Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[minazoe]

they had 2 hours for this show with a lot of arresting film work and filler..why not bring up more of what occurred during the first few years? maybe it is not legal to include some of these things with an on going investigation. Like all the POI's they had in the beginning..the bomb threat...the red herrings..the internet...etc. They have prints so this person is not someone who can be identified by fingerprints? Don't all cops have to have finger prints on file?

so yeah..prob outside of actual police work..maybe someone who couldn't get in. Hmmm. mOO

 

[stattlich1]

so yeah..prob outside of actual police work..maybe someone who couldn't get in. Hmmm. mOO

Bone to pick? No issue with the girls. Issue with Delphi, or Delphi LE, or Delphi legal system? Commit the crime, send 'em on a wild goose chase, sit back and laugh at them?

Give them a crime scene that's bizarre. Plant false evidence.

I'm just not able to shake the perfect entrance to that area from the cemetery. Could be 100% wrong, but it just makes sense to me.

Like I said not too long ago, I don't think anyone even saw him, other than A & L.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Thanks to @Yemelyan for posting the article.

The person who called in the bomb threat was never caught.
There had been another bomb threat called into IP in 2016, but that person was caught.

Could be that someone was trying to 'help' direct LE to IP for investigation or they were throwing a 'red herring' into the mix.... or someone was really trying hard to distract LE from following up on leads from the 'down the hill' presser, which took place prior to the bomb threat that day.

Either way, it could have put a giant strain on police resources, having both of those events occur on the same day, hours apart.

LE publicly stated afterwards that the bomb threat was unconnected to Abby and Libby's case.

I have my doubts.

All JMO

How do they know the bomb threat was unconnected to the murders if they never caught who called in the bomb threat?

 

[minazoe]

Psychopaths can become very resentful and psychotic from rejection . Look at what happened after Hitler was not accepted at the art university in Vienna.

I could see this as a part of the profile...but the other part is sexual and so while he may be enjoying the show with the LE, the underlying motive is sexual..his anger maybe the fuel.

so you have more than one motive or issue possibly..

the Evansdale murders were almost perfect if not perfect entirely. They have absolutely zip...this must be most enjoyable for the one who did the crimes...wonder if there is a meat processing facility in Evansdale. mOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I totally understand the jurisdictional issues. But as far as I know, and I may be wrong, there is nothing that prevents Indiana LE from opening their files and information on this case to completely independent investigators except their egos and adding some name redactions perhaps. I’m not talking about GBI here.
I think it comes down to whether they really want to solve it. I believe they are sincere in wanting that but then they should do what it takes to solve it. Not one person would expect them to release absolutely everything. Everybody understands that, so they should stop acting like it’s all or nothing. Do what you need to do to solve the stupid case! Ask for outside help if you have to! Release some information to the public that you insist you need their help! It’s so frustrating.
Sorry if it seems like I’m yelling. I’m not. It just looks like it. Well, maybe I’m yelling a little bit. But not at y’all. Y’all are great.

 

[MistyWaters]

They are saying on the HLN show there is not really more audio? And nothing more on the video that would be earth shattering. Not as long of video as we’d think. It’s not a few more minutes.

Fingerprints were collected. Not known if killers. They HAVE DNA. They don’t know if it is the killer’s DNA.

So disappointingly, confirmation that no conclusive fingerprints or DNA is known to be left by the unidentified killer. I can understand why this case is very difficult to solve, other than somebody with direct knowledge coming forward to LE, unfortunately. Heartbreaking.

 

[somequestions]

The HLN two part series was very well made.
The only thing that struck me in part two was just how focused on “local” they were. Not just Delphi and the surrounding area, a hundred mile radius or so, but right there in Delphi...right there...that’s where the killer is. Then how come nobody recognizes him? Multiple people ought to recognize him in a town that size if you are focusing down that narrow. If one person is too afraid to turn him in, there should be 9 others who recognize him. I don’t get it.
Watching it was frustrating and completely removed any hope I had that this will be solved anytime soon. The LE they talked to looked totally deflated and tired. This is a cold cold case. LE doesn’t want to say it but it is. It almost makes me want to cry how botched up this case is. Abby and Libby deserve so much better.
Sorry for the rant.

If you want to kill kids you go to a school or a playground where kids are likely to be. You do not take the time and effort it takes to do this unless there is a reason. I think the reason is this person is very concerned about witnesses. This is what the crime scene location says to me. Maybe I am overanalyzing it, but that is what I think. And where was this person's vehicle parked at? Even if parked at the cemetery wouldn't someone walk straight to the Monon High Bridge from the cemetery? Yet on Liberty German's video, the man in it, is clearly coming towards them from the northwest side of the bridge.

And there are other strange things. For example, the creek water was right next to the crime scene location and the place is desolate with few people around. But I also read that maybe some clothing was found in the creek. So clothing was moved to the creek, but not the bodies? Does the killer have something wrong with his hands? Maybe the killer is not that experienced, but I wonder why he did not move the bodies into the water to get rid of evidence?

So those are the questions I think about this case with the information that is known. I agree that it is strange that there seem to be no witnesses who can identify this man, but maybe that is why he chose the Monon High Bridge trail area to begin with?

 

[sandy_80]

I totally understand the jurisdictional issues. But as far as I know, and I may be wrong, there is nothing that prevents Indiana LE from opening their files and information on this case to completely independent investigators except their egos and adding some name redactions perhaps. I’m not talking about GBI here.
I think it comes down to whether they really want to solve it. I believe they are sincere in wanting that but then they should do what it takes to solve it. Not one person would expect them to release absolutely everything. Everybody understands that, so they should stop acting like it’s all or nothing. Do what you need to do to solve the stupid case! Ask for outside help if you have to! Release some information to the public that you insist you need their help! It’s so frustrating.
Sorry if it seems like I’m yelling. I’m not. It just looks like it. Well, maybe I’m yelling a little bit. But not at y’all. Y’all are great.

right.. taking part is not the same as heading an investigation.. take the murder of egypt covington as an ex.. arrests were made shortly after case being handed over.. however indiana doesn't have a good record in murder cases though

 

[Peppery]

I understand wanting to hold back as much as possible in hopes of going to trial and getting a conviction, but what is the risk of that?

LE is risking BG striking again instead of risking a few fake confessions or more confusion in what I believe is already a chaotic, cold case.

IMO their time is far better spent investigating false confessions than investigating another murder.

Im sure they have profilers and experts who know exactly how likely it is for BG to just call LE and confess. And I think that chance is zero. And the chance of him killing again is much higher.

LE’s goal needs to be changed from conviction-oriented to prevention-oriented. Look, I want justice for Abby and Libby as much as anyone. Hell I have a child exactly their age; it could’ve been her. But they need to get this guy off the streets and prevent more murders. The best way to honor Abby and Libby and serve the public is to prevent more killings. IMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I totally understand the jurisdictional issues. But as far as I know, and I may be wrong, there is nothing that prevents Indiana LE from opening their files and information on this case to completely independent investigators except their egos and adding some name redactions perhaps. I’m not talking about GBI here.
I think it comes down to whether they really want to solve it. I believe they are sincere in wanting that but then they should do what it takes to solve it. Not one person would expect them to release absolutely everything. Everybody understands that, so they should stop acting like it’s all or nothing. Do what you need to do to solve the stupid case! Ask for outside help if you have to! Release some information to the public that you insist you need their help! It’s so frustrating.
Sorry if it seems like I’m yelling. I’m not. It just looks like it. Well, maybe I’m yelling a little bit. But not at y’all. Y’all are great.

Since they've evidently already asked for and received one independent review (from GBI) I'd hope that they'd continue to be open to other reviews by outside agencies.

The original question from @Betty P asked if another agency could arrest and try the case in a different jurisdiction. My reply was mainly to show that specific suggestion is likely unconstitutional.

 

[Tealgrove]

I haven't watched the second part of Down The Hill yet however, I have been on this thread since day 1. Unfortunately.

I hate to throw shade at LE, I really do but I'm not sure who's really driving the bus here.

You had Carroll County. You had ISP, the FBI. How did this investigation get so mired down?

Leadership or lack thereof? Egos?

Who decided to put out that second portrait? That move and that Presser was odd. It was blatantly directed at the killer. No question in my mind. So is the FBI still involved? Was that their decision?

I can't UNSEE the first portrait. I can't see the younger face in that video so I have become unable to even think past the first portrait.

I wonder how many others are in the same boat?

Who is leading the investigation now?

This guy should be behind bars by now. We have his walk, we have his voice and you know that LE has more. I can't believe they can't release something else to jog memories.

I blather on but this case makes me angry and the handling of it makes me even angrier. This was NOT a perfect crime. So what happened?

MOO

 

[somequestions]

The statement I will always remember from this case was made at the April 2019 press conference:

"We believe you are hiding in plain sight."

And the irony is that maybe it is the exact opposite.

 

[Algo214]

Who decided to put out that second portrait? That move and that Presser was odd. It was blatantly directed at the killer. No question in my mind. So is the FBI still involved? Was that their decision?

I can't UNSEE the first portrait. I can't see the younger face in that video so I have become unable to even think past the first portrait.

Sniped for focus and BBM.

From the research I have done (this probably won't come as any surprise to anyone here), the sketches do share many features and the differences might be explained by the witnesses that gave their accounts to the artist(s?).
This is my own anecdotal experience, now that I'm pushing 30 I see 18 year olds and they look like babies, 2-3 years ago I felt much closer to them than I do now, it's like my perception of the age of people younger than me changed by a decade in 3 years (18 year olds looked 23 when I was 25-26, now they look as if they were 15).
I probably could've worded it better but all this to say that both sketches are quite likely the same person, but the witnesses may differ in age or general perception of themselves and others.
All JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I understand wanting to hold back as much as possible in hopes of going to trial and getting a conviction, but what is the risk of that?

LE is risking BG striking again instead of risking a few fake confessions or more confusion in what I believe is already a chaotic, cold case.

IMO their time is far better spent investigating false confessions than investigating another murder.

Im sure they have profilers and experts who know exactly how likely it is for BG to just call LE and confess. And I think that chance is zero. And the chance of him killing again is much higher.

LE’s goal needs to be changed from conviction-oriented to prevention-oriented. Look, I want justice for Abby and Libby as much as anyone. Hell I have a child exactly their age; it could’ve been her. But they need to get this guy off the streets and prevent more murders. The best way to honor Abby and Libby and serve the public is to prevent more killings. IMO

If releasing more information destroys any chance of a future conviction, that’s a sure indication this case will never be solved so that doesn’t prevent the killer from striking again either. I can just imagine the huge public outrage toward LE over a failed trial if evidence is disallowed at trial after it was publicly shared in response to public outcry.

BBM

Delphi deaths, 4 years later
“Leazenby also said that he knows some of the investigative tactics used aren’t always what the public wants to hear or see, highlighting in particular the public’s quest for authorities to release more information in the case or to already have the unidentified man behind bars.

To that notion, the sheriff blamed Hollywood.

“What people see on TV or in movies,” he said, “it’s automatically assumed that real crime scene investigations are the same. And there are some similarities, but obviously we can’t always get these cases solved in 50 minutes.

“And in terms of releasing information, I’m going to resort back to what I said early on, and that was going to the courtroom,” Leazenby continued. “Our prosecuting attorney only gets one opportunity at prosecuting and possibly getting a conviction. So if we were to release what we feel are vital pieces of information related to the investigation that should be strictly reserved for the courtroom, there’s a very good chance that a solid defense attorney is going to move to have that suppressed because that evidence will have already been in the public’s eye.”....”

 

[Hastings21]

I think from the beginning LE wasn't concerned that it was a murder but felt it was just a missing persons case or that 2 teenage girls were out past curfew. This is why there were people tramping all over evidence and crime scene. This is also why they didn't search all night long. Then I am sure there are "ego" issues with whose jurisdiction it is in and what agency is going to handle it once they realized it was much bigger than they first thought.

One new theory that is running through my mind after running down several rabbit holes over the years is that perhaps some young man or teen killed the girls and that maybe his father has helped cover up evidence & crime scene. Maybe his family is well respected in the area and just maybe they are giving him a good alibi. JMO!

 

[Tealgrove]

Sniped for focus and BBM.

From the research I have done (this probably won't come as any surprise to anyone here), the sketches do share many features and the differences might be explained by the witnesses that gave their accounts to the artist(s?).
This is my own anecdotal experience, now that I'm pushing 30 I see 18 year olds and they look like babies, 2-3 years ago I felt much closer to them than I do now, it's like my perception of the age of people younger than me changed by a decade in 3 years (18 year olds looked 23 when I was 25-26, now they look as if they were 15).
I probably could've worded it better but all this to say that both sketches are quite likely the same person, but the witnesses may differ in age or general perception of themselves and others.
All JMO.

Thank you for this. That makes so much sense.

 

[Tealgrove]

I think from the beginning LE wasn't concerned that it was a murder but felt it was just a missing persons case or that 2 teenage girls were out past curfew. This is why there were people tramping all over evidence and crime scene. This is also why they didn't search all night long. Then I am sure there are "ego" issues with whose jurisdiction it is in and what agency is going to handle it once they realized it was much bigger than they first thought.

One new theory that is running through my mind after running down several rabbit holes over the years is that perhaps some young man or teen killed the girls and that maybe his father has helped cover up evidence & crime scene. Maybe his family is well respected in the area and just maybe they are giving him a good alibi. JMO!

Since the second portrait was unveiled I have felt the same. I believe there is family that are aware and have gone into protection mode.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

At 30-32 seconds in, while talking about that parked vehicle that was "abandoned" between the hours of 1-5 Feb 13th, 2017, watch ISP Carter's reaction to either something he sees, something he's saying or what appears to me to be a combination of thise two. Right when he speaks the words,
"Please contact the officers at the command post...".
Anyone else get a gut feeling from that? I'm just being curious and cautious.

I can only find this particular video from WIS NEWS on this link, hope it doesn't matter that it's Facebook. My apologies if I'm in error.
WIS TV on Facebook Watch

 

[Yemelyan]

If releasing more information destroys any chance of a future conviction, that’s a sure indication this case will never be solved so that doesn’t prevent the killer from striking again either. I can just imagine the huge public outrage toward LE over a failed trial if evidence is disallowed at trial after it was publicly shared in response to public outcry.

BBM

Delphi deaths, 4 years later
“Leazenby also said that he knows some of the investigative tactics used aren’t always what the public wants to hear or see, highlighting in particular the public’s quest for authorities to release more information in the case or to already have the unidentified man behind bars.

To that notion, the sheriff blamed Hollywood.

“What people see on TV or in movies,” he said, “it’s automatically assumed that real crime scene investigations are the same. And there are some similarities, but obviously we can’t always get these cases solved in 50 minutes.

“And in terms of releasing information, I’m going to resort back to what I said early on, and that was going to the courtroom,” Leazenby continued. “Our prosecuting attorney only gets one opportunity at prosecuting and possibly getting a conviction. So if we were to release what we feel are vital pieces of information related to the investigation that should be strictly reserved for the courtroom, there’s a very good chance that a solid defense attorney is going to move to have that suppressed because that evidence will have already been in the public’s eye.”....”

Excellent points, IMO.

I wanted to see if there was ever a case where LE came out and said "we now think we've released too much info to ever get a conviction." For obvious reasons you wouldn't expect many authorities to say that in public even if they privately believed it was true.

However, I did find this example fairly quickly: DA: Too much information released during sisters' murder investigation

In that case, the media reported that the victims had been doused in bleach to destroy evidence and reported on the specific investigative tactics that led to the suspect's capture. I thought the DA in that case explained his perspective very well on why that was highly destructive to an otherwise open and shut case.

I think the Delphi DA and LE fear a similar situation. This is bound to be a highly emotional trial situation from the perspective of the public who have been very invested in this case.

 

[TL4S]

I think it's hopeful they have a fingerprint, even if smudged. TL says there are usually fingerprints at a crime scene, unless the perp wears gloves. Of course they can't definitevely say the fingerprint belongs to the killer if they don't know who the killer is. That's fair. But I get the sense that BG did not wear gloves, which could have been helpful in finding DNA. The killer not wearing gloves possibly shows an element of impulsivity. Jmo