Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Yemelyan]

I couldn't agree more. I think sometimes the hardest part about submitting a tip is knowing when the information you have is relevant. I really thought the information I submitted was relevant. After submitting the same tip 5 times over 2 years I guess LE did not think it was relevant. Hopefully the right tip is in the nearly 50,00o they have already received in this case.

I mentioned the Holly Piirainen child abduction/murder case here within the last couple of days - the detective investigating her case wrote that the name of the person who is eventually found to be responsible comes up in the first week of the investigation in 78% of cases. So one could hope that either in the first tidal wave of tips or in the early stage of the investigation, the name of the Delphi killer was somehow in the mix.

What you have to also hope for is that there isn't some extenuating circumstance that causes the right name or tip to be rejected. The cold case abduction/murder of Kelly Ann Prosser in Columbus, Ohio was solved within the last year using genetic genealogy but the name of her murderer was actually tipped early in the investigation. Unfortunately his name was spelled wrong in the case files (either the tipster didn't know his exact name or a mistake was made). So he was never seriously considered as a person of interest even though he had child sexual assault priors. If something like this occurred in the Delphi case, let's hope a review can uncover it.

 

[stattlich1]

Just saw this. Goes to show you that a criminal can travel quite a distance to commit a crime, right?

LANCASTER, Pa. —

A man from Lancaster is charged with kidnapping a 13-year-old girl from Indiana after pursuing her online.

Police say Andrew Howland drove through several states to pick-up the girl Tuesday morning

This Santa works out of 'call center' to bring holiday joy

 

[K.jill]

Have any of you sleuths studied handwriting
analysis? Or read a book about it?

 

[cujenn81]

Have any of you sleuths studied handwriting
analysis? Or read a book about it?

I haven’t but would really like to — so if anyone has a recommendation, please share!

ETA: I have read three books about statement analysis / lie detection, though.

1. Liespotting by Pamela Mayer
2. Spy the Lie by Philip Houston, Michael Floyd, and Susan Carnicero (three former CIA officers)
3. You Can’t Lie to Me by Janine Driver

 

[K.jill]

I haven’t but would really like to — so if anyone has a recommendation, please share!

Sex, Lies and Handwriting by Michelle Dresbold is very good. It is an interesting read on a subject that can be kind of boring.

 

[Maplesyrup]

I have wondered about something over the years. Maybe the girls were together at school/after school for some activity and went down an empty hallway on their way to an exit door and happened upon an adult educator/administrator/janitor/gym teacher in close proximity to, or doing something to...another young female student. Did this adult spot Libby and Abby, recognize them, and the two girls ran out of the building quickly. This individual may have decided to try to follow them on their day off school to see if any opportunity presented itself. Anyone caught molesting a child/minor in that type of a setting risks losing their credentials and certainly their job, in addition to the public humiliation, disgrace and time in prison. Silencing the girls quickly would stop them from speaking and the girl who was molested would be too terrified to speak up, realizing she could be next. Just my tired mind thinking tonight. Maybe I'm crazy but I do keep wondering about an adult in the school setting silencing them in order to save their own skin. All IMHO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have wondered about something over the years. Maybe the girls were together at school/after school for some activity and went down an empty hallway on their way to an exit door and happened upon an adult educator/administrator/janitor/gym teacher in close proximity to, or doing something to...another young female student. Did this adult spot Libby and Abby, recognize them, and the two girls ran out of the building quickly. This individual may have decided to try to follow them on their day off school to see if any opportunity presented itself. Anyone caught molesting a child/minor in that type of a setting risks losing their credentials and certainly their job, in addition to the public humiliation, disgrace and time in prison. Silencing the girls quickly would stop them from speaking and the girl who was molested would be too terrified to speak up, realizing she could be next. Just my tired mind thinking tonight. Maybe I'm crazy but I do keep wondering about an adult in the school setting silencing them in order to save their own skin. All IMHO.

Can't have happened on Monday, because the day was off from school. If it happened earlier (days before weekend), it could have been far too late for such a person to silence the one or two girl/s. They might have had told this secret to their friends already, and the secret wouldn't have been a secret any longer. - So my line of thoughts.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I have wondered about something over the years. Maybe the girls were together at school/after school for some activity and went down an empty hallway on their way to an exit door and happened upon an adult educator/administrator/janitor/gym teacher in close proximity to, or doing something to...another young female student. Did this adult spot Libby and Abby, recognize them, and the

I have wondered about something over the years. Maybe the girls were together at school/after school for some activity and went down an empty hallway on their way to an exit door and happened upon an adult educator/administrator/janitor/gym teacher in close proximity to, or doing something to...another young female student. Did this adult spot Libby and Abby, recognize them, and the two girls ran out of the building quickly. This individual may have decided to try to follow them on their day off school to see if any opportunity presented itself. Anyone caught molesting a child/minor in that type of a setting risks losing their credentials and certainly their job, in addition to the public humiliation, disgrace and time in prison. Silencing the girls quickly would stop them from speaking and the girl who was molested would be too terrified to speak up, realizing she could be next. Just my tired mind thinking tonight. Maybe I'm crazy but I do keep wondering about an adult in the school setting silencing them in order to save their own skin. All IMHO.

If the killer was anybody from school, I would think the girls would have recognized him coming across the bridge or at least one person in Delphi would have recognized him. Just my thoughts.

 

[minazoe]

maybe one of their friends had noticed something around that time, like being followed or someone parking around their haunts.

there is something about this case that the police feel it might not be a random selection of two victims and that it is
a premeditated murder that involved planning.

something in the crime scene or in the audio from the phone.

I will tell you something...teenagers can be cruel and sick. I know someone back in the day who went to a friends house, was lured into the backyard under the pretense of a "surprise", and when she got into the yard a girl twice her size was waiting to beat her to a pulp..while several guys cheered her on. ( I am not implying teens did this to Abby and Libby). but because things like this do happen, police have to rule out everyone.

wonder if they have more than one DNA profile.. ( seems like it )

I can see why they won't rule out a second person is involved in this...I wonder if they have any footprints? probably destroyed in all the searching.

also it seems like the girls did a lot of running around across the water etc. mOO

 

[Trebor5591]

I have wondered about something over the years. Maybe the girls were together at school/after school for some activity and went down an empty hallway on their way to an exit door and happened upon an adult educator/administrator/janitor/gym teacher in close proximity to, or doing something to...another young female student. Did this adult spot Libby and Abby, recognize them, and the two girls ran out of the building quickly.

In this day and age, I feel certain if the girls saw a school employee molesting a student, they would report same to their parents quickly.

 

[Trebor5591]

Just saw this. Goes to show you that a criminal can travel quite a distance to commit a crime, right?

LANCASTER, Pa. —

A man from Lancaster is charged with kidnapping a 13-year-old girl from Indiana after pursuing her online.

Police say Andrew Howland drove through several states to pick-up the girl Tuesday morning

This Santa works out of 'call center' to bring holiday joy

The link you provided is not about the news story you posted.

 

[stattlich1]

The link you provided is not about the news story you posted.

LANCASTER: Man kidnapped 13-year-old Indiana girl, police say

 

[Vivyinsect]

I have to stick with what LE has stated. This killer was familiar with the area because he was from Delphi, or visited Delphi regularly, or even currently lives in Delphi, or nearby.

He may not have had a job at the time. OR, he may have worked night shift. As a side thought, I worked in a school district. Not sure about Delphi schools, but we always put out a calendar for the entire year, and snow makeup days were built in to and clearly indicated on the school calendar

I've thought maybe he's MHMR. That could be enough justification for a close family member to possibly want to protect him from the legal system.

I've read LE isn't certain if there is one, or two, or more involved. I'm not certain either.

Why's he tell those girls 'down the hill' anyway? Somebody down there waiting for them? Maybe not. Then why? I propose because he had familiarity with the area, and knew right where he was going.

I don't think he boarded a plane afterward. But I DO think he parked at that cemetery, and simply walked up that hill, got in his car, and drove away. There's all kinds of country roads that would take him away from the scene.

Indeed, I DO think he was likely laying in wait on previous occasions for an opportune moment. I can see him parking at the cemetery, walking under cover of the woods, perched at some high point, viewing a portion of the trail, on numerous occasions prior to this fateful day.

At times, however, I also think he could have targeted one, or both girls, to protect himself from some unknown to us irreparable harm that one, or both, of the girls might cause him. Pure speculation of course.

He COULD be a serial killer. Sure, it may come to the light some day, that this guy is responsible for other, maybe numerous, maybe many, murders around the country. It's not like THAT hasn't happened before right?

Still watching, and waiting and hoping to see an arrest some day.

The specific time of year he chose happens to be when most leaf fall has settled into the soil and spring is just barely making its show. The trees would still be bare, much of the undergrowth and weeds still dormant. I agree with so much of what you think. I also think he could have committed similar crimes of lesser severity with the “escape plan” fleshed out in previous years.

 

[BigTexas]

Simply put, with the obvious limited information that we, the public, have...it is a conundrum. There will be several limitations on how far we can go in the speculation.
It is nearing Christmas, and I just want to say that my thoughts and prayers are with Libby's and Abby's families.

 

[MistyWaters]

About snow days and maybe stattlich1 (re- quoted post #1095) has the answer because I’m confused over how snow days could be built into a school calendar?

My understanding is there’s X number of days allotted for schools to be closed due to heavy snowfall. But if that doesn’t happen, if the school isn’t required to close for those X days, then the school is closed the same number in lieu. I thought I recalled BP explaining this was how it worked.

So if that’s correct, for example if it were to snow Feb 1st and that was the last of the number of snow days allotted, I can’t see how it could’ve been known well in advance the school would be closed Feb 13th for a snow day?

 

[cujenn81]

About snow days and maybe stattlich1 (re- quoted post #1095) has the answer because I’m confused over how snow days could be built into a school calendar?

My understanding is there’s X number of days allotted for schools to be closed due to heavy snowfall. But if that doesn’t happen, if the school isn’t required to close for those X days, then the school is closed the same number in lieu. I thought I recalled BP explaining this was how it worked.

So if that’s correct, for example if it were to snow Feb 1st and that was the last of the number of snow days allotted, I can’t see how it could’ve been known well in advance the school would be closed Feb 13th for a snow day?

I think maybe the OP meant built-in makeup snow days. I don’t live in IN but I work for a school district in SC. Although it rarely snows here, the schools have to close during hurricane evacuations because several are used as public shelters. We have built-in makeup days for inclement weather, and they are often around a holiday (such as Good Friday or the day before Thanksgiving). If we didn’t need to close the schools because of a hurricane, we’ll take the designated makeup day off instead.

 

[Jax49]

About snow days and maybe stattlich1 (re- quoted post #1095) has the answer because I’m confused over how snow days could be built into a school calendar?

My understanding is there’s X number of days allotted for schools to be closed due to heavy snowfall. But if that doesn’t happen, if the school isn’t required to close for those X days, then the school is closed the same number in lieu. I thought I recalled BP explaining this was how it worked.

So if that’s correct, for example if it were to snow Feb 1st and that was the last of the number of snow days allotted, I can’t see how it could’ve been known well in advance the school would be closed Feb 13th for a snow day?

If I remember correctly, the "snow days" were on the calendar (Friday & Monday) and would be regular school days or days off depending on the weather that year.

We also discussed there being a sign outside the school which announced that school would be out those two days. moo

 

[stattlich1]

Some times snow makeup days are actually indicated as such on a School calendar. Other times, they are simply days that are 'built in' to the Spring vacation, or other vacation days on the schedule. Meaning, if Spring vacation is to be 7 school days on the Calendar, it might wind up only being 5, because two of the days are used to make up for two snow days prior to that.

Delphi School district actually still has their old calendars on their website.

Calendar

This is Feb. 2017.

 

[Yemelyan]

About snow days and maybe stattlich1 (re- quoted post #1095) has the answer because I’m confused over how snow days could be built into a school calendar?

My understanding is there’s X number of days allotted for schools to be closed due to heavy snowfall. But if that doesn’t happen, if the school isn’t required to close for those X days, then the school is closed the same number in lieu. I thought I recalled BP explaining this was how it worked.

So if that’s correct, for example if it were to snow Feb 1st and that was the last of the number of snow days allotted, I can’t see how it could’ve been known well in advance the school would be closed Feb 13th for a snow day?

I'm going to explain this horribly. In the US, each state may be slightly different but school committees are required by law to schedule a certain number of days of instruction. In my state it's 185. Schools are required to physically be open a certain number of days as well. In my state it's 180 days. So there are five days that can be taken off depending on any emergency, and usually that's weather related.

In order to not have the official school calendar change its ending date (or taking away holiday vacation days) every time a snow day has to be taken, the school committee may build in snow days into the calendar. How it's typically done is, there are a certain number of built in days allotted between, say, December and April 1st 1st and as you reach each milestone if in the calendar, if days off haven't been needed for emergency, the school closes on the built-in day. This ensures the students get the 185 days of instruction and the school year ends on time. If a snow day WAS needed, the school is open on the scheduled makeup day.

So it would have been known to anyone who has access to the official school calendar (every school provides a link on their official website) well in advance that Monday Feb. 13th was a potential makeup day. If you were reasonably paying attention and knew it was a mild winter without a lot of school closures announced, you could reasonably assume that a makeup day might be taken that day as scheduled, having not been needed earlier.

 

[MistyWaters]

Some times snow makeup days are actually indicated as such on a School calendar. Other times, they are simply days that are 'built in' to the Spring vacation, or other vacation days on the schedule. Meaning, if Spring vacation is to be 7 school days on the Calendar, it might wind up only being 5, because two of the days are used to make up for two snow days prior to that.

Delphi School district actually still has their old calendars on their website.

Calendar

This is Feb. 2017.

View attachment 274617

Thanks, I get it now!