know she is smart, um, and she does that kind of stuff all the time, but it was crazy to think she was able to know before something happened—that she needed to do something.
DTH:
She’s been called a hero for that.
Kelsi German:
Yeah, um, and she is but I definitely think both of them are. I don’t think that one would’ve left the other. So, to me, Abby was my hero because she stayed with my sister. And, um, I love them both for that.
DTH:
Do you think that Libby took that video on purpose because she was concerned?
Carrie Timmons:
I think she got him in the video because she was concerned, but I don’t think that was her initial purpose in taking the video. Because it was my understanding that they were out there taking pictures and video anyway.
And like i’m learning now with younger girls, with Snapchat and all this other video social media, they do that crap all the time. Even if they’re just picking up a rock, they’re still taking a little video of it—which now I’m very thankful for but I didn’t get it at the time.
So, I think now, looking back, she probably wasn’t exactly videoing him. I think she left it on and made sure it was recording because she knew something was not right, but I don’t think that was the initial purpose. I could be completely wrong though; I haven’t seen or heard the entire video.
Mike Patty:
And I’ve been asked the question, ya know, that-that would’ve been Libby capturing that information. Ya know, and if things would’ve been different and the girls wouldn’t have been murdered, she would’ve come home and said “papaw, look at this”. This guy was out here really acting weird, what a strange guy, ya know. And would’ve shared that with me. I, I know that’s what she would’ve done and said this is a real weirdo out there. Of course, then we would’ve said no more trails, ya know.
That’s why she would’ve captured that. No doubt in mind, she would’ve come home and said look at this weirdo.
DTH:
Do you recognize anything in her video or the still they’ve released?
Mike Patty:
Unfortunately, no. I wish I could and I wish I could recognize that voice. I wish I could. I’ve racked my brain millions of times, a thousands and thousands and thousands of times. Um, still even to this day—thinking something’s gonna trigger and I’m gonna say, “yeah, I“—but no, I don’t.
Episode 4 — Three Words
HLN News Report -- February 22, 2017
We do have breaking news tonight in the murders of two teenagers in Indiana. Liberty German and Abigail Williams went missing last week after going hiking. Their bodies were found the next day. And for the past week, we have been looking at this image--an image of a man officers call the prime suspect in the case.
And, new tonight--we are hearing for the very first time, three words muttered by a man in the vicinity of those two girls on that day.
DTH:
I want to go back to the video for a moment. Have you seen the whole video?
Sgt. Kim Riley:
Yes.
DTH:
Obviously, without telling us the parts that you don’t want to release, can you tell us what that’s like to watch that video?
Sgt. Kim Riley:
It was scary. Uh, I guess would be one way to put it. Just [pause] seeing, um, you know—seeing, just seeing the feelings that were going through the girls at the time. I’m not going to say which one, in particular. But, just knowing that—I, you know, just knowing what they knew is—is just, is just frightening for, uh, a 13- or 14-year old girl to know.
And, I-I just think, just—it kinda went through my mind for a long time, over and over again for a long time. Every now and then, I’ll think about it. But, uh, for the first six to eight months, I mean it was something I was going through for all the time. Uh, I mean, was just always think about it. It was just, uh, very heart wrenching for an adult to deal with, let alone a 13- or 14-year-old girl.
It was scary. Uh, it was, uh, I felt so sad there was nothing I could do. But, that—that’s the way it is, you know. Unfortunately, we’re not there for kids all the time, and sometimes they—bad things happen. And I guess that’s the only way I can explain it.
DTH:
Did you watch the video that early in the process?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
As I recall, yeah. I would say it was just a matter of days, and when I say days I mean no more than a couple days into it that I had the opportunity to review it.
DTH:
And I know there’s stuff in that video that you’re not releasing publicly. Can you talk though a little bit about that process of watching that video and what that was like?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
Um, [long pause] early on, like many of us in our leadership roles, and many have commented since then—I mean Mike Patty and I have even talked about it. But, [deep sigh] for Libby to have that mindset to be able to do what she did. In my mind, I thought, you know, she’s helping here. She’s telling us something. And it--obviously, as time went along, we found out what she was telling us.
And so, yeah, when I first saw that—I guess knowing that she’s at the age that she is at that point, I’m thinking she’s sharp. I mean, this is great. Ya know, and I—you know, all kudos to her for what she did there. Uh, I think it was, uh, definitely felt to be a huge asset in what we continue to do here and follow into this. And so, and I still feel like at the end of the day so to say, that it’s still going to be a plus to have that on board.
DTH:
When you heard the voice…
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
Um hmm.
DTH:
What went through your mind?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
My initial thought was that, uh, it was satan’s voice himself. I’m a very spiritual man, so that was my exact thought—that that’s the devil himself speaking.
DTH:
Do you listen to people when you’re walking around town? When you’re sitting in restaurants? Are you listening for that voice?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
Ahh, not so much during—right now, but yes in the beginning. And yet again, as we revisit—as more so my investigators and me, but, uh—when we revisit certain aspects, uh yeah. And there are times that I will go back—actually on my weekends that I’m at home sitting in my La-Z-Boy, I’ve been known to start up that audio again. And listen to it and go [whispered] “who is that?”
PRESS CONFERENCE | FEBRUARY 22, 2017
Superintendent Doug Carter:
[I omitted the portions of this statement that were transcribed in my Scene of the Crime notes.]
To the media, my gosh all I can say is to give you my sincere thanks. [Deep sigh] See, this isn’t like TV. There’s a perception that this can be solved very quickly. Everything we do can be solved very quickly, but this is a testament that it can’t and we need you. We’ve needed you since last week, we need you today, and we need you tomorrow. And likely will need the media across this nation. So, from a simple like me to you, I say thank you.
[Deep sign]
To the people dressed funny like me and those that represent the law enforcement profession, please understand we’re human beings just like you. I’d stand anywhere in the nation with the people standing behind me, and I would suggest to you that every time that something like this happens, a little piece of us dies as well. But, I also want you to understand how committed we are, as a collective one, and we will continue.
[Deep sigh]
I’ve had an opportunity to speak to my boss, Governor Eric Holcomb, about this situation. And every time I do, I see this look come over his face just like yours and this community’s. And that’s—that’s the unfortunate experience of experiencing evil. We’re not stopping.
[Deep sigh]
As poor as this picture is somebody knows. And if you’re watching, [long pause] we’ll find you. Who’s next? I hate to ask you that question, and I’d give my life to not have to. But I know you’ve asked yourself that very question. We must recognize that you see we’re all the same—we’re all human beings.
We must keep our resolve for Libby and Abby, for this community, and frankly to ensure that good trumps evil and it will. You’re going to hear more in just a minute about what we know. Do not discount the voice that you’ll hear. We will stay committed with resolve very rarely exhibited with human behavior until its conclusion. Please be patient. Become our partners and communicate with us as often as you can.
And now, from a very humble servant, this is the most blessed guy on this planet to represent the profession that I represent. To Abby and Libby, it’s my hope and my prayer that you’re now experiencing God’s promise of eternal peace.
DTH:
The down the hill—do you believe you know what hill that was that they went down?
Superintendent Doug Carter:
I believe it was right down there.
DTH:
And is that a steep heel? Is it a walkable hill?
Superintendent Doug Carter:
No, it’s [unintelligible]. It’s pretty rough terrain.
FEBRUARY 22, 2017 - PRESS CONFERENCE (cont’d)
At this time I would like to invite Captain Dave Burston, Chief Public Information Officer for the Indiana State Police to the podium.
Captain Dave Burston:
[Again, I have omitted the portion of this audio transcribed in my Scene of the Crime podcast notes.]
There’s enough there that somebody could recognize this person’s voice. And, as Superintendent Carter said, not to rationalize away. If you hear this today, and you think my God that sounds like fill-in-the-blank, call us. Make an anonymous tip. Tell us who you think it is. Let us investigate it.
If it’s not the right person, they’ll just be out of a little bit of time and they’ll be cleared, and they can go on and never know that you called. But you may tell us who the right person was, and you could be the person that helps us to solve this horrible crime.
The image that you see there of the suspect. That came from Liberty’s phone. I think many of you had speculated that before, and we weren’t prepared to discuss it at the time. We have more video; we’re not releasing it. It’s germane to our investigation. And it’s important that we spread that person’s voice far and wide for somebody that will recognize who that is and will call us and tell us.
DTH spoke with an Audio Forensics Expert to see what he could glean from the audio--could he detect an accent or regional dialect, for example. The expert said not much of anything could be obtained from a sample size this short.
FEBRUARY 22, 2017 - PRESS CONFERENCE (cont’d)
Captain Dave Burston answers a few questions from the press.
Is there any specific information that say the person is local or from far away?
No.
Could this be a stranger crime?
That’s a possibility.
Could this be somebody that knew that the girls were going to be there at that time?
That’s a possibility; nothing is off the table.
How long after Liberty posted to social media did this crime happen? Did the murders happen immediately after or was there time for someone to see them on social media and then meet them on that trail?
We know there are going to be lots of questions that we specifically cannot answer because there are things that we do not want to tip our hand to the person responsible for this. That kind of information we are keeping close to ourselves.
Is it reasonable to think—that’s an area—one of two things happened. This was a chance encounter--that’s possible. Don’t think it’s likely but it’s possible. Or that person knew that they were going to be there. That’s possible, as well. Those are things we’re looking into.
DTH reached out to the former Captain to clarify this statement--did he mean to imply that the girls were targeted.
*Burston is no longer a part of this investigation, as he retired from his position with the Indiana State Police in 2019. He is now an Information Officer for the Department of Corrections.
Burston told DTH that he wasn't saying the girls were targeted. He was simply saying at that point in the investigation -- in February 2017 -- investigators were looking at all options.
DTH then goes on to clarify the difference between a target and target of opportunity.
FEBRUARY 22, 2017 - PRESS CONFERENCE (cont’d)
Based on what you have, and what other investigators have at this time, do you believe this individual has killed before and what makes you believe he will do it again?
Uh, there has been no indication right now that—that this is part of a, uh, a serial murder, if that’s what your question is. Um, so, as of-as of the facts that we have collected at this point and time, we have not tied it to any other known homicides.
You played three words, [unintelligible]. Is there more?
We have other information that we’re not sharing. And specific to your question, Rafael, uh, keep in mind that there, uh, is likeliness of the possibility of, uh, more than one person.
Uh, we’re not saying that the person—that the voice that you heard is the same as this person here. This is all very complicated, very involved. And as much as we would like to tell you everything, more importantly, we want to solve the crime.
[Another officer—who is not mentioned by name—added]
But again, rest assured, we’re using our resources to put the person (and/or persons) that murdered Liberty German and Abigail Williams into our jail here in Carroll County.
Carrie Timmons:
The first time I heard it, it wasn’t cleaned up yet. It was at the press conference. I don’t know if anybody really remembers, but it was the very first time that recording was played. You couldn’t really understand what he was saying, and it was all “ruhhruhh”—like computerized sounding. And then, they were able to clean it up and suddenly it was DTH. And it was like, what the hell is he saying? Like why?
And I remember thinking it doesn’t even sound, like, urgent. He’s not yelling; he’s calm. Still to this day, it’s so eerie sounding to me. But I didn’t recognize it. It didn’t sound like anybody I knew—didn’t sound like anybody I had ever heard before or a phrase I had ever even heard anybody use before. Like, normally we like—just go—it wouldn’t like, it didn’t make any sense. So, that was weird.
I still wish—there are times I still wish I could hear more. But I don’t know how much more there is that I could handle hearing, so I don’t—I try not to think of what is actually going on when he says those words.
Anna Williams:
Every time something like that would happen I would hold my breath because part of you wants this over, and you hope you know who’s in that picture. And you hope you recognize that voice, and then the other part of you hopes you don’t. Because the idea that the person is most likely here or has lived here or somebody that I may have crossed paths with—whether I know who this person was or not or I knew them. It makes you ill, and that is probably one of the hardest things to move through life on. Until this person is caught, that every day there’s a potential of them crossing your path.
Erica Gibson:
She [Libby] knew something was up. She knew she had to do something. She probably didn’t even have service. So, she thought of the next thing she could, and I don’t think a lot of people do think of that. She didn’t know exactly what was gonna happen. I don’t even know if she knew the guy was bad.
Ya know, sometimes we joke around. Abby, um, when Abby was out with her mom and stuff, she would just take a photo and be like—joke around and be like, “that’s your boyfriend!” Or, you know, just joking around. And so like, it could’ve started out like as a joke like that.
DTH:
You guys would like, what? Text that to each other or Snapchatted?
Erica Gibson:
Well, um, we did those jokes on the volleyball bus mostly. Like she’d take a photo and then she’d show me. We never sent them, but like it could’ve been something like that, ya know. Like, knowing them—they’re skitzy people—always so goofy that she’s like, “oh, that person scares me!” Or stuff like that and that’s how she would act.
But I think it may’ve—they thought maybe it would’ve been funny or something like that. I don’t think that they ever thought—cause they get scared but to me it’s like a joking scared. So, that guy musta really, I don’t know—scared them to do that.
Kelsi German:
I don’t think that I knew the voice or the person that was in the video. But watching the video, I was overwhelmed that my sister was able to do something like that, and that she was able to know that something was gonna happen. It was also very sad to know that she knew that something was going to happen—enough to take this video.
Um, so, so many emotions are hitting me at once watching it that I don’t really know exactly what I was feeling. I just know that I was overwhelmed with so many emotions that I kind of—it was just shocking to me. I knew she was smart—I know she is smart, um, and she does that kind of stuff all the time, but it was crazy to think she was able to know before something happened—that she needed to do something.
DTH:
She’s been called a hero for that.
Kelsi German:
Yeah, um, and she is but I definitely think both of them are. I don’t think that one would’ve left the other. So, to me, Abby was my hero because she stayed with my sister. And, um, I love them both for that.
DTH:
Do you think that Libby took that video on purpose because she was concerned?
Carrie Timmons:
I think she got him in the video because she was concerned, but I don’t think that was her initial purpose in taking the video. Because it was my understanding that they were out there taking pictures and video anyway.
And like i’m learning now with younger girls, with Snapchat and all this other video social media, they do that crap all the time. Even if they’re just picking up a rock, they’re still taking a little video of it—which now I’m very thankful for but I didn’t get it at the time.
So, I think now, looking back, she probably wasn’t exactly videoing him. I think she left it on and made sure it was recording because she knew something was not right, but I don’t think that was the initial purpose. I could be completely wrong though; I haven’t seen or heard the entire video.
Mike Patty:
And I’ve been asked the question, ya know, that-that would’ve been Libby capturing that information. Ya know, and if things would’ve been different and the girls wouldn’t have been murdered, she would’ve come home and said “papaw, look at this”. This guy was out here really acting weird, what a strange guy, ya know. And would’ve shared that with me. I, I know that’s what she would’ve done and said this is a real weirdo out there. Of course, then we would’ve said no more trails, ya know.
That’s why she would’ve captured that. No doubt in mind, she would’ve come home and said look at this weirdo.
DTH:
Do you recognize anything in her video or the still they’ve released?
Mike Patty:
Unfortunately, no. I wish I could and I wish I could recognize that voice. I wish I could. I’ve racked my brain millions of times, a thousands and thousands and thousands of times. Um, still even to this day—thinking something’s gonna trigger and I’m gonna say, “yeah, I“—but no, I don’t.
@JnRyan (sorry my quote disappeared some how). 
Nah- more like a team effort!
This has been an area of interest for me since the beginning of the case. I believe I have mentioned that I spent several weeks sleuthing (or attempting to sleuth) juveniles in IN and surrounding States, after the last PC. I absolutely was able to find each of these juvenile delinquents who were charged with violent crimes and/or were charged as adults fairly easy. I could not find much at all (even with a bit of inside searching capabilities), for misdemeanors. I have no doubt BG has a history of voyeurism, exposing himself in public, and (possibly) stalking young women. These records would be unavailable to LE without a court order. Because it was reported early on that all sex offenders had been interviewed, it is my belief LE suspects the crime was sexually motivated.
After the second sketch was released, I began to really consider it a possibility the perpetrator is in the 18-35 age range. I fully believe BG had to have strength and stamina to pull off this crime. Personally, I can't imagine a middle-aged, out-of-shape man being capable of "getting the heck out of dodge" so quickly after he just exerted so much energy murdering two young girls. Especially if one or both of them fought like hell to get away. Nope, no way (in my mind) this can be a man who borders on the line of being a senior citizen (55+). IMO, this was some sniveling jock of some sort who thinks he is bigger and stronger than everyone else. A snot-nosed entitled brat kind of guy.
Nah- more like a team effort!
This has been an area of interest for me since the beginning of the case. I believe I have mentioned that I spent several weeks sleuthing (or attempting to sleuth) juveniles in IN and surrounding States, after the last PC. I absolutely was able to find each of these juvenile delinquents who were charged with violent crimes and/or were charged as adults fairly easy. I could not find much at all (even with a bit of inside searching capabilities), for misdemeanors. I have no doubt BG has a history of voyeurism, exposing himself in public, and (possibly) stalking young women. These records would be unavailable to LE without a court order. Because it was reported early on that all sex offenders had been interviewed, it is my belief LE suspects the crime was sexually motivated.
After the second sketch was released, I began to really consider it a possibility the perpetrator is in the 18-35 age range. I fully believe BG had to have strength and stamina to pull off this crime. Personally, I can't imagine a middle-aged, out-of-shape man being capable of "getting the heck out of dodge" so quickly after he just exerted so much energy murdering two young girls. Especially if one or both of them fought like hell to get away. Nope, no way (in my mind) this can be a man who borders on the line of being a senior citizen (55+). IMO, this was some sniveling jock of some sort who thinks he is bigger and stronger than everyone else. A snot-nosed entitled brat kind of guy.
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StarryStarryNight
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This is a VERY interesting perspective. I like it very much. A truly fascinating thought.
cujenn81
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I forgot to mention that Abby's mother is correct about the audio -- the clip played at the February 22nd PC was VERY POOR in quality compared to the clip released with the word "guys" in a later PC.
I was stunned to hear the poor quality clip when they replayed that bit from the PC in this episode. It's clearly obvious the microphone was obstructed at the time (and I'm guessing that her phone was hidden in a coat pocket).
An audio expert really worked up some wizardry magic on this clean up.
D
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Two birds with one stone. Perhaps.
RSBM
Thank you (a million times) for transcribing all of these podcasts. It is such a great refresher. I hear (or read) something new each time. Here are some thoughts- I'd love to hear what you all might think!
Sgt Kim Riley
"It was scary. Uh, it was, uh, I felt so sad there was nothing I could do. But, that—that’s the way it is, you know.
Unfortunately, we’re not there for kids all the time, and sometimes they—bad things happen. And I guess that’s the only way I can explain it."
> I really wish he had finished his sentence (bolded above). And sometimes they.... they what? What did these girls do? Was there an action (on their part) that makes LE believe that's why something bad happened? For some reason, this statement takes me back to one of the first PC's. "Know what your children are doing on the internet".
In combination with:
Dave Burston
Is it reasonable to think—that’s an area—one of two things happened. This was a chance encounter--that’s possible. Don’t think it’s likely but it’s possible. Or that person knew that they were going to be there. That’s possible, as well. Those are things we’re looking into.
>I can't help but wonder why LE believes it is unlikely a chance encounter. Is this where the internet may come in?
Sheriff Tobe Leazenby:
Libby to have that mindset to be able to do what she did. In my mind, I thought, you know, she’s helping here. She’s telling us something. And it--obviously, as time went along, we found out what she was telling us.
> What did they find out? Did LE learn something from tips that further explained portions of Libby's video? What was she telling "them"?
Erica Gibson
"when Abby was out with her mom and stuff, she would just take a photo and be like—joke around and be like, “that’s your boyfriend!”
>Abby had a phone. She may not have had it at the bridge but she definitely had access to one. Is there crucial evidence contained on this phone?
The other thing that really stands out to me, is how each of the investigators call the video scary. I cannot imagine how it must feel to watch the video, listen to the audio, witness the emotions the girls were experiencing and being helpless to stop it. Despite the fact the case has not been solved, I do not believe it is due to lack of effort. I think, as Captain Burston stated "This is all very complicated, very involved."
margarita25
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Wow just wow, @cujenn81
THANK YOU for your incredible work at time.
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION
THANK YOU for your incredible work at time.
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION
I have to point out that I don't think Sgt. Riley said "know what your children are doing on the internet." That's maybe how his words have been interpreted since the beginning of the case because many presumed that there had to be some connection between Snapchat and the murders. However, I believe this was his actual quote from the press conference:
"I think people need to be cautious and careful. Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what's going on in their lives. That's the most important thing I can say at this point in time."
I would also point out that former information officer Dave Bursten, the source of the "I don't think it's likely" quote about the likelihood of a chance encounter (he no longer works for the ISP), has always seemed to have a divergence of opinion from some other authorities as to whether the girls' killer knew they would be there or they encountered him by random chance. I would note that his observations about the likelihood of a random encounter came just a few days into the investigation; counter this to the more recent interview with DA Robert Ives where he said he sees absolutely no reason that anyone would know the girls would be in that location that day.
The producers of the Down the Hill podcast reached out to Bursten at his new job to talk about the comment and he told them he didn't want talk about the case; however, he did want to clarify that that particular comment was his own opinion based on the info at that time, not necessarily that of the ISP.
Edited to say: I don't know if the ISP observes this practice, but in some jurisdictions the public information officer (aka Bursten and Riley's jobs) are ones where the LEO performing the job is purposely not given all the information that the investigators know. And the reason for this, is so that they do not inadvertently leak sensitive info about the case during the course of their duties. No idea if this could contribute to the fact that Bursten's opinions sometimes seem at odds with others, like Ives'.
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